RUMOR: Norm Hitzges: Chiefs interested in trading LJ to Cowboys?

[Vintage]

Trades.

I've backed that blanket statement up so far.

I've always hated statements like that.

Yeah, it hasn't happened much (if at all). Doesn't mean it will always be like that.

I remember a few years ago (ok, maybe more like 4-5) at basketballboards.net there was an argument going about how you needed a Superstar in the league to win a championship given the recent history of NBA players (Lakers with Kobe/Shaq, Spurs with Duncan/Bulls with MJ/Pip, Houston with Hakeem/Clyde, Pistons with Isiah, Lakers with Magic, Celtics with Bird, etc)....

Always that argument was brought up...."you need a superstar."

Then the Pistons won. In 5.

That argument got changed that night to something else.

Just because its a trend doesn't mean it will cease being bucked at some point. If Larry Johnson can make us better, you do the trade if its fair. Damn the history of whats happened to RBs in trades. Those RB's were in different circumstances, with different teams, and different players.

 

[Alexander]

Always that argument was brought up...."you need a superstar."

Then the Pistons won. In 5.

That argument got changed that night to something else.

It's the same thing now.

"You need a player's coach".

This argument will change too.

Just because its a trend doesn't mean it will cease being bucked at some point. If Larry Johnson can make us better, you do the trade if its fair. Damn the history of whats happened to RBs in trades. Those RB's were in different circumstances, with different teams, and different players.

There are a number of different reasons why this trade might not be a good thing. This "history" should not be a real reason. There are plenty of other more legitimate ones to be concerned with.

 

[Hostile]

I've always hated statements like that.

Yeah, it hasn't happened much (if at all). Doesn't mean it will always be like that.

I remember a few years ago (ok, maybe more like 4-5) at basketballboards.net there was an argument going about how you needed a Superstar in the league to win a championship given the recent history of NBA players (Lakers with Kobe/Shaq, Spurs with Duncan/Bulls with MJ/Pip, Houston with Hakeem/Clyde, Pistons with Isiah, Lakers with Magic, Celtics with Bird, etc)....

Always that argument was brought up...."you need a superstar."

Then the Pistons won. In 5.

That argument got changed that night to something else.

Just because its a trend doesn't mean it will cease being bucked at some point. If Larry Johnson can make us better, you do the trade if its fair. Damn the history of whats happened to RBs in trades. Those RB's were in different circumstances, with different teams, and different players.

Okay, so you hate statements like that. Am I supposed to apologize?

I admit, I play the averages. If that makes me a horrible person or impossible to have a discussion with so be it.

The fact remains no one can prove to me LJ makes us better and one of the reasons is that RBs break down and trading for RBs who have been heavily used usually gets you a year or 2 of solid but unspectacular play. If that's my fault then I accept all blame for it.

Consider this my apology if it helps.

 

[Hostile]

There are a number of different reasons why this trade might not be a good thing. This "history" should not be a real reason. There are plenty of other more legitimate ones to be concerned with.

I believe I have brought those up too, but people have been more willing to focus on trying to manufacture a RB trade that has been magical.

 

[28 Joker]

Go back and look and see what McFadden did to LSU's defense. I've watched this guy, and he' a legit franchise back. He's running straight through defenses in the SEC. How can you do that without serious speed and wiggle?

 

[peplaw06]

Yet here the acrimony with LJ is so bad the Chiefs are willing...................


Do the math.

Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I don't think the Chiefs have a bevy of RBs available to carry the ball around 400 times and run for over 1700 yards each year. It basically goes to a disgruntled player, whom they also don't think is signable.

One thing I do rarely see in the NFL is a team trading someone they don't think they will be able to re-sign when they become free agents. Baseball teams do this all the time. Indy did it with Faulk. IIRC Buffalo did it with McGahee.

I think there's a difference when talking about trades where an older guy who is on the downside of his career is being traded for picks, a la Herschel, etc., and a guy who's still early in his career being traded because of signability and/or getting a legitimate proven player in return. The Skins pulled one off. Portis has been solid for them... he's had injury problems, but has been good when he has been healthy.

I think the most common type of trade is the former because, like I said, teams usually don't want to trade players who can be productive unless there's something else going on... i.e. a threatened holdout.

What if Emmitt had been the subject of trade rumors when he was holding out, or threatening it? I think most teams would have jumped at that chance. Is LJ Emmitt? Of course not... at least not at this point. But he's had two stellar seasons (one behind a bad line) in his first two full years as a starter.

I would ABSOLUTELY do a MB3 for LJ straight up... I would probably do LJ for MB3 and a 3rd or lower... And I would strongly consider LJ for MB3 and a 2nd. Anything more, then no dice.

 

[theogt]

Go back and look and see what McFadden did to LSU's defense. I've watched this guy, and he' a legit franchise back. He's running straight through defenses in the SEC. How can you do that without serious speed and wiggle?

1. There's no guarantee he'll be a franchise back no matter what he did to LSU.

2. There's no guarantee we'll even be in a position to get him.

 

[BouncingCheese]

Too many carries in his young career and he is 28 already.

Sure, he didn't take that many carries/pounding on his body early on, when he was spelling my favorite player of all time in Priest Holmes, but he took a BOATLOAD of them the past two seasons. You can never tell what is going to happen. He is a big, fast talented back but I still get nervous by players like him and Jamal Anderson, guys who have a few great seasons and then just break down. Clinton Portis has fallen off alot and the guy isn't even 28 yet... you can never tell.

Besides, he stands upright too much. He loves to punish would-be tacklers but I see Eddie George all over this guy, from playing style to how his career is going to end up. One day the wheels are gonna fall off and it is going to be sooner than we think. Eddie retired at 31 for chrissakes.

 

[peplaw06]

Too many carries in his young career and he is 28 already.

Sure, he didn't take that many carries/pounding on his body early on, when he was spelling my favorite player of all time in Priest Holmes, but he took a BOATLOAD of them the past two seasons. You can never tell what is going to happen. He is a big, fast talented back but I still get nervous by players like him and Jamal Anderson, guys who have a few great seasons and then just break down. Clinton Portis has fallen off alot and the guy isn't even 28 yet... you can never tell.

I would love it if Portis was done, but I don't think he is. He's just coming off his first season with substantial injury issues.

Jamal Anderson had one of the worst knee injuries possible. That's a freak thing, and can never be predicted. A non-issue.

Besides, he stands upright too much. He loves to punish would-be tacklers but I see Eddie George all over this guy, from playing style to how his career is going to end up. One day the wheels are gonna fall off and it is going to be sooner than we think. Eddie retired at 31 for chrissakes.

Apples and oranges. Eddie retired at 31, but started at 22. LJ started for all intents and purposes at 25 or 26.

 

[Hostile]

Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances. I don't think the Chiefs have a bevy of RBs available to carry the ball around 400 times and run for over 1700 yards each year. It basically goes to a disgruntled player, whom they also don't think is signable.

I've brought up his salary demands repeatedly as a reason why I think it's a bad idea.

One thing I do rarely see in the NFL is a team trading someone they don't think they will be able to re-sign when they become free agents. Baseball teams do this all the time. Indy did it with Faulk. IIRC Buffalo did it with McGahee.

Harder in the NFL because of the Cap.

I think there's a difference when talking about trades where an older guy who is on the downside of his career is being traded for picks, a la Herschel, etc., and a guy who's still early in his career being traded because of signability and/or getting a legitimate proven player in return. The Skins pulled one off. Portis has been solid for them... he's had injury problems, but has been good when he has been healthy.

I don't think Portis has been as good as he was in Denver. JMO.

I think the most common type of trade is the former because, like I said, teams usually don't want to trade players who can be productive unless there's something else going on... i.e. a threatened holdout.

I just think your odds of getting damaged goods goes way up for RBs. They take an incredible pounding.

What if Emmitt had been the subject of trade rumors when he was holding out, or threatening it? I think most teams would have jumped at that chance. Is LJ Emmitt? Of course not... at least not at this point. But he's had two stellar seasons (one behind a bad line) in his first two full years as a starter.

I have said on several occasions that if this was LT the story is different. I have recognized there are exceptions.

I would ABSOLUTELY do a MB3 for LJ straight up... I would probably do LJ for MB3 and a 3rd or lower... And I would strongly consider LJ for MB3 and a 2nd. Anything more, then no dice.

Cool. I respect this, but I don't agree.

 

[Alexander]

2. There's no guarantee we'll even be in a position to get him.

This fact keeps escaping people.

Don't ask me why.

 

[peplaw06]

I've brought up his salary demands repeatedly as a reason why I think it's a bad idea.

Harder in the NFL because of the Cap.

I don't think Portis has been as good as he was in Denver. JMO.

I just think your odds of getting damaged goods goes way up for RBs. They take an incredible pounding.

I have said on several occasions that if this was LT the story is different. I have recognized there are exceptions.

Cool. I respect this, but I don't agree.

I completely get what you're saying. I would also jump at LT. LT is unbelievable, but IMO LJ is a close second... and as a pure runner, probably better. LT has 6 seasons on his legs and one over 1700 yards. LJ has 2 and 2 over 1700 yards.

LJ is not the receiving threat that LT is, and that is the difference between the two. But me, if we could sign him for #2 RB in the league money, with 2 great seasons on his legs, I do it.

I know... I've already said that. Agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Hostile]

I completely get what you're saying. I would also jump at LT. LT is unbelievable, but IMO LJ is a close second... and as a pure runner, probably better. LT has 6 seasons on his legs and one over 1700 yards. LJ has 2 and 2 over 1700 yards.

LJ is not the receiving threat that LT is, and that is the difference between the two. But me, if we could sign him for #2 RB in the league money, with 2 great seasons on his legs, I do it.

I know... I've already said that. Agree to disagree I guess.

I don't think anyone is close to LT. JMO.

 

[SultanOfSix]

1. There's no guarantee he'll be a franchise back no matter what he did to LSU.

2. There's no guarantee we'll even be in a position to get him.

Well, there's also no guarantee that LJ will produce here like he did elsewhere either.

People should only make guarantees if they can replace the product. In football, that is never guaranteed.

 

[BouncingCheese]

I say don't touch him.

He is 28 years old. ( I don't really care if he didn't touch the ball much early on in his career) Per this past season (minus playoffs) he carried the ball 416 times and caught the ball 41, and the season before that he carried the ball 336 times and caught the ball 33 times. In two seasons the guy has touched the ball 826 times, not to mention that he stands upright when he goes through the hole and is tackled. LJ could break down as soon as next season. So could any player, but him moreso by taking all those touches.

He wants a long-term deal with big money. Assuming we even have a chance at him, all those aforementioned things should (I hope to god) deter us from picking him up.

 

[28 Joker]

I believe Cleveland's pick will be in the top 10. Their defense will not stop anyone this year. Jamal Lewis, another big pounder, appears to be done after that 2000 yard season.

Dallas may be in a position to move down a little and still draft McFadden. Arkansas is losing three starting o-linemen. Their quarterback can't do anything but throw the ball deep. He can't complete an intermediate pass. The elite defenses in the SEC are going to gang up on the run and make running the football difficult for McFadden and Felix Jones. Arkansas' coach is on the hot seat, and they are probably looking at losses when they play Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, and LSU. Also, Arkansas lost their two best players on defense.

Why does this matter? There isn't going to be any Heisman Trophy. McFadden will probably see his stock fall some. He has a bizar off the field incident that teams will look into. McFadden should go about where Adrian Peterson went in the draft. If he is in striking range, we could trade down a little or bundle picks to get him. This guy is a speed demon, and he is big and strong. He might blow it up at the combine and make my points null and void. Only time will tell. He can fly.

Don't under-estimate this player. Hershel Walker, Bo Jackson, Emmitt Smith, Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Fred Taylor, and Terrell Davis all played in the SEC. McFadden is a monster; he is the most dynamic back to play in the SEC since Walker, Jackson, and Smith.

I like the production of Barber and Jones, and they don't cost a mint. Hostile makes logical or solid points. Barber can punish those defenses in the 4th quarter just as much as Larry Johnson can. Remember the Carolina and Atlanta games. We have a very young team that is learning new systems on both sides of the ball. Dallas doesn't need to take the short-term gratification route by adding Larry Johnson. Dallas just needs to stick to their plan and keep improving on both sides of the ball. We are in the NFC for crying out loud.

Johnson takes too many hits. (See: Jamal Lewis) For Dallas, LJ would be like a good looking used car. It might run good for 3 or 4 year, but it will break down sooner than later. New England won three Super Bowls without a back in Larry Johnson's class. He isn't worth the money. However, if I can draft McFadden, he's a Cowboy. He has freakish talent, and he will be young. McFadden runs to daylight just like Tomlinson does, and he will avoid many hits because of his pure speed. The defenses in the SEC couldn't stop him. You have to watch the elite defenses in the SEC play to understand the magnitude of what McFadden has done to them. If McFadden is within the Cowboys' reach, Jerry Jones will do everything he can to put the star on his helmet. Mark it down!

 

[theogt]

Well, there's also no guarantee that LJ will produce here like he did elsewhere either.

People should only make guarantees if they can replace the product. In football, that is never guaranteed.

I'll pull a Rumsfeld. There are the known knowns, the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns. It's a known known that LJ can produce in the NFL.

 

[SultanOfSix]

I'll pull a Rumsfeld. There are the known knowns, the known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns. It's a known known that LJ can produce in the NFL.

LOL. I wouldn't be quoting Rumsfield. After all it was a known known that their were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq too, right?

 

[theogt]

LOL. I wouldn't be quoting Rumsfield. After all it was a known known that their were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq too, right?

Was there an unknown knowns category? If not there should have been.

 

[BouncingCheese]

I believe Cleveland's pick will be in the top 10. Their defense will not stop anyone this year. Jamal Lewis, another big pounder, appears to be done after that 2000 yard season.

Dallas may be in a position to move down a little and still draft McFadden. Arkansas is losing three starting o-linemen. Their quarterback can't do anything but throw the ball deep. He can't complete an intermediate pass. The elite defenses in the SEC are going to gang up on the run and make running the football difficult for McFadden and Felix Jones. Arkansas' coach is on the hot seat, and they are probably looking at losses when they play Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, and LSU. Also, Arkansas lost their two best players on defense.

Why does this matter? There isn't going to be any Heisman Trophy. McFadden will probably see his stock fall some. He has a bizar off the field incident that teams will look into. McFadden should go about where Adrian Peterson went in the draft. If he is in striking range, we could trade down a little or bundle picks to get him. This guy is a speed demon, and he is big and strong. He might blow it up at the combine and make my points null and void. Only time will tell. He can fly.

Don't under-estimate this player. Hershel Walker, Bo Jackson, Emmitt Smith, Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Fred Taylor, and Terrell Davis all played in the SEC. McFadden is a monster; he is the most dynamic back to play in the SEC since Walker, Jackson, and Smith.

I like the production of Barber and Jones, and they don't cost a mint. Hostile makes logical or solid points. Barber can punish those defenses in the 4th quarter just as much as Larry Johnson can. Remember the Carolina and Atlanta games. We have a very young team that is learning new systems on both sides of the ball. Dallas doesn't need to take the short-term gratification route by adding Larry Johnson. Dallas just needs to stick to their plan and keep improving on both sides of the ball. We are in the NFC for crying out loud.

Johnson takes too many hits. (See: Jamal Lewis) For Dallas, LJ would be like a good looking used car. It might run good for 3 or 4 year, but it will break down sooner than later. New England won three Super Bowls without a back in Larry Johnson's class. He isn't worth the money. However, if I can draft McFadden, he's a Cowboy. He has freakish talent, and he will be young. McFadden runs to daylight just like Tomlinson does, and he will avoid many hits because of his pure speed. The defenses in the SEC couldn't stop him. You have to watch the elite defenses in the SEC play to understand the magnitude of what McFadden has done to them. If McFadden is within the Cowboys' reach, Jerry Jones will do everything he can to put the star on his helmet. Mark it down!

Great Post.

You really can't go wrong with SEC defenses (except for maybe Jarvis Moss; God am I glad we didn't pick that weakling) or Running Backs. Definitely SEC recievers suck for the most part, but not the Defenses or RB's. I am not College Football officionado yet I have weekly proof of the talent whenever I turn on an SEC game.

Look at these #'s.. I don't want to risk it.

He is 28 years old. ( I don't really care if he didn't touch the ball much early on in his career) Per this past season (minus playoffs) he carried the ball 416 times and caught the ball 41, and the season before that he carried the ball 336 times and caught the ball 33 times. In two seasons the guy has touched the ball 826 times, not to mention that he stands upright when he goes through the hole and is tackled. LJ could break down as soon as next season. So could any player, but him moreso by taking all those touches