Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[JohnnyTheFox]

I have a little experience with the M-72 LAW and the Dragon M47, comparing them to the Javelin is like comparing a spear to a gatling gun. I certainly wouldn't feel safe in a T80 or a T90 knowing this was on the battlefield, unless i had plenty of infantry/small armored vehicle/air support.

 

[Sarek]

Ukrainian leadership really needs to start considering the art of compromise. Putin will not give Ukraine back it's costal land or the land on Russia's border. Half of Ukraine is gone and is Russian land now. The only question that remains for Ukraine is if they want to keep the western half before it all becomes rubble. Ukrainian leadership can save what's left or they can lose everything including some of the lives of it's citizens. The war is almost over, it's time for serious peace talks now while there's still a chance.

 

[Dodger12]

Ukrainian leadership really needs to start considering the art of compromise. Putin will not give Ukraine back it's costal land or the land on Russia's border. Half of Ukraine is gone and is Russian land now. The only question that remains for Ukraine is if they want to keep the western half before it all becomes rubble. Ukrainian leadership can save what's left or they can lose everything including some of the lives of it's citizens. The war is almost over, it's time for serious peace talks now while there's still a chance.

The Ukrainians compromised when they gained independence and gave up their nukes with a guarantee of safety. A few years later, Russia annexed Crimea. They compromised on Crimea and now Russia has invaded again. I don't think any further compromise is in the cards.

It's a complicated issue for sure but as hard as it is for the Ukrainians to hold out against a far superior force, it's also hard for the Russians to keep and hold the land they occupy, especially under heavy world sanctions. Everyone has painted themselves in a corner and now has to try and negotiate with an egomaniacal mad man who rules even his own country with an iron fist.

 

[Sarek]

The Ukrainians compromised when they gained independence and gave up their nukes with a guarantee of safety. A few years later, Russia annexed Crimea. They compromised on Crimea and now Russia has invaded again. I don't think any further compromise is in the cards.

It's a complicated issue for sure but as hard as it is for the Ukrainians to hold out against a far superior force, it's also hard for the Russians to keep and hold the land they occupy, especially under heavy world sanctions. Everyone has painted themselves in a corner and now has to try and negotiate with an egomaniacal mad man who rules even his own country with an iron fist.

Putin is a criminal, no doubt about that. Putin will not just leave while those buildings are standing. There must be serious peace talks and Ukraine needs to accept the fact that they lost before there can be serious peace talks. The only question they should now ask themselves is how much more are they willing to lose. There is no valid reason for the US to send 10 Billion to Ukraine when this war is still going on and while Ukraine has very little chance of winning it.

It's time for new borders to be drawn up again and for peace to happen.

 

[John813]

Ukrainian leadership really needs to start considering the art of compromise. Putin will not give Ukraine back it's costal land or the land on Russia's border. Half of Ukraine is gone and is Russian land now. The only question that remains for Ukraine is if they want to keep the western half before it all becomes rubble. Ukrainian leadership can save what's left or they can lose everything including some of the lives of it's citizens. The war is almost over, it's time for serious peace talks now while there's still a chance.

If everything I know about Ukraine and their people, I think they will rather die than live under a puppet while Putin is their true "President".

There's no compromising with Putin. I truly believe he wants to rebuild the USSR. Having even a reduced "free" Ukraine on his boarder is still a threat to him.

 

[Sarek]

If everything I know about Ukraine and their people, I think they will rather die than live under a puppet while Putin is their true "President".

There's no compromising with Putin. I truly believe he wants to rebuild the USSR. Having even a reduced "free" Ukraine on his boarder is still a threat to him.

Then i fear more buildings will fall, cities will burn, and people will die. Bravery is an excellent trait, but that bravery didn't prevent Russia from advancing and taking. The advancing and taking will continue with even harsher tactics if there is no peace. When this spirals completely out of control the world will be wishing it could come back to this moment today, but it will be too late then.

 

[Reality]

Ukrainian leadership really needs to start considering the art of compromise. Putin will not give Ukraine back it's costal land or the land on Russia's border. Half of Ukraine is gone and is Russian land now. The only question that remains for Ukraine is if they want to keep the western half before it all becomes rubble. Ukrainian leadership can save what's left or they can lose everything including some of the lives of it's citizens. The war is almost over, it's time for serious peace talks now while there's still a chance.

You really have very little understanding of what is going on. Putin does not just want Eastern Ukraine. He had control of Eastern Ukraine before he invaded. He wants all of Ukraine and then he will want other former Soviet republics.

He wanted Crimea, he invaded and got Crimea and the world stood by and did nothing. That empowered him into thinking that no one would do anything if he went after all of Ukraine. If he were to get control of Ukraine, he would then think and do the same to other countries he wants back under Russian control.

 

[Reality]

Then i fear more buildings will fall, cities will burn, and people will die. Bravery is an excellent trait, but that bravery didn't prevent Russia from advancing and taking. The advancing and taking will continue with even harsher tactics if there is no peace. When this spirals completely out of control the world will be wishing it could come back to this moment today, but it will be too late then.

If a country invades your country, you do not just give up and hand it over. It is war. Of course buildings are going to be destroyed and people are going to die. That is all because of Putin and Russia's actions.

 

[Sarek]

You really have very little understanding of what is going on. Putin does not just want Eastern Ukraine. He had control of Eastern Ukraine before he invaded. He wants all of Ukraine and then he will want other former Soviet republics.

He wanted Crimea, he invaded and got Crimea and the world stood by and did nothing. That empowered him into thinking that no one would do anything if he went after all of Ukraine. If he were to get control of Ukraine, he would then think and do the same to other countries he wants back under Russian control.

Your the one who doesn’t understand that Ukraine is losing and will lose this war. Your allowing your emotions to get the best of you. It’s time for peace and you should be on board with that, otherwise some of that blood will be on your hands. peace now!

 

[Dodger12]

Your the one who doesn’t understand that Ukraine is losing and will lose this war. Your allowing your emotions to get the best of you. It’s time for peace and you should be on board with that, otherwise some of that blood will be on your hands. peace now!

Winning and losing is a relative term(s) in these types of conflicts. The Ukrainians will never accept living under Russia's totalitarian regime and Russia can not continue to hold a large swath of Ukrainian ground indefinitely. It's almost a no win situation on both sides. I agree that the Ukraine can't hold out forever. But the people will also not accept Russian rule and a puppet government.

And I'm not sure the Russian people can accept what is currently going on in their country. Protesters are being locked up by the thousands, the media has been blacked out and banned from reporting anything other than the official party line and their sons are dying in a land for a conflict they don't want. Part of me believes that this will be settled by the Russian people and their military.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Putin is a criminal, no doubt about that. Putin will not just leave while those buildings are standing. There must be serious peace talks and Ukraine needs to accept the fact that they lost before there can be serious peace talks. The only question they should now ask themselves is how much more are they willing to lose. There is no valid reason for the US to send 10 Billion to Ukraine when this war is still going on and while Ukraine has very little chance of winning it.

It's time for new borders to be drawn up again and for peace to happen.

Your approach smacks of Neville Chamberlain.

It didn't work then and appeasement for a dictator won't work now.

 

[John813]

Then i fear more buildings will fall, cities will burn, and people will die. Bravery is an excellent trait, but that bravery didn't prevent Russia from advancing and taking. The advancing and taking will continue with even harsher tactics if there is no peace. When this spirals completely out of control the world will be wishing it could come back to this moment today, but it will be too late then.

Ukraine may ultimately lose the war, but it's not stupid to fight for your way of life. Even if peace could be had, it won't stop Putin from wanting to acquire more in the short or long term.
He's been taking land for over a decade now. Unless you believe the best way to deal with evil is to give them what they want and be naive to think it won't embolden them to take more.

Your the one who doesn’t understand that Ukraine is losing and will lose this war. Your allowing your emotions to get the best of you. It’s time for peace and you should be on board with that, otherwise some of that blood will be on your hands. peace now!

Your emotions are getting the best of you as well. I got two family members by marriage over there in Kyiv. The men don't have body armor due to shortages but have a helmet and a AK. The oldest is in his 50's and has health issues and the youngest is his son. His family and my wife's family are beyond stressed but no one wants to see Ukraine surrender and become a puppet nation. They are proud of their independence.

Putin won't stop acquiring former USSR countries. Peace with Russia is an illusion as long as Putin is in power.

Unfortunately, Ukraine is a punching bag while the West wants to help but not really get their hands too dirty.

 

[Sarek]

Your approach smacks of Neville Chamberlain.

It didn't work then and appeasement for a dictator won't work now.

Ukraine will still lose no matter what it smells like. Fighting a losing war just for fighting sake is silly and costly. Time for peace.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Putin wants to control Ukraine, point, blank period.

Giving in to his desires would be idiocy.

He is proposing now to basically keep Ukraine from joining Nato or the EU so he can control them. This is not about two small parts of the Ukraine with Russian Sepratists. If that was the case he would grab those two territories and stop.

He does not want any more members of the EU or Nato in previous USSR lands. He wans total control.

If Ukraine just gives up and does what he wants they will never have freedom and always be under his thumb.

If there is something you fight for no matter what it is freedom and country.

By the logic of this just give it up to save some lives...I guess England should have just gave up against the Germans back in the day.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ukraine will still lose no matter what it smells like. Fighting a losing war just for fighting sake is silly and costly. Time for peace.

Did Afghanistan lose to the USSR?

 

[Sarek]

Did Afghanistan lose to the USSR?

Much more difficult terrain in Afghanistan. This is Europe, Russia/Moscow is right next door, much easier overall situation. I know people are upset but peace is the best course of action now. I hope in the coming days it will become evident to you.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Much more difficult terrain in Afghanistan. This is Europe, Russia/Moscow is right next door, much easier overall situation. I know people are upset but peace is the best course of action now. I hope in the coming days it will become evident to you.

Peace at the cost of oppression with the continuing threat of more intrusions on Russia's neighbors.

Got it!

 

[MaineBoy]

Putin is a criminal, no doubt about that. Putin will not just leave while those buildings are standing. There must be serious peace talks and Ukraine needs to accept the fact that they lost before there can be serious peace talks. The only question they should now ask themselves is how much more are they willing to lose. There is no valid reason for the US to send 10 Billion to Ukraine when this war is still going on and while Ukraine has very little chance of winning it.

It's time for new borders to be drawn up again and for peace to happen.

A Putin Peace ? Until he decides to invade another ex soviet republic ? Putin’s goal is to rebuild the Soviet Union so I think he’d love your compromise idea.

 

[Reality]

 

[MaineBoy]

Winning and losing is a relative term(s) in these types of conflicts. The Ukrainians will never accept living under Russia's totalitarian regime and Russia can not continue to hold a large swath of Ukrainian ground indefinitely. It's almost a no win situation on both sides. I agree that the Ukraine can't hold out forever. But the people will also not accept Russian rule and a puppet government.

And I'm not sure the Russian people can accept what is currently going on in their country. Protesters are being locked up by the thousands, the media has been blacked out and banned from reporting anything other than the official party line and their sons are dying in a land for a conflict they don't want. Part of me believes that this will be settled by the Russian people and their military.

Unless NATO intervenes, and they won’t, the only way Putin is taken down is by the Russian people. They need to feel the consequences of the leadership they have. History is full of episodes where the people revolted or overthrew their dictators. There’s an old adage that says “the people get the leadership they deserve.” Let the Russian people suffer the consequences and maybe they will rise up. At least their children and families are not being massacred and bombed by an invading army.