Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[Sarek]

Putin must be aggravated by the cancelation of Russian energy to the US/UK. With jet's from Poland being delivered soon it seems that if Putin is going to escalate to severe methods it will be very soon. The West is basically telling Putin do what you want we're not scared, if Putin doesn't create complete destruction then Putin will lose face and his threats will carry no more weight. The dog may indeed be in a corner now.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

I don't see any difference in what Putin is doing to Ukraine and what Ukraine did to Donetsk and Luhansk.

 

[Sarek]

I don't see any difference in what Putin is doing to Ukraine and what Ukraine did to Donetsk and Luhansk.

That's a interesting position. Care to explain a little. I'm not a 100% sure of who's guilty of what and so on.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

With jet's from Poland being delivered soon .

Well, about that...

The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the President and the Government, are ready to deploy – immediately and free of charge – all their MIG-29 jets to the Ramstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America.

At the same time, Poland requests the United States to provide us with used aircraft with corresponding operational capabilities. Poland is ready to immediately establish the conditions of purchase of the planes.

The Polish Government also requests other NATO Allies – owners of MIG-29 jets – to act in the same vein.

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/st...ry-of-state-on-providing-airplanes-to-ukraine

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

That's a interesting position. Care to explain a little. I'm not a 100% sure of who's guilty of what and so on.

Well, Ukraine is separating from the Russian Federation, so Putin invaded. When Donetsk and Luhansk tried to separate from Ukraine, Ukraine invaded them.

 

[Sarek]

Well, Ukraine is separating from the Russian Federation, so Putin invaded. When Donetsk and Luhansk tried to separate from Ukraine, Ukraine invaded them.

Peace talks need to start up again. Too much blood.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

Peace talks need to start up again. Too much blood.

Agreed, Putin laid out his terms, Ukraine should abide.

 

[Montanalo]

Well, Ukraine is separating from the Russian Federation, so Putin invaded. When Donetsk and Luhansk tried to separate from Ukraine, Ukraine invaded them.

Technically, Ukraine did not invade Donetsk and Luhansk; they are legally part of modern day Ukraine. That aside, we have heard rather discouraging news about the treatment of ethnic Russians in these areas by Ukrainians (we have family in Russia, Ukraine and Moldova). I'll be honest, though, it is difficult authenticate these claims of mistreatment.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

Technically, Ukraine did not invade Donetsk and Luhansk; they are legally part of modern day Ukraine.

Once they declared their independence they were no longer part of Ukraine, just as Ukraine was no longer part of the Russian Federation after Ukraine declared their independence.

 

[Montanalo]

Once they declared their independence they were no longer part of Ukraine, just as Ukraine was no longer part of the Russian Federation after Ukraine declared their independence.

I hear you, but legally, that section of Ukraine did not have the right to secede. Not trying to argue... just passing on my understanding of the situation.

It has parallels with Transnistria in eastern Moldova, Ossetia in north Georgia and Abkkasia in Western Georgia... enclaves of ethnic Russians want to secede and rejoin Russia.

 

[Sarek]

These conversations run deep. Who’s right, who’s wrong, people shouldn’t be dying either way. Need serious peace talks.

 

[Reality]

These conversations run deep. Who’s right, who’s wrong, people shouldn’t be dying either way. Need serious peace talks.

Russia needs to seriously get out of Ukraine. Leave now! Peace now!

 

[Montanalo]

These conversations run deep. Who’s right, who’s wrong, people shouldn’t be dying either way. Need serious peace talks.

Just curious... is Povar the English version of повар or "cook" or am I over-thinking?

 

[Sarek]

Russia needs to seriously get out of Ukraine. Leave now! Peace now!

Yes i agree, but that's unrealistic. Your statement seems rooted in fantasy.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

I hear you, but legally, that section of Ukraine did not have the right to secede.

Not sure who sets the rules on that. The Donbas region did not agree with the overthrow of the Ukraine government in 2014, so I suppose it could be said they felt like any Ukrainian they held fealty to no longer existed. I'd say if they wanted to leave let them go, it wasn't worth a war.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

Russia needs to seriously get out of Ukraine. Leave now! Peace now!

Well, I'm guessing Zelensky is regretting playing tough with Putin, never a good idea to poke a bear. Talking about joining NATO and hinting at acquiring nuclear weapons wasn't a good idea in retrospect.

Russia is said to have laid out their terms, Ukraine to recognize the Donbas and Crimea as separate nations, to enshrine in their constitution they won't join NATO. The NATO thing seems to be a big ask but NATO doesn't seem eager for them to join anyway. The other two seem to already exist, just a matter of Ukraine recognizing it officially.

Seems a small price for peace. Reports are Zelensky is open to the terms, we'll see where it goes from here.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

 

[MichaelWinicki]

 

[Sarek]

Looks like the west is just as confused as Putin. No jets now? Sloppy war on both sides.

 

[Cowpolk]

Looks like the west is just as confused as Putin. No jets now? Sloppy war on both sides.

False