Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

DallasEast said:
How realistic is it to believe peace will ever happen if an aggressor will continue directing his invasion force to kill and pillage despite any peace overtures extended by the Ukrainians?
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Ukraine needs to understand the situation from Putin’s position. Ukraine needs to be willing to seriously negotiate. The longer Ukraine refuses peace the higher the price will get.
 
Pentagon just threw Ukraine under the bus. Kirby said the jets wouldn’t make much difference. Live now cnn 340pm est.
 
Sarek said:
Ukraine needs to understand the situation from Putin’s position. Ukraine needs to be willing to seriously negotiate. The longer Ukraine refuses peace the higher the price will get.
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That is certainly putting the shoe on the other person's foot and allowing Putin to have his calk and eat it too. Your message is humane but pointless.

Literally, all signs indicate the Ukrainians will fight if-and-until Putin directs his military to use overwhelming force a.k.a. nuclear, which would likely force an unilateral surrender. The only logical alternative for less bloodshed is for the guy holding the best hand (e.g. Putin) to fold. Hopefully, the utter devastation of his country's economy will push Putin to either think atypically or motivate someone else in Russia to make a power play that succeeds.

Wishful thinking is honorable but intangible in changing real life affairs. The Ukrainians are in it to win it. This is not a repeat of Afghanistan. Putin is molding another Vietnam in his own image. Countless deaths to come are resting completely in the palms of his hands.
 
DallasEast said:
That is certainly putting the shoe on the other person's foot and allowing Putin to have his calk and eat it too. Your message is humane but pointless.

Literally, all signs indicate the Ukrainians will fight if-and-until Putin directs his military to use overwhelming force a.k.a. nuclear, which would likely force an unilateral surrender. The only logical alternative for less bloodshed is for the guy holding the best hand (e.g. Putin) to fold. Hopefully, the utter devastation of his country's economy will push Putin to either think atypically or motivate someone else in Russia to make a power play that succeeds.

Wishful thinking is honorable but intangible in changing real life affairs. The Ukrainians are in it to win it. This is not a repeat of Afghanistan. Putin is molding another Vietnam in his own image. Countless deaths to come are resting completely in the palms of his hands.
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Can’t be humane and pointless, the point is humane. There’s a better chance Putin is killed by Russians before Putin just leaves Ukraine. Some parts of Ukraine are his already, he’s not leaving those places.
 
Oddly I don't seem to read from a few here that peace could be achieved if he commanded his army to quit shelling civilians, firing at nuclear sites and just leave. It could be just that easy...Putin, leave those people alone and get out. That would be peace and that would be humane but I don;t see some here saying that, they seem to think it is Ukraine that has to give it up to putin to get peace.
 
Some of the land in question is Russian according to Putin. Some of the land is Ukrainian according to Ukrainians. Maps get redrawn all the time.

The question here is can Ukraine win all it's lost land back including Crimea? Looks like the answer is no as long as Putin is alive and in charge of Russia.

Ok so what's next? Keep fighting to keep what you haven't lost yet? Make peace to keep what you have left?

If they keep fighting most of what Ukraine has left will be destroyed, more death, and chances for something to get way out of hand.
 
I don't really care what happens, as long as the US doesn't get involved. Ukraine isn't worth one drop of American blood or one dollar of American money. Our own country has enough trouble and we need to tend to it instead of trying to run all over the world being boss.
 
Putin failed to learn the lesson that the only way to ensure you will not be occupying another country, which drains enormous resources, is to not try to topple its government in the first place.

Sadly, this blunder has been repeated throughout history.

Putin will eventually realize that he can’t afford such a costly endeavor, particularly when the majority of his foreign reserves have been frozen.

The Russian economy is far too small to support a prolonged war effort against a brave and heroic Ukrainian resistance.
 
JJHLH1 said:
a brave and heroic Ukrainian resistance
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Were they being brave and heroic when they burnt those unarmed protestors alive in Odessa? Or shelled civilians in Donbas? Just wondering our definition of brave and heroic.

It's not as simple as Ukraine good, Russia bad. There really aren't many good guys involved.
 
Fritsch_the_cat said:
Were they being brave and heroic when they burnt those unarmed protestors alive in Odessa? Or shelled civilians in Donbas? Just wondering our definition of brave and heroic.

It's not as simple as Ukraine good, Russia bad. There really aren't many good guys involved.
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Has nothing to do with what is happening right now
 
Looks like ceasefire and peace talks failed again. I don’t think they should talk again until both sides are serious. Neither side should complain about however this all plays out now. I think this war is going to get a lot more serious very soon.
 
BrAinPaiNt said:
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Watching that video, it just seems like complete chaos on the Russian side. Those poor souls are just sitting ducks, as are the civilians the Russians are targeting. The more I see these types of videos, the more I believe the Russian casualties are pretty large for a superior invading force.
 
Dodger12 said:
Watching that video, it just seems like complete chaos on the Russian side. Those poor souls are just sitting ducks, as are the civilians the Russians are targeting. The more I see these types of videos, the more I believe the Russian casualties are pretty large for a superior invading force.
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I do believe they really are having supply and logistics issues.
At first I thought it was a little propaganda but you are seeing more videos of abandoned russian military vehicles. Videos of Russian Soldiers on the side of the road out of gas, russian ships asking for fuel. A video of some russian soldiers breaking into stores to get food.

Really shocked at such a problem. Smacks of very poor leadership, planning and basic military process.

For instance, when having a long convoy of vehicles that are stationary or parked...they should not be in a single line like that. We would often have to stop for a staging area or to wait for something we would go to a what we called a herringbone formation where you would stagger the vehicles on each side of the road so it would make it a tad harder for possible strikes. Although nothing was cooler than doing that and seeing A-10 flying over doing missions.
 
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