Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[Montanalo]

Even after **** Germany captured Ukraine in early WWII, the partisan efforts behind the German front line was widespread and destructive.

I sometimes wonder if the current generation (post glasnost) has the same resolve as those that grew up in the Stalinist period. I know my Russian in-laws would have (and, many did) fought to the death to protect Mother Russia. Their grandkids, not so much.

 

[rags747]

No, there are gun shops throughout Ukraine. The Ukrainian Parliament also passed a law allowing citizens to carry guns outside their homes. The Ukrainians are tough people. Tough people who are armed can inflict a lot of pain.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...kyiv-gun-shops-as-ukrainians-rush-to-buy-arms

I love this story about 13 Ukrainians defending a tiny island. A Russian warship told them to surrender. They knew they would be killed if they didn’t, but still told the Russians to “go F-yourselves”. That’s like the Alamo. Legendary.

https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/ukrainian-border-guards-killed-after-telling-russian-warship-off/

Parliament passed law to carry guns only due to the impending Russian onslaught. Prior to that no guns were allowed. I would say probably pretty late in the day to pick up a gun and actually know how to use it plus how many guns can actually be distributed in such short notice.

 

[rags747]

True, energy earnings is what fuels Russia's economy AND the oligarchs and Putin. And their gas and oil is what Europe pretty much sold their souls for. Thatcher decades ago warned this would happen.

Maybe Angela Merkel needs to be called out on her quite unwise move and decision. Take away her pension and make her apologize for her stupidity.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I sometimes wonder if the current generation (post glasnost) has the same resolve as those that grew up in the Stalinist period. I know my Russian in-laws would have (and, many did) fought to the death to protect Mother Russia. Their grandkids, not so much.

Great observation!

From my understanding, Stalin's image has improved in Russia over the past decade– But I wouldn't be surprised if that applied more to the older part of society than those born after the Soviet Union fell apart.

 

[Reality]

Great obervation!

From my understanding, Stalin's image has improved in Russia over the past decade– But I wouldn't be surprised if that applied more to the older part of society than those born after the Soviet Union fell apart.

The generation of Russians who have grown up post-USSR are not likely to miss those days because they never knew or experienced them.

As you pointed out, the Russian people are better off now than they were back then and once people become comfortable or complacent with their lives, they become more averse to risks that might threaten their norms.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The generation of Russians who have grown up post-USSR are not likely to miss those days because they never knew or experienced them.

As you pointed out, the Russian people are better off now than they were back then and once people become comfortable or complacent with their lives, they become more averse to risks that might threaten their norms.

Nail on the head.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Man, wife shared this with me and it has me gutted. You can feel the father’s despair as he says goodbye to his daughters possibly forever.

 

[terra]

Even after **** Germany captured Ukraine in early WWII, the partisan efforts behind the German front line was widespread and destructive.

You might study the history of the Ukraine and see that they had reason to hate Russia. The collectivization famine of the early 1930's. And during WW2 a large number of Ukrainians fought for Germany against Russia.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You might study the history of the Ukraine and see that they had reason to hate Russia. The collectivization famine of the early 1930's. And during WW2 a large number of Ukrainians fought for Germany against Russia.

Oh I'm aware of the history.

Initially those living in Ukraine greet the German army as "liberators" because of the dislike of the Russians.

One of the great missed opportunities of WWII, was Hitler's refusal to treat those in Ukraine as friends as opposed to treating them even worse than the Russians, which triggered a massive partisan effort against the German army, not to mention driving Ukrainian men into Stalin's armed forces.

 

[terra]

Oh I'm aware of the history.

Initially those living in Ukraine greet the German army as "liberators" because of the dislike of the Russians.

One of the great missed opportunities of WWII, was Hitler's refusal to treat those in Ukraine as friends as opposed to treating them even worse than the Russians, which triggered a massive partisan effort against the German army, not to mention driving Ukrainian men into Stalin's armed forces.

Yeah, one wonders what would have happened if Hitler had held back the SS and such for a few months. Really faked being liberators? It was so close in 1941 that might have made the difference.

There had been a Ukrainian underground fighting for freedom the entire time the Communists ruled.

 

[Doomsday]

Ukraine should have armed its citizens years ago instead of waiting for Russia to invade to do so.

Still trying to figure out why we are dumping billions into NATO if they are going to let Russia and most likely China do whatever they want.

 

[Roadtrip635]

"....she confronted a heavily armed Russian soldier and offered him sunflower seeds – so that flowers would grow if he died there on Ukraine’s soil. 'You’re occupants, you’re fascists,' she shouts, standing about a metre from the soldier.

'Take these seeds and put them in your pockets so at least sunflowers will grow when you all lie down here'"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/v...-woman-sunflower-seeds-russian-soldiers-video

 

[Reality]

The Ukrainian military has released a statement thanking a marine for allegedly sacrificing himself in order to demolish a bridge that would allow Russian tanks to advance.

The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine released the statement Friday via social media, reporting that Vitaliy Volodymyrovych Skakun, a battalion engineer, had voluntarily undertaken a mission to mine out the support structure of the Genichesky Bridge near the Kyiv before Russian forces could cross it. Shakun did not have time to flee the blast zone before detonating the explosives, and informed his battalion that he would be blowing it up regardless.

The Armed Forces reported that the subsequent explosion was immediate and thwarted Russian efforts to mobilize their tank column over the bridge.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ukraine should have armed its citizens years ago instead of waiting for Russia to invade to do so.

Still trying to figure out why we are dumping billions into NATO if they are going to let Russia and most likely China do whatever they want.

Ukraine is not part of NATO.

It's no more complicated than that.

Russia "picked" on Ukraine because it is not an NATO member.

If Russia attacks a NATO member (they probably are not going to test that one) then Article 5 of the alliance comes into play "Members agree that an armed attack against one of them in Europe or North America will be considered an attack against them all."

 

[MichaelWinicki]

List of NATO countries:

Year Name of the country
1949 Belgium
Canada
Denmark
France
Iceland
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
United Kingdom
United States
1952 Greece
Turkey
1955 Germany
1982 Spain
1999 Czech Republic
Hungary
Poland
2004 Bulgaria
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
2009 Albania
Croatia
2017 Montenegro
2020 North Macedonia

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I know there's been talk in the media and elsewhere about a "Russia-China" alliance...

I don't put a lot of faith in that one.

They have always been "uneasy" neighbors even though both countries have a communist-based ideology (more like dictatorships masquerading as communist-based counties).

They've had border clashes in the past and will probably again in the future.

I would not consider them having a close relationship like say the US and the UK for instance.

 

[CouchCoach]

I know there's been talk in the media and elsewhere about a "Russia-China" alliance...

I don't put a lot of faith in that one.

They have always been "uneasy" neighbors even though both countries have a communist-based ideology (more like dictatorships masquerading as communist-based counties).

They've had border clashes in the past and will probably again in the future.

I would not consider them having a close relationship like say the US and the UK for instance.

In the Korean War, Russia let China deal with it and with Vietnam they took a more active role. I think the only thing that unites them is the common enemy and China seems more calculating and less forceful to play the game.

 

[CouchCoach]

Putin's endgame is still the question here because it's a country roughly the size of Texas with 44M people, occupying it would be worse than Afghanistan and Russia seems to have this tendency to underestimate the willingness of people to fight them.

Been a long time since the Russian people have stood in line for 8 hours for a couple of rolls of toilet paper. Do they have the stomach for a protracted war with a neighbor?

I do not underestimate the will of the Ukrainian people after seeing the Afghan army fold like a cheap suit and lose the respect of the world.

 

[terra]

Putin's endgame is still the question here because it's a country roughly the size of Texas with 44M people, occupying it would be worse than Afghanistan and Russia seems to have this tendency to underestimate the willingness of people to fight them.

Been a long time since the Russian people have stood in line for 8 hours for a couple of rolls of toilet paper. Do they have the stomach for a protracted war with a neighbor?

I do not underestimate the will of the Ukrainian people after seeing the Afghan army fold like a cheap suit and lose the respect of the world.

Afghan army always was a joke. Afghan people on the other hand...

I really doubt Putin stays long at all; he will wreck as much as possible; loot as much as possible; then leave having taught everyone in the area around Russia that they can do this anytime they want and no one will say boo.

 

[VaqueroTD]

I would say Putin isn't stupid enough to retaliate with nukes and start WWIII, but then I remember the old saying "It's always the quiet ones..."