Safety is not priority number one in this draft

[Hoofbite]

Well, those things go out of the window when you trot out basically 20 different dudes on the starting line in 16 games.

20, 18, or whatever it was makes the situation sound far more unfortunate than it really was.

Had they only accumulated 14 would it have made a bit of a difference? They were pulling street guys in training camp. Aside from the occasional score like they had in Selvie, is one street guy any better than the next? They're all jobless.

The problem with the DL wasn't because they held tryouts every week to see if the next street FA down the road was any better than any of the guys they had signed during the week prior. The problem was the fact that the team had little depth going into training camp in the first place. Even if they had their projected starting 4 entirely healthy, who's filling the other 5 spots as the team kept 9 DL to start with?

Looks like: Wilbur, Hayden, Lissemore, Ben Bass, Landon Cohen. Swap Selvie out if you like.

• Wilbur, a 4th rounder was switching positions after being drafted to play OLB.
• Nick Hayden had last played all of 2 games back in 2011, sitting out for 2012 because nobody was calling.
• Lissemore was traded so that gives you an idea of what the team thought of him.
• Ben Bass was signed as an undrafted, released, and brought back to fill in due to injury.
• Landon Cohen was a guy who couldn't find a team and was waived 4 times prior before Dallas waived him a week into the season.

Basically, street free agents and a 4th round player switching positions. So even if Ratliff, Spencer, and Crawford were all healthy Dallas would have had 4 starting DL and nothing but a bunch of unknowns including George Selvie who had been cut from 4 teams before landing in Dallas.

Ratliff didn't count towards the roster while on PUP but with him that's 10 players, 6 of whom are nothing more than bottom of the barrel players. Had they all been healthy Dallas would have still racked up a whole bunch of different players on the DL just because more than half of the players at that position were basically tryout guys themselves.

They lost players but they had next to nothing in terms of depth to start the season. Even 100% health at that position wouldn't have prevented them from bringing in guy after guy every week because a hungry street free agent is likely to give you more than a guy who's made the roster but isn't any better.

The team was no worse off when Jason Vega (who was #X) got in for a few plays and committed almost as many penalties before being swapped out for #X+1.

Once you start cycling in and out street guys for the sake of doing so, you might as well stop counting because bringing in #20 because #19 sucked doesn't mean your team is any worse off. You were screwed from the start. Scrambling to try and find a better street free agent and racking up bodies who have taken a couple snaps at DL means nothing.

They had 9 DL who had fewer snaps than Cameron Lawrence. 9 guys with 51 or less snaps.

Does swapping out Everette Dawkins for Marvin Austin, Marvin Austin for Jason Vega, Jason Vega for Martez Wilson, Martez Wilson for Frank Kearse, and finally Frank Kearse for Landon Cohen mean much on Sunday? Absolutely not because none of them is really any better than the next so they might as well be the same guy who's coming in for a snap or two before going back to the bench. Or in this case, coming in for a decent number of snaps because the absolute lack of depth has made them a starter.

Playing 20 different guys on the DL doesn't mean anything if guys #13 through #20 are basically the same guy, which is barely anything more than the current week's contestant on the Price is Right. It especially doesn't mean anything if #6 is no better than #20 which is what it really came down to. You have to fill the roster spots, might as well just keep plugging guys in and hope George Selvie pops out so he can be the 5th best DL on your team while #'s 6 through 20 go back to waiting by the phone.

The number of players that took snaps at DL isn't some tale of misfortune, it's an indictment of horrid roster building and management.

 

[4lifecowboy]

I don't think it really matters if Dallas goes with DL or S because they need too much DL help for 1 guy to make much of a difference and they play their safeties in such a manner where any safety who is drafted will likely have limited opportunities to do much more than cover against the deepest of deep passes. Dallas doesn't even really seem to let their safeties try to read the play, but rather just tells them to get deep as quickly as possible at the snap. Sometimes that would mean the safety is back peddling or even has his hips turned while moving back before the ball is even snapped.

Guess that's probably part of of the downside in having guys who've never really played safety to any great extent with their limited experience coming at schools that are known for likely everything but producing football players.

I'm honestly sick of having liabilities at the safety position. I think the team should draft one just to give hope that maybe one of these guys can finally get more interceptions than Alan Ball did while at FS.

As for DL, the unit is so depleted of talent that they need more than just 1, 2, or 3 good additions. Hatcher likely gone, Spencer who knows, Ware who knows but probably staying.

Maybe the team should draft a safety just to encourage the opposition to run on a DL comprised of practice squad players. Anything to keep teams from passing.

Total agreement, DL is more than one player from being fixed, a good free safety could upgrade the whole secondary. All free agency money; the little we will have should be spent on the DL, getting capable bodies in here.

 

[reddyuta]

20, 18, or whatever it was makes the situation sound far more unfortunate than it really was.

Had they only accumulated 14 would it have made a bit of a difference? They were pulling street guys in training camp. Aside from the occasional score like they had in Selvie, is one street guy any better than the next? They're all jobless.

The problem with the DL wasn't because they held tryouts every week to see if the next street FA down the road was any better than any of the guys they had signed during the week prior. The problem was the fact that the team had little depth going into training camp in the first place. Even if they had their projected starting 4 entirely healthy, who's filling the other 5 spots as the team kept 9 DL to start with?

Looks like: Wilbur, Hayden, Lissemore, Ben Bass, Landon Cohen. Swap Selvie out if you like.

• Wilbur, a 4th rounder was switching positions after being drafted to play OLB.
• Nick Hayden had last played all of 2 games back in 2011, sitting out for 2012 because nobody was calling.
• Lissemore was traded so that gives you an idea of what the team thought of him.
• Ben Bass was signed as an undrafted, released, and brought back to fill in due to injury.
• Landon Cohen was a guy who couldn't find a team and was waived 4 times prior before Dallas waived him a week into the season.

Basically, street free agents and a 4th round player switching positions. So even if Ratliff, Spencer, and Crawford were all healthy Dallas would have had 4 starting DL and nothing but a bunch of unknowns including George Selvie who had been cut from 4 teams before landing in Dallas.

Ratliff didn't count towards the roster while on PUP but with him that's 10 players, 6 of whom are nothing more than bottom of the barrel players. Had they all been healthy Dallas would have still racked up a whole bunch of different players on the DL just because more than half of the players at that position were basically tryout guys themselves.

They lost players but they had next to nothing in terms of depth to start the season. Even 100% health at that position wouldn't have prevented them from bringing in guy after guy every week because a hungry street free agent is likely to give you more than a guy who's made the roster but isn't any better.

The team was no worse off when Jason Vega (who was #X) got in for a few plays and committed almost as many penalties before being swapped out for #X+1.

Once you start cycling in and out street guys for the sake of doing so, you might as well stop counting because bringing in #20 because #19 sucked doesn't mean your team is any worse off. You were screwed from the start. Scrambling to try and find a better street free agent and racking up bodies who have taken a couple snaps at DL means nothing.

They had 9 DL who had fewer snaps than Cameron Lawrence. 9 guys with 51 or less snaps.

Does swapping out Everette Dawkins for Marvin Austin, Marvin Austin for Jason Vega, Jason Vega for Martez Wilson, Martez Wilson for Frank Kearse, and finally Frank Kearse for Landon Cohen mean much on Sunday? Absolutely not because none of them is really any better than the next so they might as well be the same guy who's coming in for a snap or two before going back to the bench. Or in this case, coming in for a decent number of snaps because the absolute lack of depth has made them a starter.

Playing 20 different guys on the DL doesn't mean anything if guys #13 through #20 are basically the same guy, which is barely anything more than the current week's contestant on the Price is Right. It especially doesn't mean anything if #6 is no better than #20 which is what it really came down to. You have to fill the roster spots, might as well just keep plugging guys in and hope George Selvie pops out so he can be the 5th best DL on your team while #'s 6 through 20 go back to waiting by the phone.

The number of players that took snaps at DL isn't some tale of misfortune, it's an indictment of horrid roster building and management.

this is more of a trust issue to me,the coaches didnt trust Heath and Wilcox and so they were so far back that the only play they made was well after the ball was caught,this strategy still didnt stop the big plays though.

 

[bodi]

I think if we draft Pryor in first would be an INSTANT upgrade

give me safety that makes the big hit

 

[Idgit]

20, 18, or whatever it was makes the situation sound far more unfortunate than it really was.

Had they only accumulated 14 would it have made a bit of a difference? They were pulling street guys in training camp. Aside from the occasional score like they had in Selvie, is one street guy any better than the next? They're all jobless.

The problem with the DL wasn't because they held tryouts every week to see if the next street FA down the road was any better than any of the guys they had signed during the week prior. The problem was the fact that the team had little depth going into training camp in the first place. Even if they had their projected starting 4 entirely healthy, who's filling the other 5 spots as the team kept 9 DL to start with?

Looks like: Wilbur, Hayden, Lissemore, Ben Bass, Landon Cohen. Swap Selvie out if you like.

• Wilbur, a 4th rounder was switching positions after being drafted to play OLB.
• Nick Hayden had last played all of 2 games back in 2011, sitting out for 2012 because nobody was calling.
• Lissemore was traded so that gives you an idea of what the team thought of him.
• Ben Bass was signed as an undrafted, released, and brought back to fill in due to injury.
• Landon Cohen was a guy who couldn't find a team and was waived 4 times prior before Dallas waived him a week into the season.

Basically, street free agents and a 4th round player switching positions. So even if Ratliff, Spencer, and Crawford were all healthy Dallas would have had 4 starting DL and nothing but a bunch of unknowns including George Selvie who had been cut from 4 teams before landing in Dallas.

Ratliff didn't count towards the roster while on PUP but with him that's 10 players, 6 of whom are nothing more than bottom of the barrel players. Had they all been healthy Dallas would have still racked up a whole bunch of different players on the DL just because more than half of the players at that position were basically tryout guys themselves.

They lost players but they had next to nothing in terms of depth to start the season. Even 100% health at that position wouldn't have prevented them from bringing in guy after guy every week because a hungry street free agent is likely to give you more than a guy who's made the roster but isn't any better.

The team was no worse off when Jason Vega (who was #X) got in for a few plays and committed almost as many penalties before being swapped out for #X+1.

Once you start cycling in and out street guys for the sake of doing so, you might as well stop counting because bringing in #20 because #19 sucked doesn't mean your team is any worse off. You were screwed from the start. Scrambling to try and find a better street free agent and racking up bodies who have taken a couple snaps at DL means nothing.

They had 9 DL who had fewer snaps than Cameron Lawrence. 9 guys with 51 or less snaps.

Does swapping out Everette Dawkins for Marvin Austin, Marvin Austin for Jason Vega, Jason Vega for Martez Wilson, Martez Wilson for Frank Kearse, and finally Frank Kearse for Landon Cohen mean much on Sunday? Absolutely not because none of them is really any better than the next so they might as well be the same guy who's coming in for a snap or two before going back to the bench. Or in this case, coming in for a decent number of snaps because the absolute lack of depth has made them a starter.

Playing 20 different guys on the DL doesn't mean anything if guys #13 through #20 are basically the same guy, which is barely anything more than the current week's contestant on the Price is Right. It especially doesn't mean anything if #6 is no better than #20 which is what it really came down to. You have to fill the roster spots, might as well just keep plugging guys in and hope George Selvie pops out so he can be the 5th best DL on your team while #'s 6 through 20 go back to waiting by the phone.

The number of players that took snaps at DL isn't some tale of misfortune, it's an indictment of horrid roster building and management.

I agree with your main point here re: the number of actual starters this year. If anything, it just shows how active the team was in trying to find players on the street because they didn't have enough on their roster. I disagree that we didn't have sufficient depth to start the year. When you're counting on Ware, Ratliff, Hatcher, Spencer, and Crawford to be your top DLs in training camp, and it ends up Spencer and Crawford and Ratliff all give you practically nothing, and Ware is hampered by injury half the season, it's going to dig into your depth. The fact that we got quality snaps from the back roster players is a testament to the depth we did have and to the coaches' willingness and ability to plug people in. Nobody sustains multiple injuries to a position group well, because nobody can realistically go three-deep at a given position and still field a quality complete team in other areas.

The problem we've had the last few years is that the injuries we've had have been to the same positions more than the actual injuries themselves. Your 4th string C is not going to be a great player. Neither is your 3rd or 4th option at S, or at DT. Or at MLB. And we haven't been a deep team in the first place at areas like C and FS where those were positions where we really couldn't afford to take a hit, and we got hit out of the gates.

But, back to DT...we were trying to get by one last season with Hatcher and Spencer. The Ratliff situation was a massive miscalculation on the organization's part. Losing Crawford early and having Ware's productivity crater were just the worst possible timing. It was part poor planning, and part rolling snake eyes. That's not an excuse, it just is what it is. Really unfortunate, though, because I'm convinced a little luck with the DL last season--just avoiding the bad luck, really, and we're playing very different coverages late in the season. We'd have easily qualified for the playoffs, and been a much better looking team, overall. Now, we're stuck replacing multiple players with Ware a giant, expensive question mark and Crawford coming off a year of inactivity and a serious injury. And Hatcher gone. Yuck.

 

[jterrell]

20, 18, or whatever it was makes the situation sound far more unfortunate than it really was.

Had they only accumulated 14 would it have made a bit of a difference? They were pulling street guys in training camp. Aside from the occasional score like they had in Selvie, is one street guy any better than the next? They're all jobless.

The problem with the DL wasn't because they held tryouts every week to see if the next street FA down the road was any better than any of the guys they had signed during the week prior. The problem was the fact that the team had little depth going into training camp in the first place. Even if they had their projected starting 4 entirely healthy, who's filling the other 5 spots as the team kept 9 DL to start with?

Looks like: Wilbur, Hayden, Lissemore, Ben Bass, Landon Cohen. Swap Selvie out if you like.

• Wilbur, a 4th rounder was switching positions after being drafted to play OLB.
• Nick Hayden had last played all of 2 games back in 2011, sitting out for 2012 because nobody was calling.
• Lissemore was traded so that gives you an idea of what the team thought of him.
• Ben Bass was signed as an undrafted, released, and brought back to fill in due to injury.
• Landon Cohen was a guy who couldn't find a team and was waived 4 times prior before Dallas waived him a week into the season.

Basically, street free agents and a 4th round player switching positions. So even if Ratliff, Spencer, and Crawford were all healthy Dallas would have had 4 starting DL and nothing but a bunch of unknowns including George Selvie who had been cut from 4 teams before landing in Dallas.

Ratliff didn't count towards the roster while on PUP but with him that's 10 players, 6 of whom are nothing more than bottom of the barrel players. Had they all been healthy Dallas would have still racked up a whole bunch of different players on the DL just because more than half of the players at that position were basically tryout guys themselves.

They lost players but they had next to nothing in terms of depth to start the season. Even 100% health at that position wouldn't have prevented them from bringing in guy after guy every week because a hungry street free agent is likely to give you more than a guy who's made the roster but isn't any better.

The team was no worse off when Jason Vega (who was #X) got in for a few plays and committed almost as many penalties before being swapped out for #X+1.

Once you start cycling in and out street guys for the sake of doing so, you might as well stop counting because bringing in #20 because #19 sucked doesn't mean your team is any worse off. You were screwed from the start. Scrambling to try and find a better street free agent and racking up bodies who have taken a couple snaps at DL means nothing.

They had 9 DL who had fewer snaps than Cameron Lawrence. 9 guys with 51 or less snaps.

Does swapping out Everette Dawkins for Marvin Austin, Marvin Austin for Jason Vega, Jason Vega for Martez Wilson, Martez Wilson for Frank Kearse, and finally Frank Kearse for Landon Cohen mean much on Sunday? Absolutely not because none of them is really any better than the next so they might as well be the same guy who's coming in for a snap or two before going back to the bench. Or in this case, coming in for a decent number of snaps because the absolute lack of depth has made them a starter.

Playing 20 different guys on the DL doesn't mean anything if guys #13 through #20 are basically the same guy, which is barely anything more than the current week's contestant on the Price is Right. It especially doesn't mean anything if #6 is no better than #20 which is what it really came down to. You have to fill the roster spots, might as well just keep plugging guys in and hope George Selvie pops out so he can be the 5th best DL on your team while #'s 6 through 20 go back to waiting by the phone.

The number of players that took snaps at DL isn't some tale of misfortune, it's an indictment of horrid roster building and management.

No offense but that's at least partly garbage.

Dallas made a mistake gambling on Ratliff last year but really had little choice because of guaranteed money.
Spencer was a freak accident but paying him a franchise amount looks dumb obviously. --tho perhaps not as dumb as signing a long term deal with huge guaranteed money.

the rest...
Landon Cohen was an off-season depth pro personnel move that ended up playing 13 games for the Chicago Bears.
If he'd have stuck on the roster here he'd have played and helped us.
Nick Hayden was just a roster body that won a gig. Beating out Lissemore and Cohen above.

Dallas planned a 9 deep of
Spencer, Selvie
Hatcher, Crawford, Bass
Ratlif, Lissemore
Ware, Wilber

Of that 9 players, 4 players actually worked out. 3 were injured and 2 didn't fit in the new scheme where initially projected.

They worked to find Selvie who was a solid SDE and would be a great SDE back up.

So it wasn't players 13-20 rotating in and out here. It was more like players 2,3,5,6 all gone.
Player 1 was out some games and played hurt others. Same for player 4.

It is not like Dallas was cutting guys in camp because they couldn't play football.
They traded Lissemore because they liked where they were on the DL.
Dallas fell short of bodies as injuries hit same as any NFL team does.
No one has rosters spots for 3rd team guys that don't play on special teams.
Much less roster spots plus cap space.

The Cowboys had 6 sacks through 2 weeks.
They were getting plenty of pressure.
As the back ups and depth were exposed over time that pressure tailed off heinously.

Any team in football with 3 or 4 street free agents playing significant snaps on any group is in real trouble.

Dallas pro personnel dept does a great job of finding NFL caliber bodies.
Wheter its Frank Walker, Ernie Sims, Hayden, Selvie et al they've found guys who can come in and help.
But no team is finding more than a couple of those guys at one position per year.

 

[xwalker]

The problem was the fact that the team had little depth going into training camp in the first place. Even if they had their projected starting 4 entirely healthy, who's filling the other 5 spots as the team kept 9 DL to start with?

The projected lineup going into training camp:

Starters:
Ware
Ratliff
Hatcher
Spencer

Backups:
Crawford
Selvie
Hayden
Bass
Wilber

 

[pacboyX]

Plain and simple Wilcox is the only consistent factor at safety. Church is good but Wilcox will make a bigger impact at his position. Heath I see getting beat by the 2-3 round safety pick this year. Theres nothing really to say about Matt Johnson :/.

 

[casmith07]

Plain and simple Wilcox is the only consistent factor at safety. Church is good but Wilcox will make a bigger impact at his position. Heath I see getting beat by the 2-3 round safety pick this year. Theres nothing really to say about Matt Johnson :/.

Wilcox is the only one that I like long term of those you've mentioned.