SC Pass Defenses

[Hostile]

I figured us somewhere between #8-12. I haven't seen the segment yet, but I don't understand how we're that high.

2nd hand smoke.

 

[peplaw06]

3.) Did you ever watch Carlos Rogers? He was clearly the best rookie corner in the league. And thats what he was, a very good ROOKIE cb. He was not GREAT, but what rookie CB is? Remember when Terrance Newman was a rookie? I'm sure you guys would have killed for Newman to have a rookie season like Rogers'.

I love that word "clearly." It's just a signal to all of us that your argument is weak and needs added emphasis. It's like saying, "There's no question. Don't even bother looking it up, it's a fact." All you're doing is inviting us to look it up. And guess what I found.

Carlos Rogers
48 total tackles
4 passes defended
2 picks
2 forced fumbles

Pacman Jones
53 total tackles
11 passes defended

So there's definitely room for debating that. Not that it means that much anyways. Oh yeah Pacman had a pretty big impact on special teams.

 

[Gamebreaker]

After reading this thread, it seems all the cowboys fans here think "pass defense" was just about the secondary. When all their doing is pass defense and run defense, I doubt only the secondary was taken into in consideration when doing these rankings.

 

[peplaw06]

After reading this thread, it seems all the cowboys fans here think "pass defense" was just about the secondary. When all their doing is pass defense and run defense, I doubt only the secondary was taken into in consideration when doing these rankings.

Go read page 1... I said the pass rush is taken into consideration, but is the Skins pass rush that much better than the Cowboys?? I don't think so. I actually give us the nod there.

 

[Gamebreaker]

Go read page 1... I said the pass rush is taken into consideration, but is the Skins pass rush that much better than the Cowboys?? I don't think so. I actually give us the nod there.

I still haven't seen the segment. But the only explanation I can think of for having the Skins so high in regards to pass rush, must be Gregg Williams' creative blitzing schemes. We only added Andre Carter to bolster the pass rush. He'll do better than Daniels/Wynn, but none of the other DL are suited for that. Griffin and Salavea are run stuffers, so is Wynn, who'll probably start over Daniels.

 

[Bizwah]

Another Newman nugget.

He was a Pro-Bowl alternate his rookie year. He also was second in DROY voting....if I remember right.

Newman was also a PB Alt this season.

He really had a rough time his second season....but our whole defense did. He also was playing on a bum knee.....

I think he allowed one TD pass his rookie year.....NONE last year.....

 

[Chocolate Lab]

1.) Adam Archuletta may not be GREAT in pass coverage but some of you overestimate how bad he really is. He is a lot faster than your boy RW

3.) Did you ever watch Carlos Rogers? He was clearly the best rookie corner in the league. And thats what he was, a very good ROOKIE cb. He was not GREAT, but what rookie CB is? Remember when Terrance Newman was a rookie? I'm sure you guys would have killed for Newman to have a rookie season like Rogers'.

The ignorance of Skins fans never ceases to amaze me...

 

[Vintage]

I love it when people break out the tackles, ints, and passes defensed stats in debates about CB play.

I can prove that Henry is better than both DeAngelo Hall and Deion Sanders using the same stats.

 

[Bizwah]

For the record....

I have no problem with these preseason rankings. The NFL is so fluid now. Plus, we're very young.....

We all look at our young talent and think, "these guys are going to get better, and better, and better".......well, that's not always the case.

I think we have the most talented defense in the East. But we're not the best yet. We have a lot of growing to do.

 

[peplaw06]

I love it when people break out the tackles, ints, and passes defensed stats in debates about CB play.

I can prove that Henry is better than both DeAngelo Hall and Deion Sanders using the same stats.

OK then how do you compare them? And how pray tell can you say Carlos Rogers CLEARLY better than Pacman Jones or Antrelle Rolle if you're not looking at stats?? They were all rookies and I seriously doubt this guy has watched all their games or compared their tapes.

 

[Vintage]

OK then how do you compare them? And how pray tell can you say Carlos Rogers CLEARLY better than Pacman Jones or Antrelle Rolle if you're not looking at stats?? They were all rookies and I seriously doubt this guy has watched all their games or compared their tapes.

Percentage of passes completed against, yards given up, TDs given up...

Passes defensed isn't too bad either....


I was just saying looking at tackles and INTs doesn't mean great CB play.

 

[peplaw06]

Percentage of passes completed against, yards given up, TDs given up...

Passes defensed isn't too bad either....


I was just saying looking at tackles and INTs doesn't mean great CB play.

Well break em out, be my guest. Show me Rogers is clearly better, instead of telling me.

 

[dargonking999]

Well break em out, be my guest. Show me Rogers is clearly better, instead of telling me.

i dont think vintage meant that, i think he was just stating that using those stats really arent the best way to show a CB's play which i agree

 

[Vintage]

Well break em out, be my guest. Show me Rogers is clearly better, instead of telling me.

uh.....

 

[peplaw06]

i dont think vintage meant that, i think he was just stating that using those stats really arent the best way to show a CB's play which i agree

And I didn't mean that Jones was clearly better because of those stats. I know the stats aren't the best, but they mean something. My main point is there could be a debate as to who was the best rookie CB last year. Saying Rogers is CLEARLY better is asking for someone to call you out on it.

And yes I know Vintage wasn't making that point, but he attacked the stats as meaningless. They don't mean everything, but they have some meaning. They support the argument that Rogers wasn't clearly better.

How can a guy nicknamed "Toast" by his hometown media be clearly, unequivocally, without a doubt, the best rookie CB in the league?

 

[MossBurner]

Since you asked........

Roy > Sean Taylor
TNew > Springs
Henry > Rogers

That is 3 of 4 I like our starters better.

I disagree with you. Obviously, so do the analysts at ESPN.

Roy better than Sean, hah!

 

[MossBurner]

Adam Archuleta is the worst starting coverage safety in football. Even Commanders fans dont argue against this. He makes Roy Williams look like Ronnie Lott.

Sean Taylor looks for the big hit too often and gets burned, especially against Dallas.

Carlos Rogers was nicknamed "Toast" by his own media outlet

Shawn Springs is the only good coverage player in the secondary

Wow, ignorance is bliss.

 

[MossBurner]

Tackles:

Rogers 44 + 4 = 48
Newman 66 + 10 = 76

Sacks

Rogers 0
Newman 1

Ints:

Rogers 2
Newman 4

Looks to me like Newman pretty much beat your guy across the board. That is my dispute to your claim. Bottom line...

TNew > Rogers

Games:

Rogers parts of 12
Newman 16

 

[MossBurner]

Just cause YOU haven't seen AA and his shortcomings in coverage, doesn't mean "it is yet to be seen." He is widely considered the worst coverage safety in the league, as has been stated. But please, feel free to believe he's a good cover guy until YOU see him.

The Bears and Skins hotly pursued AA in Free Agency. Do you think the defensive minds behind those teams may know a little bit more than the guys in St Louis?

 

[BigDFan5]

1.) Adam Archuletta may not be GREAT in pass coverage but some of you overestimate how bad he really is. He is a lot faster than your boy RW

you should have looked up their 40 times, since Roy ran faster than AA I am trying to figure out how AA is "a lot" faster.

2.) This is just untrue. Aside from the flea flicker in Taylors rookie season, go ahead and name one time Taylor has been burned deep by the Cowboys. Sean Taylor, unlike Roy Williams is known for his coverage abilities, not his ability to get beat.

Taylor is not as great in coverage as you are spewing, even Commander fans can acknowledge this when they are being honest

3.) Did you ever watch Carlos Rogers? He was clearly the best rookie corner in the league. And thats what he was, a very good ROOKIE cb. He was not GREAT, but what rookie CB is? Remember when Terrance Newman was a rookie? I'm sure you guys would have killed for Newman to have a rookie season like Rogers'.

You realize of Course Newman had a better rookie year right? Pro Bowl alternate, runner up for DROY man you really stink at this whole forum thing.

There you go, my dispute to your claims.

Now try again with some true statements instead of made up BS