Sensabaugh has visits lined up — 3:30 p.m.

[dbair1967]

Hamlin plays the same coverages that every other free safety plays in the league. His # of INTs is low because he isn't targeted much.

That has nothing to do with why he doesnt get more picks or have more PD's.

And most other teams dont have our pass rush and CB's.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Ah, safeties do play man coverage in the NFL at times.

There is a Bengal safety who doesn't play for the Cowboys anymore because he couldn't cover my grandmother in single coverage.

It's typically the SS in a Cover 1 and 3.

 

[theogt]

I've never discredited him for "not playing man coverage"

Are you even paying attention? I swear sometiems you argue just to argue (must be the lawyer thing).

I've said he SHOULD be making more plays because he almost NEVER plays man coverage, and when you factor that in with our excellent pass rush and CB play, that whoever plays FS here should be doing more.

I've been agreeing with you all season on your contention he doesnt play much man to man defense, its also why I have such an issue with his total lack of playmaking ability.

He's about average among starting safeties at "making plays." I posted the statistics earlier and you ignored them.

He's WAY above average in giving up passes in the league.

 

[CanuckCowboysFan]

Thinking makes your head hurt, huh?

your stupidity is making my head hurt. Dbair just showed you stats that show it all, and you come back with 'he's not targeted'. Cut the crap man. I don't think I have ever seen him play Man to Man coverage he's ALWAYS in zone, so what the hell do you consider 'targeted' anyway. He should thrive in this system, and be constantly making plays on the ball. If he was one of the top safeties, Jerry wouldn't even consider releasing him and looking for his replacement, yet he is. Thats all that needs to be said. If he was one of the top safeties he should be mentioned with the likes of Polamalu, Reed, Jackson, Atogwe, Collins, etc. No one in there right mind would even proclaim that. One of the worst seems more like it.

 

[theogt]

he admitted he was wrong already. when teams blitz safeties sometimes are asked to play man coverage. they don't play a zone everytime.

I didn't admit that I was wrong. I used an absolute term in a figurative manner. Obviously free safeties do cover man to man at times. But it's extremely rare because it's beyond stupid to call it. It's only called because it can catch an offense by surprise, kind of like a reverse or half-back pass.

Surely, even you can understand this.

 

[dbair1967]

He's about average among starting safeties at "making plays." I posted the statistics earlier and you ignored them.

He's WAY above average in giving up passes in the league.

I think his lack of insticts or ball skills have alot more to do with his lack of plays. He just isnt any good at it. Either he's football dumb and doesnt read plays well, or he is lacking physically and just cant get to where he needs to gets to.

The other pieces around him are too good for him to be as invisible as he is.

 

[gimmesix]

What theo doesn't understand is that the few passes Hamlin sees is dictated by how the opposing O attacks our D. They are simply content to complete short and medium passes to the middle of the field because our ILBs don't get enough depth in their drops and Hamlin is responsible for stopping the deep play.

Theo wants to sit here and act like Hamlin sees so few passes because he's locking down in coverage. :laugh2:

I think you both go too far in your arguments.

Yes, the coverage does dictate how the opposing O attacks our D, but Hamlin is a part of that coverage. I don't think you can take all credit from him for seeing so few passes.

If he's reading the offense right, then he's doing his job as the center fielder of taking away the deep threat and helping to force the checkdown. He's failing in the area of making plays on the ball, which is what we want to see more of, but at least part of that is because he's where he's supposed to be in coverage, forcing the quarterback to throw elsewhere. In that sense, he is "locking down in coverage."

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think his lack of insticts or ball skills have alot more to do with his lack of plays. He just isnt any good at it. Either he's football dumb and doesnt read plays well, or he is lacking physically and just cant get to where he needs to gets to.

The other pieces around him are too good for him to be as invisible as he is.

He takes bad angles for one.

 

[theogt]

your stupidity is making my head hurt. Dbair just showed you stats that show it all, and you come back with 'he's not targeted'. Cut the crap man. I don't think I have ever seen him play Man to Man coverage he's ALWAYS in zone, so what the hell do you consider 'targeted' anyway. He should thrive in this system, and be constantly making plays on the ball. If he was one of the top safeties, Jerry wouldn't even consider releasing him and looking for his replacement, yet he is. Thats all that needs to be said. If he was one of the top safeties he should be mentioned with the likes of Polamalu, Reed, Jackson, Atogwe, Collins, etc. No one in there right mind would even proclaim that. One of the worst seems more like it.

I came back with stats that show his passes defended and INTs relative to how much he's targeted.

In case you weren't aware, if a player isn't targeted, he can't defend the pass. Just a heads up for you. That one was for free.

 

[casmith07]

He takes bad angles for one.

You would LOVE Atwoge then.

 

[casmith07]

I think you both go too far in your arguments.

Yes, the coverage does dictate how the opposing O attacks our D, but Hamlin is a part of that coverage. I don't think you can take all credit from him for seeing so few passes.

If he's reading the offense right, then he's doing his job as the center fielder of taking away the deep threat and helping to force the checkdown. He's failing in the area of making plays on the ball, which is what we want to see more of, but at least part of that is because he's where he's supposed to be in coverage, forcing the quarterback to throw elsewhere. In that sense, he is "locking down in coverage."

Sweet Jesus. This man knows what a Free Safety is supposed to do.

You make a former CB/FS like myself choke up a little bit around here. :

 

[TwoCentPlain]

It's typically the SS in a Cover 1 and 3.

I thought I read somewhere where in the Cowboys system, the strong and free safety roles are very similar. i.e. There is not a lot of difference between them.

Anyone else hear that?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think you both go too far in your arguments.

Yes, the coverage does dictate how the opposing O attacks our D, but Hamlin is a part of that coverage. I don't think you can take all credit from him for seeing so few passes.

If he's reading the offense right, then he's doing his job as the center fielder of taking away the deep threat and helping to force the checkdown. He's failing in the area of making plays on the ball, which is what we want to see more of, but at least part of that is because he's where he's supposed to be in coverage, forcing the quarterback to throw elsewhere. In that sense, he is "locking down in coverage."

He's not forcing the QB to throw elsewhere. That's a high percentage pass. QBs are just exploiting the one flaw in the scheme...a bunch of room to operate in the middle of the field.

 

[theogt]

I think his lack of insticts or ball skills have alot more to do with his lack of plays. He just isnt any good at it. Either he's football dumb and doesnt read plays well, or he is lacking physically and just cant get to where he needs to gets to.

The other pieces around him are too good for him to be as invisible as he is.

I think your subjective judgments that admittedly ignore facts are less than persuasive.

 

[dbair1967]

I thought I read somewhere where in the Cowboys system, the strong and free safety roles are very similar. i.e. There is not a lot of difference between them.

Anyone else hear that?

I know that used to be the case, but am unsure if it still is in Wade's system.

Several other teams practice "interchangable safeties" though.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You would LOVE Atwoge then.

Difference is that Atogwe would cost 1.23 mil

Hamlin is getting more than 3 times that much.

 

[theogt]

He's not forcing the QB to throw elsewhere. That's a high percentage pass. QBs are just exploiting the one flaw in the scheme...a bunch of room to operate in the middle of the field.

Re-read your own post. Then re-read again. Then think about if you want to edit it.

 

[peplaw06]

Difference is that Atogwe would cost 1.23 mil

Hamlin is getting more than 3 times that much.

Does that mean I can get cheaper tickets and merchandise?

Or are you worried about our cap figure this year?

 

[dbair1967]

I think your subjective judgments that admittedly ignore facts are less than persuasive.

Well of course you feel that way. You are convinced Hamlin is a good player and no matter what is shown to you, you wont change your mind.

However when he is elsewhere (likely this yr IMO) and someone else is here in his place, and the numbers are drastically different we'll see if you continue down this road.

 

[casmith07]

He's not forcing the QB to throw elsewhere. That's a high percentage pass. QBs are just exploiting the one flaw in the scheme...a bunch of room to operate in the middle of the field.

And opposing QBs are coincidentally only putting up 250 points through a season, 2nd in the NFL in scoring defense.

/thread.