Short blurb about Ken Bishop

[CowboyDan]

Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning?

 

[DallasEast]

Excellent replay of the tackle. Thanks for posting it.
And when I watch it again it looks like the guys legs are clearly much closer than his collar.

lol. A player's legs will always be closer to a would be tackler if they are running. A player would be standing still or laying with his legs towards a tackler for legs to be positioned closer to a tackler.

I remembered correctly in my earlier post. Bishop extended his arms fully to tackle the ballcarrier. Additionally, he committed to leaping towards the ballcarrier to grab for shoulder pads. Both observations are key for making an opinion about the tackle itself.

Tackling mechanics are the same in every run down situation. In making a "sure" tackle from directly behind, a player wants the runner's legs to be practically kicking his body before committing to bending, pushing off and aiming for the runner's waist, thighs, knees, or even ankles. Depending on the gap between both players, smaller tacklers than Bishop will not even consider aiming for anything above the thighs.

At the point where Bishop attempted and made his horse collar tackle, he could have elected for a less certain tackle. In other words, he could have bend, pushed off, aimed for the runner's ankles or feet and swiped hard enough in hopes it would cause the runner to trip. Such tackles are always made when the tackler does not feel he has any other option left in making the tackle.

Bishop had time to make a sure tackle, but it would require him closing the gap before attempting one. At his closing speed, it would have taken a few more strides before making the attempt. If successful, the runner's forward momentum would have been stopped approximately at the 5-yard line or closer. In those brief moments before an almost non-debatable touchdown, Bishop made a judgment call. His bad tackle secured better remaining field position for the defense to work and eliminated points from the scoreboard.

Luckily, the runner wasn't hurt. It was a dangerous tackle, but an excellent play on his part. That's football.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I don't like dirty plays. He could've broken the guy's legs. Not cool. Gotta be smarter than that.

What would of happened had he dove low instead of grabbing high and landed on his legs, as it was he never touched his legs. If I am not mistaken, the Horse Collar Rule or 'Roy Williams Rule' should and does include falling on the runners legs, which did not occur on the Penalty.

 

[DallasEast]

What would of happened had he dove low instead of grabbing high and landed on his legs, as it was he never touched his legs. If I am not mistaken, the Horse Collar Rule or 'Roy Williams Rule' should and does include falling on the runners legs, which did not occur on the Penalty.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2013 - Rule Book.pdf

Page 77

Article 15: Horse-Collar Tackle. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket.

Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground.

Penalty: For a Horse-Collar Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down.

***

The refs may make a evaluation of how a tackler lands on the ball carrier, but it is not a stipulation of the official penalty.

 

[Risen Star]

I'm sure the coaches will look at it the same way I did. Great hustle but you have to be smarter than that when you finish.

Oh, and ditch the skates next week.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2013 - Rule Book.pdf

Page 77

Article 15: Horse-Collar Tackle. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket.

Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground.

Penalty: For a Horse-Collar Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down.

***

The refs may make a evaluation of how a tackler lands on the ball carrier, but it is not a stipulation of the official penalty.

There it is in black and white.

TY! .... heard it debated both ways, well over 90% of the injuries that occur from the infraction are from the tackler actually landing on the runners legs during/at the end of the horse collar.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I'm sure the coaches will look at it the same way I did. Great hustle but you have to be smarter than that when you finish.

Oh, and ditch the skates next week.

Yeh there is some unwarranted hype going down if you watch every play. ... the real question is can Dallas be better than what they fielded a year ago....in a rotation with Hayden it looks better than no rotation and 32nd overall.

BTW, Hitchens looks like a keeper after all. Wouldn't you agree that he has shown up on the game film, suddenly the LB looks like a very solid choice n the 4th.

 

[jday]

Just a short blurb about one play. A SD RB got around the left end and Bishop chased him down. Granted the RB was held up a tad with traffic but that's a 300 lb DT running like that. I won't mention the horse collar tackle...did I say that out loud. He still caught him.

I fell asleep early last night and I'm half watching the game now. Did he show much doing his regular job?

That play stood out to me too. He showed really good hustle on that play. And I wonder if he hadn't pulled the RB down there if it wouldn't have been a Touchdown. Personally, I'm fine with touchdown saving penalties.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yeh there is some unwarranted hype going down if you watch every play. ... the real question is can Dallas be better than what they fielded a year ago....in a rotation with Hayden it looks better than no rotation and 32nd overall.

BTW, Hitchens looks like a keeper after all. Wouldn't you agree that he has shown up on the game film, suddenly the LB looks like a very solid choice n the 4th.

You make some good points.

I'd like to see how much better a starting dline of Selvie/McLain/Melton/Mincey is compared to starting line that was out there Thursday night. Is it going to be better? Yeah? How much better? Don't know.

I also think having Ro McLain at MLB would help that unit. I would put Durant on one OLB spot and Carter at the other.

 

[Idgit]

Meh. It's a dangerous game. He made the play, and drew the penalty. It's better than not making the play. This is something he'll be praised for in the film room.

 

[Risen Star]

Yeh there is some unwarranted hype going down if you watch every play. ... the real question is can Dallas be better than what they fielded a year ago....in a rotation with Hayden it looks better than no rotation and 32nd overall.

BTW, Hitchens looks like a keeper after all. Wouldn't you agree that he has shown up on the game film, suddenly the LB looks like a very solid choice n the 4th.

No. I wouldn't agree with that. I thought he played poorly.

Even if he turns into a good player, and I highly doubt that, he still wouldn't be a good 4th round pick IMO because you could have gotten him later in the draft.

 

[Idgit]

No. I wouldn't agree with that. I thought he played poorly.

Even if he turns into a good player, and I highly doubt that, he still wouldn't be a good 4th round pick IMO because you could have gotten him later in the draft.

At least you've moved enough to admit it's a possibility. You were sure it wasn't before you'd ever seen him play.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

No. I wouldn't agree with that. I thought he played poorly.

Even if he turns into a good player, and I highly doubt that, he still wouldn't be a good 4th round pick IMO because you could have gotten him later in the draft.

You have no idea where he would have been picked. Stop acting like you know where players will be drafted, here is a news flash. ... you don't. Nobody knows it's all speculation.

Rumors are Hitchens wouldn't have made it out the 4th round as New England and Baltimore was looking at him

 

[Risen Star]

At least you've moved enough to admit it's a possibility. You were sure it wasn't before you'd ever seen him play.

No. It's not a possibility, IMO.

I don't need to see him play in Dallas to have an opinion on the player. I don't play this game of well let's wait and see, what do we know, trust the team defense mechanism fans use to defend horrible draft picks.

Anthony Hitchens will go down as yet another horrific draft day decision by the worst run team in the league over the last 20 years.

 

[dogunwo]

I get your point. I've seen a lot of horse collar tackles and most before they were a penalty and I don't remember injuries. I'm sure I could have missed that watching games though. He did what he had to do although I understand your concern.

It was more of an issue when Roy did it because his techniques swung his body into the back of the legs.

 

[Idgit]

You have no idea where he would have been picked. Stop acting like you know where players will be drafted, here is a news flash. ... you don't. Nobody knows it's all speculation.

Rumors are Hitchens wouldn't have made it out the 4th round as New England and Baltimore was looking at him

I agree that Risen doesn't know, though I also think we probably overdrafted Hitchens. Seattle's made a living overdrafting the right guys. It's most important to get guys you can develop. Getting them at value is secondary, but still important.

 

[Risen Star]

You have no idea where he would have been picked. Stop acting like you know where players will be drafted, here is a news flash. ... you don't. Nobody knows it's all speculation.

Rumors are Hitchens wouldn't have made it out the 4th round as New England and Baltimore was looking at him

Yeah...I don't play that game. Every time this team reaches big on a semi-pro talent a rumor floats around about another team being interested and was. just. about. to. take. him.

I don't buy it. I didn't see a single soul who projected Hitchens as a 4th round value and didn't read anyone, including the people here, who thought enough of Hitchens to even mention him as a priority free agent.

So what you disagree with is my consistency. I don't change the stance after the pick is announced.

 

[Risen Star]

I agree that Risen doesn't know, though I also think we probably overdrafted Hutchinson. Seattle's made a living overdrafting the right guys. It's most important to get guys you can develop. Getting them at value is secondary, but still important.

I don't know but I'll be right in the end. Like I usually am. Like I am far more than you'll ever be.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I agree that Risen doesn't know, though I also think we probably overdrafted Hutchinson. Seattle's made a living overdrafting the right guys. It's most important to get guys you can develop. Getting them at value is secondary, but still important.

Not really sure of this Hutchinson guy but if the team feels he is the 4th round pick then I how he does well and reserve judgement after 3 years. Until then it doesn't matter what we think some players need time to develop

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I don't know but I'll be right in the end. Like I usually am. Like I am far more than you'll ever be.

Oh yes O mighty Risen, please bless us with your immense knowledge. ......... dude get over yourself and your not always right about everything.

If your so much better and smarter then everybody how come your not an owner or gm or hc in the NFL?