Shortage in elite QB's

[KJJ]

I mean that I think most QB’s that are drafted high and have terrible seasons or never really get to remain starter did not necessarily suck as bad as they may have looked.

I think most of them are products of their team-good or bad. I don’t think Baker is as bad as he showed with the Panthers just over a year ago. I don’t think Geno Smith was as poor as he showed with the Jets. I don’t think Goff is the reason or even main reason the Lions had so much success last season (he’s a cog and they must feel like they are close enough to a championship window that they needed to secure his services even though he’s getting older-and weighing their chances on getting someone better during the window).

CJ went to a team that were in a ton of very close games the season prior. The Texans were not as bad as the 2022 season record reflected. However, CJ played great and helped them take big strides on offense and without much of a running game. But the rest of the roster performed better too-new coaches may have helped.

I disagree that QB’s somehow have a tougher time now with more passing. I think the short/intermediate pass game is used heavily in any WCO or version of it-which boosts passing numbers. Some teams still ground/pound and heavy playaction though-depends on the team.

It’s better we agree to disagree. It will save us both a lot of time.

 

[Blitzen]

They are but he also makes some damn good throws. They will eventually lose talent…seems like Aiyuk might be first pick to go so we will see how he takes that.

What do you mean we didn’t see Lance? He played and they determined he wasn’t good enough.

And you guys keep using team success to determine how good or bad these guys are. Purdy is a much better quarterback than Jimmy G. He legit is one of the best quarterbacks in the league and he’s only been playing 2 years.

Most of my input and discourse here is to discuss how much impact these “franchise” QBs have overall. I can see that some seem to perform better, but many times I come back to the thought that the great team around them makes them look much better than they are.

Brock made some great throws last season, but I am not sold on him being a huge playmaker for that squad. I think he understands what they are asking of him very well, avoids big mistakes, and does not poop the bed when the going gets tough.

 

[Blitzen]

It’s better we agree to disagree. It will save us both a lot of time.

No harm in throwing your opinion out there. I don’t post to convince someone or to be convinced. And this board is basically all about time wasting.

 

[Rockport]

You think Brady still has a HOF career with that Browns team of the early 2000’s? Yikes.

Where did you get that from. Brady is the GOAT until Mahomes retires. Brady would never had stayed with a bad team. You guys are so funny. Brady’s not elite?

 

[KJJ]

Not everything is about dak like the dak bots say
BUT the point I am making is that those teams were willing to take risks at the QB position and it paid off better than anything we have done for a very long time

It wasn’t much of a risk for those teams because they didn’t have much at QB. Tampa certainly didn’t take a risk dumping Jameis Winston who had led them to three straight losing seasons. All he did was turn the ball over. Jared Goff’s numbers began to decline as soon as he signed the big contract and the Rams saw an opportunity to get a better QB. It wasn’t that big of risk moving on from Goff and bringing in a much more productive QB in Stafford. He was putting up huge numbers on bad Detroit teams so the Rams figured if they put a lot of talent around him he could thrive. None of those teams that moved on from their QB had one as good as the one we have. We would be taking a huge risk trying to improve on what we have at the position and that’s a fact! We have nothing behind him that’s better and we certainly aren’t going to find anyone better in free agency and the draft is a complete crapshoot.

 

[KJJ]

No harm in throwing your opinion out there. I don’t post to convince someone or to be convinced. And this board is basically all about time wasting.

No harm throwing your opinion out there on this board, we’re all anonymous. Most don’t care what others think here anyway. I don’t view posting on this board as necessarily time wasting. If you’re not enjoying something, it’s a waste of time. I enjoy the time I spend here for the most part but when my opinion differs greatly from someone else’s, it’s better to move on. It’s not like we’re going to change each other’s opinion. However, your response did make a little more sense than your OP.

 

[Blitzen]

Where did you get that from. Brady is the GOAT until Mahomes retires. Brady would never had stayed with a bad team. You guys are so funny. Brady’s not elite?

Weren’t you commenting on his theoretical proposition? What if Brady was drafted by the Browns proposition?

 

[Kevinicus]

What do you mean we didn’t see Lance? He played and they determined he wasn’t good enough.

And you guys keep using team success to determine how good or bad these guys are. Purdy is a much better quarterback than Jimmy G. He legit is one of the best quarterbacks in the league and he’s only been playing 2 years.

Lance played one game in 2022. In a monsoon in Chicago. They did not have CMAC.

So, no, not the same team.

I also was not just using team success to say JG looked better. I said the TEAM looked just as good with JG as they did with Purdy.

I also pointed out that JG's individual play was also at the same level as Purdy's in 2022...with the same team.

 

[KingintheNorth]

If you watch Spring football or any version of the developmental leagues over the past few years, it seems clear that there is a shortage of human beings that are capable of playing the Quarterback position at a high level.

This is how you get Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, and yes, Dak Prescott,getting paid at a level most fans would reserve for John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady caliber QBs.

 

[Rockport]

Weren’t you commenting on his theoretical proposition? What if Brady was drafted by the Browns proposition?

No I was commenting on @mr_honeybadger saying Brady wasn’t elite. You don’t get that kinda laugh just anywhere.

 

[Blitzen]

No harm throwing your opinion out there on this board, we’re all anonymous. Most don’t care what others think here anyway. I don’t view posting on this board as necessarily time wasting. If you’re not enjoying something, it’s a waste of time. I enjoy the time I spend here for the most part but when my opinion differs greatly from someone else’s, it’s better to move on. It’s not like we’re going to change each other’s opinion. However, your response did make a little more sense than your OP.

Oh, I like discussing differing points of view (even large differences). I would get bored pretty quickly if everyone I was discussing with was pretty similarly opinionated and similar perspectives. I mean time wasting in a good way-shooting the shizz can be therapeutic in a way but we aren’t curing cancer or helping society, .

 

[KJJ]

Oh, I like discussing differing points of view (even large differences). I would get bored pretty quickly if everyone I was discussing with was pretty similarly opinionated and similar perspectives. I mean time wasting in a good way-shooting the shizz can be therapeutic in a way but we aren’t curing cancer or helping society, .

We agree on this one!

 

[Blitzen]

No I was commenting on @mr_honeybadger saying Brady wasn’t elite. You don’t get that kinda laugh just anywhere.

I guess I cannot see where he says Brady was not elite during his career. I just saw some theoretical proposition about how Brady’s career may have gone if drafted by the Browns instead.

 

[75boyz]

Which head coach is paired with that elite QB has a definite impact on overall team success.

The successful team pairings of elite QBs with elite HCs in the past twenty years is the most obvious common denominator to post season wins.

As for those successful duos I'm referring to, the 2 positions, HC and QB, most often complimented each other's skills with their individual roles.

The true indicator of which position was the more individually impactful on team sucess was shown once that elite QB was traded or retired.

The NFL still begins and ends with getting that elite QB.

Unfortunately we are not even close with our current HC or QB.

The current Dallas HC absolutely under-achieved with his previous first ballot HOF QB in his prime only winning one ring.

Neither of them are bringing a trophy to Dallas.

 

[Wizarus]

I think we were just spoiled in the previous era. Brady, the Mannings, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, even guys like Romo, Rivers, Flacco, Newton and others. Those days are gone.

 

[Bobhaze]

I’ve deleted several comments here. Knock off the insults before benchings are issued.

 

[gtb1943]

It wasn’t much of a risk for those teams because they didn’t have much at QB. Tampa certainly didn’t take a risk dumping Jameis Winston who had led them to three straight losing seasons. All he did was turn the ball over. Jared Goff’s numbers began to decline as soon as he signed the big contract and the Rams saw an opportunity to get a better QB. It wasn’t that big of risk moving on from Goff and bringing in a much more productive QB in Stafford. He was putting up huge numbers on bad Detroit teams so the Rams figured if they put a lot of talent around him he could thrive. None of those teams that moved on from their QB had one as good as the one we have. We would be taking a huge risk trying to improve on what we have at the position and that’s a fact! We have nothing behind him that’s better and we certainly aren’t going to find anyone better in free agency and the draft is a complete crapshoot.

your facts are opinions

 

[gtb1943]

Those claiming its a huge risk moving beyond Dak are clearly those that really do not care about winning another SB

 

[Hadenough]

I see so many media and people on this board that post how there are not enough competent starting QB’s in the league and I fully call BS. I think there is a shortage of elite QB’s in the league and always has been (and will be). I think there are only 1-3 QB’s in any year that are so good that they can make good squads great. There are levels of QB’s, but I think most QB’s belong in the second tier of QB’s (if they are on an NFL roster for more than 4 seasons).

I think most QB’s are on poor rosters and never get the chance to actually show they can competently start in this league. Washington has not been a good squad for decades, but they were not a Dak Prescott away from being a winning club. They have been a poorly (the most poorly) run franchise since the mid to late 90’s-that may change for the most part because of new ownership (front office)-not because of the QB just picked.

Maybe front offices/coaching staffs are charged with needing such high levels of success, that they force high picks on QB’s and cannot adequately surround them with enough talent in the time given to them. After 2-3 years the rebuilding process begins again with new coaches, QB, and sometimes FO. The old QB (though probably fewer than 5 years in the league) becomes a backup somewhere and might get another chance if the stars align correctly (hello Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield). Baker is a pretty good case study as he performed very well with Tampa Bay last season, but yet was terrible with Carolina the season prior. The point is that the overall team construction could be causing the fallacy of believing these teams really need a franchise QB-when in fact it could mean the team just sucks as a roster and needs to be rebuilt properly and likely patiently.

What say you? Franchise (but not elite) QB’s are super important to winning-or is it that teams just need much better construction and sometimes better patience on building the whole roster. Take SF-is their success more a result of their overall roster talent and coaching-or is a huge piece of it the greatness that is Mr. Irrelevant. I truly believe Brock Purdy would not have fared much (if any) better than Bryce Young in Carolina last season. The term franchise QB is just a media driven term to make people think about head to head battles as though the QB’s actually compete against one another and not the opposing team’s defense.

Take the early 2000’s Cowboys’ teams. Were they good teams just waiting for a Dak Prescott or Tony Romo to make them great? Or were those teams poorly constructed and coached? Yeah, again I am of the opinion that those teams were destined to finish towards the bottom of the league because of overall roster construction, draft capital (and strategy), coaching, and front office decision making.

Yes there are only a few select elite QBs but you have a series of 10- 12 getting paid like they are one of those top 3. That has to stop.

 

[Tussinman]

I think we were just spoiled in the previous era. Brady, the Mannings, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, even guys like Romo, Rivers, Flacco, Newton and others. Those days are gone.

Good point. 2008 and 2009 season you had 8 hall of fame quarterbacks all playing at the same time and another 2 (romo and mcnabb) that are "hall of very good".