Shortage in elite QB's

Blitzen

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I compare to Jimmy to show how far apart they are. Purdy was a legit MVP candidate. Jimmy never has been and he reaped the same benefits as Jimmy did. The team success may be the same but the players are not. Every successful quarterback benefits from some sort of advantage. If they didn’t? They wouldn’t have any success

Yeah, but my original point was-is the franchise QB this heavily sought after asset that equates to team success? If one player produces MVP stats, the other meh stats-but the team produces identical results in the postseason and regular season-what difference does it make and does it prove that the overall roster is the bigger determining factor in the team’s success?
 

Qcard

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I see so many media and people on this board that post how there are not enough competent starting QB’s in the league and I fully call BS. I think there is a shortage of elite QB’s in the league and always has been (and will be). I think there are only 1-3 QB’s in any year that are so good that they can make good squads great. There are levels of QB’s, but I think most QB’s belong in the second tier of QB’s (if they are on an NFL roster for more than 4 seasons).

I think most QB’s are on poor rosters and never get the chance to actually show they can competently start in this league. Washington has not been a good squad for decades, but they were not a Dak Prescott away from being a winning club. They have been a poorly (the most poorly) run franchise since the mid to late 90’s-that may change for the most part because of new ownership (front office)-not because of the QB just picked.

Maybe front offices/coaching staffs are charged with needing such high levels of success, that they force high picks on QB’s and cannot adequately surround them with enough talent in the time given to them. After 2-3 years the rebuilding process begins again with new coaches, QB, and sometimes FO. The old QB (though probably fewer than 5 years in the league) becomes a backup somewhere and might get another chance if the stars align correctly (hello Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield). Baker is a pretty good case study as he performed very well with Tampa Bay last season, but yet was terrible with Carolina the season prior. The point is that the overall team construction could be causing the fallacy of believing these teams really need a franchise QB-when in fact it could mean the team just sucks as a roster and needs to be rebuilt properly and likely patiently.

What say you? Franchise (but not elite) QB’s are super important to winning-or is it that teams just need much better construction and sometimes better patience on building the whole roster. Take SF-is their success more a result of their overall roster talent and coaching-or is a huge piece of it the greatness that is Mr. Irrelevant. I truly believe Brock Purdy would not have fared much (if any) better than Bryce Young in Carolina last season. The term franchise QB is just a media driven term to make people think about head to head battles as though the QB’s actually compete against one another and not the opposing team’s defense.

Take the early 2000’s Cowboys’ teams. Were they good teams just waiting for a Dak Prescott or Tony Romo to make them great? Or were those teams poorly constructed and coached? Yeah, again I am of the opinion that those teams were destined to finish towards the bottom of the league because of overall roster construction, draft capital (and strategy), coaching, and front office decision making.
Ehhh....reposition the narrative.

We've had decades of the media and fans annointing QBs to Elite Status based on Conference Championships appearances or Superbowl Losses....Participation Era's Greatest Outcome!!

There is only One Elite QB - Patrick Mahomes the rest are figments of the creators imaginations and Hopes

/Old forum style off

Dak Hater's Narrative 2021....cAn'T bUiLd A ConTEnDiNg tEAm ArOunD Dak $40M pER ...Jerry won't be able to luck into players :laugh: :lmao:
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Yeah, but my original point was-is the franchise QB this heavily sought after asset that equates to team success? If one player produces MVP stats, the other meh stats-but the team produces identical results in the postseason and regular season-what difference does it make and does it prove that the overall roster is the bigger determining factor in the team’s success?
I mean they got to the SB lol…..the result was they lost to a Mahomes led Chiefs team.

I guess I’m getting lost here so you don’t feel the 49ers are better equipped now with Purdy then with Jimmy?
 

Blitzen

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Ehhh....reposition the narrative.

We've had decades of the media and fans annointing QBs to Elite Status based on Conference Championships appearances or Superbowl Losses....Participation Era's Greatest Outcome!!

There is only One Elite QB - Patrick Mahomes the rest are figments of the creators imaginations and Hopes

/Old forum style off

Dak Hater's Narrative 2021....cAn'T bUiLd A ConTEnDiNg tEAm ArOunD Dak $40M pER ...Jerry won't be able to luck into players :laugh: :lmao:

Yeah, but what say you to the proposition that franchise QB’s are made out to be these diamonds in the rough? Since Pat is the only elite one in your book, how hard is it to find a tier two QB? Is it the franchise QB or overall roster that is more responsible for a team’s overall success?
 

Bobhaze

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Yeah, but my original point was-is the franchise QB this heavily sought after asset that equates to team success? If one player produces MVP stats, the other meh stats-but the team produces identical results in the postseason and regular season-what difference does it make and does it prove that the overall roster is the bigger determining factor in the team’s success?
I think the fantasy football experience has influenced how many fans see rosters. They see players as a collection of stars as opposed to a real football team that is the sum of all its parts.

There is no doubt that QB is the most important position on a football team. You have to have at least a good QB to win playoff games. But if you don’t surround even an excellent QB with a really good roster, it’s extremely difficult to win a championship or even multiple playoff games.

Guys like Dan Marino, Dan Fouts and even Aaron Rodgers have shown you can’t win with just a great QB. Marino and Fouts are HOFers with no SB rings. Rodgers is a future HOFer with one ring. Why? Because they did not have enough help, especially on defense.

Even this last chiefs SB win showed that Mahomes doesn’t win that game without that great chiefs D holding the niners to 10 points in the first half while the chiefs offense was asleep in the first half. Even great QBs need rosters around them to support them.
 

MountaineerCowboy

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There's no shortage bonafide losers that will never sniff a Super Bowl at the QB position though.
 

Blitzen

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I mean they got to the SB lol…..the result was they lost to a Mahomes led Chiefs team.

I guess I’m getting lost here so you don’t feel the 49ers are better equipped now with Purdy then with Jimmy?

I don’t think they are WAYYY better equipped, no. If he produces SB wins with the team (whilst playing the position extremely well during the postseason), then they are WAYYY better equipped. If he does not, and they lose players and the team never reaches their ultimate goal then it’s just a matter of much ado about nothing. The stats and individual awards will prove that his contributions do not matter much more than everyone else’s with regards to team success.
 

Bobhaze

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Dak has a decent enough supporting cast that has helped this franchise to 3 seasons of winning 12 games.
No doubt. Decent enough but I would argue it’s not good enough on defense and has not consistently had even a good running game.

Don’t get me wrong, Dak deserves plenty of criticism. He was bad against SF twice in the playoffs and against GB last year. But those who act like the playoff failures are 100% on him are being short sighted or disingenuous.

I’m not against moving on from Dak if we get something better but what are the odds of that happening with a front office that hasn’t drafted a QB in round one in 34 years?
 

Qcard

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Yeah, but what say you to the proposition that franchise QB’s are made out to be these diamonds in the rough?
I say using terms like "diamonds in the rough" for QBs in the current CBA is preposterous.

Our mindset should be Current Market value for QBs.

Some think Prescott is not worth the value of having a proven competent QB.

They hope Jerry Jones can find a diamond in the rough.

Will Jerry Jones pay the current market value for a proven QB if Prescott leaves?

Or will Jerry Jones trade a 3rd for Drew Henson, a 4th for Trey Lance?

If we ever get the chance to draft the next Trevor Lawrence with NIL $$$ negotiating money will Stephen pay $70M for the Dak Haters next narratives?

Since Pat is the only elite one in your book, how hard is it to find a tier two QB?
It's not hard there is only ONE Patrick Mahomes...

But their are many proven QBs with Current Market Value contracts...Allen, Lamar, Watson, Herbert, Prescott, Burrow.
Is it the franchise QB or overall roster that is more responsible for a team’s overall success?
Team Leadership is the most important to overall success.

Team Leadership has failed at the Playoff level.
 

Bobhaze

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Why is this a narrative on Purdy? We have never seen him play on any other team to make such a claim.
I’m just making the case that Purdy has the best overall roster in the NFC and the last two years had an outstanding defense and running game. Not saying he‘s terrible. But I am saying he is greatly aided by a roster he wouldn’t have on any other NFC team. It’s hard to imagine Purdy being as good on a team like the cardinals or the commanders.
 

acr731

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We have won a Super Bowl since they have. Quit bringing that team up. I don’t care about conference championships. That’s not the goal. Once they win something, I’ll consider what they have done
This is a lame argument. SF has been to 3 super bowls in the last 11 years. Dallas has 2 playoff wins. Are you suggesting SF hasn't accomplished anything since 1995? They have also been to 6 NFCCG's since 1995 but I guess that doesn't matter either, right?
 

Blitzen

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Why is this a narrative on Purdy? We have never seen him play on any other team to make such a claim.

SF immediately struggled when Trent Williams and Deebo missed time last season-against Cleveland and Minnesota. Purdy looked mediocre even with all that talent around. Shows how dependent he is on that entire roster being healthy and playing well. The team goes as the roster goes-and Purdy is just a cog in the thing.
 

Praxit

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..in my book, only Mahomes has that throne. Everyone else falls unto good QB column.

Better question would be. "What makes an Elite QB?".
 

Qcard

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This is a lame argument. SF has been to 3 super bowls in the last 11 years. Dallas has 2 playoff wins. Are you suggesting SF hasn't accomplished anything since 1995?
According to 49ers Standards....they've accomplished NOTHING!!

How old are you?

Dak Haters will downgrade the Great 49ers legacy to prop up the Participation Era QBs... :laugh: :lmao: :thumbdown:
 

acr731

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According to 49ers Standards....they've accomplished nothing...
How old are you?

Dak Haters will downgrade the Great 49ers legacy to prop up the Participation Era QBs... :laugh: :lmao: :thumbdown:
Was I talking about Dak? I wasn't and neither was the person I responded to, so why did you feel the need to jump to his defense?
 
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