Sign Jonathan Martin

[WV Cowboy]

Stand up to the bully verbally. Tell authorities. Continue to do so until action is taken.

That's a good start! Hopefully that will work.

But when a bully is kicking someone's butt daily, the "do so until action is taken" part gets old pretty quick.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I will pass on the question. I am not much for bluster.

You just answered my question.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You just answered my question.

If you say so. you try way too hard with the macho routine. that is what speaks to me.

 

[starfrombirth]

Again, you are not dealing with your typical HS bully. You have had an MD come on here and explain that a sociopath or anti social escalates rather than back down. Instead they double down and focus all their attention on the threat. You seem incredibly naive to think you can retaliate and good things will ensue.

Dr. Spock had an MD as well and now many social and behavioral "experts" are trending away from his idea of discipline or lack thereof.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dr. Spock had an MD as well and now many social and behavioral "experts" are trending away from his idea of discipline or lack thereof.

Nice strawman. When I start referring to Spock then let me know.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Sorry but no. I am not interested in a guy whose so weak minded as an adult that he allowed himself to be bullied and bullied to the point that he quit playing the game he supposedly loves.

Sorry this team doesn't need anymore frail players, mentally or physically.

 

[starfrombirth]

You said the woman comparison first. You opened that can of worms. Making an argument and in your next statement contradicting it makes you look the sophist.

In 2012, when the abuse began, Martin was a rookie and Incognito was a team leader. You really should read the report.

He used the woman reference in context of sexual harassment not bullying and abusive behavior. Do you think we are all idiots because we don't have phd's or do you just hope so? You seem like that guy on "Good Will Hunting" who spouts some BS he pulled out of a textbook that day and then spouts it like gospel and hopes no one else is smart enough to counter it. You like to point out logical fallacies in other people's arguments. Aren't you guilty of one with the above statement? Hold on... I'll go look on the internet and come back and spout it at you so I can sound smart too.

 

[Wayne02]

He used the woman reference in context of sexual harassment not bullying and abusive behavior. Do you think we are all idiots because we don't have phd's or do you just hope so? You seem like that guy on "Good Will Hunting" who spouts some BS he pulled out of a textbook that day and then spouts it like gospel and hopes no one else is smart enough to counter it. You like to point out logical fallacies in other people's arguments. Aren't you guilty of one with the above statement? Hold on... I'll go look on the internet and come back and spout it at you so I can sound smart too.

Yes he used the appeal to authority fallacy.

 

[WV Cowboy]

If you say so. you try way too hard with the macho routine. that is what speaks to me.

If you consider standing up for yourself "macho", .. then yes.

But I don't.

Trust me, I am not, and have never been macho.

But I have always had something inside me, .. that I can't explain, .. that forces me to always stand up for myself.
I'm soon to be 60, ... it has always worked for me.

 

[Doomsday101]

Actually he did say something to them especially after the first offseason when he started to reach out to friends and family. You should read the report.

Friends and family? people who have nothing to do with what is taking place. Would help if you talk to the person himself. Based on text between the 2 they have a relationship went out and hung out and each other houses and yet at no point does he discuss with them. Great to accuse someone of bullying and party with them. Sorry if someone is bullying me I sure as hell do not hang out with them away from the field.But he told mommy so that makes his action right. I think it is totally irresponsible for him to say nothing to incoginto but instead party with him and when all of a sudden you don't like it you don't bother to say anything no just act like a 2 faced liar.

 

[starfrombirth]

Nice strawman. When I start referring to Spock then let me know.

Explain how this is a strawman fallacy as well genius.
Definition:
A fallacy in which an opponent's argument is overstated or misrepresented in order to be more easily attacked or refuted.

Spock was the first pediatrician to study psychoanalysis to try to understand children's needs and family dynamics. His ideas about childcare influenced several generations of parents to be more flexible and affectionate with their children, and to treat them as individuals. In addition to his pediatric work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Spock)

If necessary I can site references that further support my other statement in how society in general and medicine specifically no longer wholly agree with his philosophy.

In which way did I exaggerate or overstate. Dr. Spock is generally regarded as the father of modern day child discipline techniques which decry the use of negative aspects of punishment.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes, you have no clue about what goes on in locker rooms and it is apparent that you have never been in a locker room type of environment. Martin has had issues since high school, meaning, that the "bullying" wasn't the cause for his problems, he already had problems before he got to the NFL. The other guy who was being harrassed didn't seem to feel the need to walk away or engage himself with the kind of grotesque things off the field with the supposed "boogeyman" Incognito.

True this took place in High school and college with him as well. Martin has issues no question about it. They teased him and guess what everyone in that setting gets teased. It just so happens others are able to deal with it mentally and Martin can't.

 

[starfrombirth]

Yes he used the appeal to authority fallacy.

Nowhere do i recall him saying that a women who joins in sexually harassing jokes and then crying sexual harassment is the same as a woman who is beaten and abused by her much larger and stronger husband the same. If he did, I apologize for the defense, but that isn't what I took from the statement.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He used the woman reference in context of sexual harassment not bullying and abusive behavior. Do you think we are all idiots because we don't have phd's or do you just hope so? You seem like that guy on "Good Will Hunting" who spouts some BS he pulled out of a textbook that day and then spouts it like gospel and hopes no one else is smart enough to counter it. You like to point out logical fallacies in other people's arguments. Aren't you guilty of one with the above statement? Hold on... I'll go look on the internet and come back and spout it at you so I can sound smart too.

He brought up the comparison to women. It is what it is and I fail to see how the comparisons differing in some other capacity changes that. It's a comparison and not a equation.

I am going to leave the rest of that alone.

 

[Wayne02]

Nowhere do i recall him saying that a women who joins in sexually harassing jokes and then crying sexual harassment is the same as a woman who is beaten and abused by her much larger and stronger husband the same. If he did, I apologize for the defense, but that isn't what I took from the statement.

Huh? I'm confused.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Explain how this is a strawman fallacy as well genius.
Definition:
A fallacy in which an opponent's argument is overstated or misrepresented in order to be more easily attacked or refuted.

Spock was the first pediatrician to study psychoanalysis to try to understand children's needs and family dynamics. His ideas about childcare influenced several generations of parents to be more flexible and affectionate with their children, and to treat them as individuals. In addition to his pediatric work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Spock)

If necessary I can site references that further support my other statement in how society in general and medicine specifically no longer wholly agree with his philosophy.

In which way did I exaggerate or overstate. Dr. Spock is generally regarded as the father of modern day child discipline techniques which decry the use of negative aspects of punishment.

You have to be trolling me. We aren't talking about raising children.

The only one bringing up child rearing and Spocks views is you guys. We have been talking about abusive relationships and sociopaths. They are different topics yet you bring up Spock and attack him. That is how it is a strawman.

And if it helps, I think negative reinforcement is effective in many situations. I am just not interested in the macho 'this is what I would do' nonsense.

The Dolphins made a huge mistake in choosing Incognito for a leadership position.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They should have made Charles Haley a defensive captain.

 

[Doomsday101]

McKinnie also refuted the report's findings, stopping short of using the word "bullying" to represent the team's beleaguered locker-room culture or attitude toward Martin.

"I don't feel like bullying was the term because I don't feel like nobody physically harmed (Martin) or made him do anything," McKinnie told SiriusXM NFL Radio on Monday. "He always had an option to say yes or no. It was never like he got bullied and he was fearing for his life."



In addition, McKinnie discussed the 1,000-plus text messages exchanged between Martin and Incognito from October 2012 to November 2013, while questioning Martin's decision to seek help outside of the Dolphins' auspices.

"It went from keeping it to yourself to just letting the whole world know how you feel. So now you kind of blindsided some of our coaches and everybody, because everybody wasn't aware," McKinnie said. "If you're sending messages back and stuff, and you're kind of joking and they think you're joking back with them, they don't see it either. I just think it was a lack of communication."

McKinnie opined that in an attempt to return to the NFL, Martin might even face some reluctant suitors.

"Some people might look at Jon as well, 'He might be too sensitive for this environment, and we don't know, emotionally, if he's emotionally stable enough to do this.' So I don't know," McKinnie said.

 

[Doomsday101]

They should have made Charles Haley a defensive captain.

Irvin spoke about standing up to Dallas Cowboys teammate Charles Haley one time.

"Charles Haley came in with trouble, but he was also a big part of the team and a captain," Irvin said on "NFL Total Access Kickoff."

 

[AbeBeta]

That's a good start! Hopefully that will work.

But when a bully is kicking someone's butt daily, the "do so until action is taken" part gets old pretty quick.

It does work when the authorities are trained to intervene. It doesn't work when the authorities are part of the bullying. It doesn't work when the GM tells your agent to fight the bully instead of actually doing anything.

What you fail to admit is that there is a reason many victims don't stand up and fight bullies -- because they are afraid of what is going to happen if they do. Martin likely was never in a fight in his life. Being 300 lbs makes no difference if you have no idea how to fight. Incognito would likely have destroyed him. All that would do is escalate the bullying.