Skins tried to trade Jason Cambell today for a 2nd rounder

Skinsmaniac

Boycotting Snyder since 2009
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
0
Joe Rod;2715352 said:
So they got two free agents. That still does not address their need at the other Guard spot, Right Tackle and Defensive End, where they are subpar with no true depth. Carter is the best end that they have right now and he is a JAG with no upside at this point in his career. If they gave away their one and three, how exactly would they replenish? I will repost an earlier qoute that I used since you conveniently ignored it (from About.com, but CBS Sports and the Bleacher Report say pretty much the same thing).

At a minimum, Dallas has average and above at all starting spots on their Offensive and Defensive Lines, plus plenty of picks remaining for depth. If the Skins had made that trade, they would still be left with subpar talent in a lot of spots and little to no depth. No real ammunition would be left to move up anywhere noteworthy in this draft, because they would have needed to include their #1 in 2010 to get Cutler.

It's just not a good comparison for you to make.
I agree that we need a youth infusion on our lines. However, I think you are taking it a little far. I believe that Randy Thomas still has a few years left at guard, so I wouldn't draft a guard this year or next, except maybe in the 3rd or 4th for depth. My ideal pick would be a LT who could replace Samuels in a year or two and man the RT in the meantime, or who could push Samuels over to RT. If the transition to RT would be too difficult for them, I'd be ok still drafting the LT and going one more year with Stephon Heyer at RT with Jansen backing him up, and hopefully we could draft a RT next year.

I'm more optimistic about our defensive line. In addition to Haynesworth we have two average starting caliber players at DT in Montgomery and Golston who have both started for us and are both young. So when Cornelius Griffin breaks down, we have his replacement ready. Our system just doesn't emphasize sacks, so we always seem to have these big, run stuffing DEs like Phillip Daniels. I'd be ok going into this season with Daniels and Carter, and using our #1 next year on a DE or LB. Hopefully we don't try to fill all of our holes in one offseason.
 

Bob Sacamano

Benched
Messages
57,084
Reaction score
3
Skinsmaniac;2715403 said:
I agree that we need a youth infusion on our lines. However, I think you are taking it a little far. I believe that Randy Thomas still has a few years left at guard, so I wouldn't draft a guard this year or next, except maybe in the 3rd or 4th for depth. My ideal pick would be a LT who could replace Samuels in a year or two and man the RT in the meantime, or who could push Samuels over to RT. If the transition to RT would be too difficult for them, I'd be ok still drafting the LT and going one more year with Stephon Heyer at RT with Jansen backing him up, and hopefully we could draft a RT next year.

I'm more optimistic about our defensive line. In addition to Haynesworth we have two average starting caliber players at DT in Montgomery and Golston who have both started for us and are both young. So when Cornelius Griffin breaks down, we have his replacement ready. Our system just doesn't emphasize sacks, so we always seem to have these big, run stuffing DEs like Phillip Daniels. I'd be ok going into this season with Daniels and Carter, and using our #1 next year on a DE or LB. Hopefully we don't try to fill all of our holes in one offseason.

3 words:

Corne

lius

Lewis
 

Skinsmaniac

Boycotting Snyder since 2009
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
0
JerryAdvocate;2715410 said:
3 words:

Corne

lius

Lewis
I don't really know much about him or any college player. I've been assuming that the Skins will grab Andre Smith because he has a big name. Is Lewis expected to be a 1st round pick? We don't have a #2.
 

Bob Sacamano

Benched
Messages
57,084
Reaction score
3
Skinsmaniac;2715427 said:
I don't really know much about him or any college player. I've been assuming that the Skins will grab Andre Smith because he has a big name. Is Lewis expected to be a 1st round pick? We don't have a #2.

no, more like 5-6th rounder

I know you guys only have 4 picks every year, but it would do you good to pay a little attention to the draft
 

Skinsmaniac

Boycotting Snyder since 2009
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
0
JerryAdvocate;2715428 said:
no, more like 5-6th rounder

I know you guys only have 4 picks every year, but it would do you good to pay a little attention to the draft
Why bother when I can just read the reports from all the professional scouts on this board. Patrick Chung!
 

JohnnyHopkins

This is a house of learned doctors
Messages
11,302
Reaction score
3,610
Skinsmaniac;2715403 said:
I agree that we need a youth infusion on our lines. However, I think you are taking it a little far. I believe that Randy Thomas still has a few years left at guard, so I wouldn't draft a guard this year or next, except maybe in the 3rd or 4th for depth. My ideal pick would be a LT who could replace Samuels in a year or two and man the RT in the meantime, or who could push Samuels over to RT. If the transition to RT would be too difficult for them, I'd be ok still drafting the LT and going one more year with Stephon Heyer at RT with Jansen backing him up, and hopefully we could draft a RT next year.

I'm more optimistic about our defensive line. In addition to Haynesworth we have two average starting caliber players at DT in Montgomery and Golston who have both started for us and are both young. So when Cornelius Griffin breaks down, we have his replacement ready. Our system just doesn't emphasize sacks, so we always seem to have these big, run stuffing DEs like Phillip Daniels. I'd be ok going into this season with Daniels and Carter, and using our #1 next year on a DE or LB. Hopefully we don't try to fill all of our holes in one offseason.


I'm not hating on the Skins, just pointing out that they need to use those Draft picks on line-men much more than Dallas would this year because another poster was offering up that if the Skins traded their early picks away on Cutler, that they would be in no different situation than Dallas.

The Facts are that Defensive lines consistently got penetration last year on the Skins O-line and the Commander Defense had horrible sack production (in general and from the ends).

On Offense: Randy Thomas can probably be serviceable (for this year), but the position could use young body in the middle rounds. Your RT is in BIG need of an infusion. Jansen was a great player, but he is done and Heyer is a serviceable back-up, but not Starter material (See Corey Proctor in Dallas last year as an example). Pressure on Campbell all day from that spot if they don't address it early.

On the D-Line, Phillip Daniels is old (35, I believe) and coming off of an injury that kept him out last year. Not a good gamble to have him as your starter. Carter is a good player as I've said in previous posts. Haynesworth is a beast and will command double teams, but teams will do it gladly because they will not fear the pass rushing ability of the Ends.

Don't you also need a replacement for Marcus Washington (not sure if the skins signed one in FA)?
 

Skinsmaniac

Boycotting Snyder since 2009
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
0
Joe Rod;2715462 said:
I'm not hating on the Skins, just pointing out that they need to use those Draft picks on line-men much more than Dallas would this year because another poster was offering up that if the Skins traded their early picks away on Cutler, that they would be in no different situation than Dallas.

The Facts are that Defensive lines consistently got penetration last year on the Skins O-line and the Commander Defense had horrible sack production (in general and from the ends).

On Offense: Randy Thomas can probably be serviceable (for this year), but the position could use young body in the middle rounds. Your RT is in BIG need of an infusion. Jansen was a great player, but he is done and Heyer is a serviceable back-up, but not Starter material (See Corey Proctor in Dallas last year as an example). Pressure on Campbell all day from that spot if they don't address it early.

On the D-Line, Phillip Daniels is old (35, I believe) and coming off of an injury that kept him out last year. Not a good gamble to have him as your starter. Carter is a good player as I've said in previous posts. Haynesworth is a beast and will command double teams, but teams will do it gladly because they will not fear the pass rushing ability of the Ends.

Don't you also need a replacement for Marcus Washington (not sure if the skins signed one in FA)?
HB Blades started when Washington was injured and played well. We need to find some depth at LB though. There's also the possibility that Washington will be re-signed. You're right about our ends, but I hope we go for one more year with the guys we have (we also signed renaldo wynn another old run-stuffing DE) and draft a DE next year.
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
AbeBeta;2715320 said:
First, you are mistaking me for those morons on the board who think the Williams deal was bad. I think it was a good trade -- we might have given up a tiny bit more than I am comfortable with but not much.
No, I was thinking you don't know the difference between 11 picks with 1 on day 1 and 4 in the first 4 rounds between a 5th, 6th, and 7th if they do that deal.

Just like we don't have a bunch of high picks - they've got fewer but they also addressed issues with two FA signings.
As did we, and a trade thrown in. I maintain we addressed our biggest needs by releasing 2 guys.

Do they not have picks? Sure. Is there no chance of them acquiring more picks? I know you are likely banking on us packaging our picks to move up for players - do you discount their ability to do the same using 2010 picks? Seems like every year they are trading away future picks -- why would you expect that they would change paths and sit this one out?
One of the picks they would give up to get Cutler would be 2010's 1st pick. It would severely alter their abilities to accomplish what the original contention was. Regardless of that, we still have 2010 picks too the last time I checked so your own point here completely erases the point you were trying to make and failed to do so.

Are you of the opinion that they can use 2010 picks to shore up OL and DL, but we can't do that?

See how far off base you really were?

Hos - we all know you get all horny for the draft and hope springs eternal for you leading up to it. I think everyone knows you are an old crusty ******* -- I said that with affection not as an insult. And everyone here knows you go all giddy around draft time. Amusing is all it is -- take it as an insult if you want but if you do, it will suggest that you are the one with the panty problem.
I didn't take it as an insult as evidenced by the fact I called myself that twice.

Horny does not begin to cover my love of the draft. You sell me short.

I already gave my bunched up panties a tug, but they were just affected my general comfort, not cutting off circulation to the brain.

Where exactly was I "forgetting about players" -- the poster said last few years and I talked about the last three -- those seem most relevant to "last few"
If you say we show failings at some aspect of Drafting players and fail to recognize players who did work out then I label that as forgetting about players. You see, some people have a habit of only including the crap that they think stinks. They forget to see the roses that the fertilizer grows.

Jay Ratliff
Marion Barber
Orlando Scandrick
Tashard Choice
Chris Canty
et al

Instead you mention Whitney, and Stanley, and Bates. Color it any way you want it, that's selective evidence at best and you know it.

You can cherry pick late round picks who did well but it is obvious that we've missed a ton more than we've hit. Just like most teams in the league. Everyone find that occasional diamond in that pile of coal. That doesn't mean we should count on finding one.
This is laughable. Name five teams that hit more than miss on late round picks. No forget it, that's too hard. Name one.

Dang, that may be too hard too. Sorry, but it's your point, not mine.

It comes down to this -- as the picks stand would we have a better chance to build up compared to the Skins -- sure -- but with the abundance of late picks we've got nothing more than a slim advantage over them.
Funny how this begins to look more like the points we were making and less like the point you didn't make.

Going from Polyanna to an ******* (actually the word I used didn't start with a vowel) -- just to prove you aren't? Clever.
It didn't start with a Vowel? Did it start with the letter B? I was counting 7 letters and laughing at the time.

Actually, I'm often very abrasive when I think people are being ridiculous. I at least try to be funny rather than just outright name calling. The homorous thing to me is I get accused by the "homers" of being a hater because I am critical of certain players, coaches, or moves. On the flip side I get accused by the "haters" of being a homer because I deign to have the audacity to actually understand the role of a General Manager in the NFL, and not simply shout into the wind with them. Pollyanna because it is April is new, but every bit as wrong as the other two.

Clever? Oh yeah, devilishly clever. Halo held up by horns imagery and all that jazz.

:wink2:
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
Skinsmaniac;2715443 said:
Why bother when I can just read the reports from all the professional scouts on this board. Patrick Chung!
Maybe because when discussing football it pays to look intelligent and informed?

Just throwing that out there. Plenty of people are content to not know squat about the game and root for colors and logos. If that blows your skirt up that your business.
 

Skinsmaniac

Boycotting Snyder since 2009
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
0
Hostile;2715516 said:
Maybe because when discussing football it pays to look intelligent and informed?

Just throwing that out there. Plenty of people are content to not know squat about the game and root for colors and logos. If that blows your skirt up that your business.
hu·mor (hy
oomacr.gif
prime.gif
m
schwa.gif
r)n.
1.
The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could not see the humor of the situation.
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement:

If you've been researching 6th round draft picks so that you can look intelligent and informed on this board, I salute you. Some of us are willing to admit our limitations. And it most certainly does not pay.
 

AbeBeta

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,680
Reaction score
12,392
Hostile;2715509 said:
No, I was thinking you don't know the difference between 11 picks with 1 on day 1 and 4 in the first 4 rounds between a 5th, 6th, and 7th if they do that deal.

as I see it a ton of really late picks is exciting for the draft maniacs because it means they get to spend hours researching players from Division II schools with great measurables but questionable pasts


Hostile;2715509 said:
As did we, and a trade thrown in. I maintain we addressed our biggest needs by releasing 2 guys.

No argument from me on the releases... but they were looking to do what we did -- address a big need. I doubt very much that we made the Williams trade because we had so many late rounders in our pocket.

Hostile;2715509 said:
One of the picks they would give up to get Cutler would be 2010's 1st pick. It would severely alter their abilities to accomplish what the original contention was. Regardless of that, we still have 2010 picks too the last time I checked so your own point here completely erases the point you were trying to make and failed to do so.

Let's see - they'd need their first round pick to trade for late picks like ours this year. Don't think so. A 4th for a 3rd, etc. You know how that works.

Hostile;2715509 said:
Are you of the opinion that they can use 2010 picks to shore up OL and DL, but we can't do that?

No -- my point was that they would be in a similar boat as us having made that trade. Whereas you are claiming that we are in such better shape b/c we've got a ton of 5th round and later picks

Hostile;2715509 said:
I didn't take it as an insult as evidenced by the fact I called myself that twice.

Awwww. That's sweet


Hostile;2715509 said:
Horny does not begin to cover my love of the draft. You sell me short.

Viva Draft Viagra!

Hostile;2715509 said:
I already gave my bunched up panties a tug, but they were just affected my general comfort, not cutting off circulation to the brain.

If you say we show failings at some aspect of Drafting players and fail to recognize players who did work out then I label that as forgetting about players. You see, some people have a habit of only including the crap that they think stinks. They forget to see the roses that the fertilizer grows.

Jay Ratliff
Marion Barber
Orlando Scandrick
Tashard Choice
Chris Canty
et al

Instead you mention Whitney, and Stanley, and Bates. Color it any way you want it, that's selective evidence at best and you know it.

This is laughable. Name five teams that hit more than miss on late round picks. No forget it, that's too hard. Name one.

Dang, that may be too hard too. Sorry, but it's your point, not mine.

Funny how this begins to look more like the points we were making and less like the point you didn't make.

I'm not arguing that we are terrible at drafting late - the point was that most teams don't hit homeruns drafting late so getting all excited about 5th round and later picks is usually nothing but overrun optimism. Hey speaking of optimism, let's revisit the excitement generated by Montavious Staley! He didn't work out but we sure loved him here for a while.

This isn't about the value of those picks to us it is about the value of those picks in general which I see as relatively low. All they give us is more swings at the pitch with our eyes closed.

Hostile;2715509 said:
It didn't start with a Vowel? Did it start with the letter B? I was counting 7 letters and laughing at the time.

Crusty old... oh, I see how you could have thought it was an A. It was a B.

Hostile;2715509 said:
Actually, I'm often very abrasive when I think people are being ridiculous. I at least try to be funny rather than just outright name calling. The homorous thing to me is I get accused by the "homers" of being a hater because I am critical of certain players, coaches, or moves. On the flip side I get accused by the "haters" of being a homer because I deign to have the audacity to actually understand the role of a General Manager in the NFL, and not simply shout into the wind with them. Pollyanna because it is April is new, but every bit as wrong as the other two.

Clever? Oh yeah, devilishly clever. Halo held up by horns imagery and all that jazz.

:wink2:

"April is new" -- wow that's downright positive.

Crap -- gotta go. Big news from the Giants!!!
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
AbeBeta;2715562 said:
as I see it a ton of really late picks is exciting for the draft maniacs because it means they get to spend hours researching players from Division II schools with great measurables but questionable pasts
Well, no wonder your undies got all in a bunch.

No argument from me on the releases... but they were looking to do what we did -- address a big need. I doubt very much that we made the Williams trade because we had so many late rounders in our pocket.
It makes it a lot easier to do it though.

Let's see - they'd need their first round pick to trade for late picks like ours this year. Don't think so. A 4th for a 3rd, etc. You know how that works.

No -- my point was that they would be in a similar boat as us having made that trade. Whereas you are claiming that we are in such better shape b/c we've got a ton of 5th round and later picks
No, because we have more picks period.

Awwww. That's sweet
Yeah, wasn't it.

Viva Draft Viagra!
Bottle it. Sell it. It works.

I'm not arguing that we are terrible at drafting late - the point was that most teams don't hit homeruns drafting late so getting all excited about 5th round and later picks is usually nothing but overrun optimism. Hey speaking of optimism, let's revisit the excitement generated by Montavious Staley! He didn't work out but we sure loved him here for a while.
You contradicted your first line with the last line. That's exactly what you have been doing.

This isn't about the value of those picks to us it is about the value of those picks in general which I see as relatively low. All they give us is more swings at the pitch with our eyes closed.
I wondered when we'd arrive back at the nonsense level. It came faster than I thought.

Crusty old... oh, I see how you could have thought it was an A. It was a B.
I can't argue this. My biological parents weren't married, therefore I am.

"April is new" -- wow that's downright positive.
I think oyu misread the line pretty badly.

Crap -- gotta go. Big news from the Giants!!!
News about the Giants makes me want to take a crap too.
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
Skinsmaniac;2715536 said:
hu·mor (hy
oomacr.gif
prime.gif
m
schwa.gif
r)n.
1.
The quality that makes something laughable or amusing; funniness: could not see the humor of the situation.
2. That which is intended to induce laughter or amusement:

If you've been researching 6th round draft picks so that you can look intelligent and informed on this board, I salute you. Some of us are willing to admit our limitations. And it most certainly does not pay.
Yeah, that was a knee slapper. My ribs hurt. Stop it, you're killing me. George Carlin didn't die, we found him.[/sarcasm]
 
Top