Some Facts about penalties, the Cowboys, and their opponents

Brooksey

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Speaking of penalties, @Bobhaze what happened to that "10 missed holding calls in the Dolphins game" thread? I commented on them all and there were actually only 3 legit ones and a few laughable ones that proved people don't know what in Hades they're looking at. I did good work in there. Lol.
The moderator deleted it because it was to much to bear or they didn't like the link address etc. Btw, thanks for joining that discussion.

You were wrong on all of them except one but I liked your contribution and was looking forward to discussing with you. Were you a ref?
 

Brooksey

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It’s not for wanting everything called. It’s understanding that calls will be flat-out missed, or because it’s subjective, not called consistently.

Those arguing about the timing/situation of when flags are thrown are actually the ones being disingenuous. Why? Because ifyou don’t want flags thrown in certain game situations you cannot lament when a flag isn’t thrown in what’s perceived to a critical or game changing situation.

Folks acting like they’d be OK with that would be the same ones crying on the threads as they do now after games.

What this all boils down to when you remove the conspiracy nonsense and appeals to ref bias is people are tired of crappy refereeing, to which we all can agree.
The point is when you say calls are subjective, not reviewable yet there's 100M on the game, there's going to be questions.
Trying to fight so hard on why there's questions is kind of odd. Do you work for the NFL, Draft Kings or were you a ref?
 

blueblood70

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I was simply reporting the numbers. Those are facts but as many have stated very well here, the numbers do lack context. But that context goes both ways. If we want to be fair, context should also include when opponents get flagged and when.

Often our emotions as fans blind us to being able to see how the other team occasionally gets screwed too with a bad call or untimely flag. Remember the Seahawks game? They had at least 3 penalties go against them on 3rd or 4th down that cost them potential points and was very much in our benefit. We had a 75 yard drive in the 3rd vs the hawks that was aided by 3 penalties on them. In one drive.

For sure Parsons has been getting screwed on some holding calls and it’s just bad officiating . But all the great ones tend to not get calls. Watch an Aaron Donald game. When we played the rams this year he was held multiple times and it wasn’t called. Watch a Myles Garrett game. Gets held a ton. I’m not arguing Parsons isn’t being held, just saying the refs are bad for a lot of great players.
Look,

it's one thing for them to pass up on some of the holding calls on Parsons that are in their opinion and subjective, which I think is nonsense, but if they want to let those go that's fine with me with the ones where he's being held by two guys where he's being arm barred by two guys, he's literally being held so bad and so out in the open similarly to CD lamb last week having his pants basically pulled off....

I mean you cannot miss those, you cannot hold the flag on those...

It literally makes people question whether they are trying to affect the outcomes of games whether it be true or not it looks like it.

the people claiming a conspiracy that the NFL is rigged , we all know it's not scripted that'd be ridiculously hard to do the wag the dog nonsense because it would have come out by now. However, the referee's have been getting worse every year and seemingly they're so bad that people are starting to think they're colluding with Vegas and that the league is allowing the referees to help nudge a game one way or the other, however they see fit by calling everything subjective...

I've never heard that before, I mean they're telling Parsons we're not calling them because we don't believe you could have got the sack!! that's ridiculous!

I mean how could they say that with a straight face??? I mean you know how many times I've seen a flag drop on a hold on the other side of the field by either a tight end or receiver when the play went the complete other direction they were not in the play at all they're basically decoys and they call they call it they drop a flag well if that's the case where there are flags that did not affect a play like say Parsons couldn't get a sack well those holes didn't matter I mean we've seen holes on the backside of a play on special teams where the player with the ball was long gone 1015 yards up the field and they call a hold behind the play or on the complete other side of the play I mean they're inconsistent that's the problem if they don't wanna call please they don't affect the game because it didn't seem part of the play and even if they didn't commit the foul or not it would not change the oputcome of the pay.

therefore, they didn't want to drop it... So explain to me why do they still call the offensive linemen for being up field on a lot of these RPO's and whatnot , I mean they didn't they weren't downfield blocking they barely were one yard over the allowable limit and it didn't affect the play. we've seen this before where it called back a touchdown or something you remember that flag couple games ago where we're trying to figure out how they called that one in the end zone when we were already on the 1 yard line or something... I mean how do you call that ??it it makes it look like you're affecting the game on purpose!!.

And yes I'm sure it is happening to other great players however it should not be happening to any of them you can let go of the ticky tack ones that's fine with me but the ones that are so blatantly obvious that it makes people jump out of their chairs and scream at their TV's and they start throwing **** and go on a tirade those ones the referees can't miss like the one that was picked up against gallop in the Arizona game is still a head scratcher to me it clearly was pass interference and it was clearly at the time of a game that it was very critical and they wave it off???
 

Nav22

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The only penalties that are killing this team are self inflicted period .

but don't worry mike's gonna get a handle on it.
You didn't hear???

Mike magically forgot how to coach penalties the SECOND he got to Dallas!

Crazy coincidence!!!

Here's where his teams have ranked in penalties since he won the Super Bowl in 2010 with Green Bay.

WITH GREEN BAY
2010: 3rd
2011: T-1st
2012: T-18th
2013: 8th
2014: 7th
2015: T-14th
2016: T-9th
2017: 8th
2018: T-14th

WITH DALLAS
2020: 22nd
2021: 32nd
2022: T-24th
2023: 31st
 

Point-of-the-Star

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There’s been a lot of talk this week about NFL officiating, questions about the NFL rigging games against the Cowboys, etc. I’m on record as someone who believes NFL officiating is certainly bad at times but I do not believe there is some evil conspiracy against the Cowboys. Have the officials missed too many holding calls against Micah Parsons? Yes, for sure. Are they “out to get us”? No.

Here are just the basic facts regarding penalties and the Cowboys.
  • The Cowboys have been flagged 108 times for 910 yards. (2nd most in the NFL)
  • Cowboys’ opponents have been flagged 94 times for 860 yards. (5th most yards for an opponent in the NFL)
  • The difference between Cowboys and their opponents‘ is 12 penalties over 15 games.(Cowboys avg 1.25 more penalties per game than our opponents)
  • The difference in penalty yardage of Cowboys vs our opponents is 50 yards. Over 15 games, that averages 3.33 yards per game difference in penalty yardage between Cowboys and opponents.
Website that contains great info on NFL penalties in 2023: https://www.nflpenalties.com/
I'm going to repeat this again. Pure numbers of penalties or the yardage doesn't even begin to tell the story. Absolutely the bigger story is when and what situation are those penalties called. None of that is contained in those raw stats @Bobhaze.

Just like a 12 yard pass over the middle in the 1st quarter for a 1st down doesn't mean near the same as that same12 yard pass for a 1st down on a drive for a potential game winning score. Each situation carries different weight.

edit: So I go back and read multiple posts essentially making the same point as I tried to make. Not piling on.
 

Praxit

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.. maybe it might be fair to say, cowboys get flagged on most of their big plays. which kills the momentum.
False start no big deal. But a holding penalty on a crucial third down and 15.

..changes everything.
 

gimmesix

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Speaking of penalties, @Bobhaze what happened to that "10 missed holding calls in the Dolphins game" thread? I commented on them all and there were actually only 3 legit ones and a few laughable ones that proved people don't know what in Hades they're looking at. I did good work in there. Lol.
I believe there were four that should have been called and three more that could have been called without anyone batting an eye. (Well, maybe Dolphins fans, but we have plenty here as well who dispute legitimate calls when they are not egregious.) But even three could have made a difference.
 

noshame

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You didn't hear???

Mike magically forgot how to coach penalties the SECOND he got to Dallas!

Crazy coincidence!!!

Here's where his teams have ranked in penalties since he won the Super Bowl in 2010 with Green Bay.

WITH GREEN BAY
2010: 3rd
2011: T-1st
2012: T-18th
2013: 8th
2014: 7th
2015: T-14th
2016: T-9th
2017: 8th
2018: T-14th

WITH DALLAS
2020: 22nd
2021: 32nd
2022: T-24th
2023: 31st
Mike McCarthy's teams got away with holding entire time he was in Green Bay except the final 2 seasons, in which his offense collapsed along with his job.
I'm sorry you weren't aware.
But I'm not surprised.
 

MarcusRock

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The moderator deleted it because it was to much to bear or they didn't like the link address etc. Btw, thanks for joining that discussion.

You were wrong on all of them except one but I liked your contribution and was looking forward to discussing with you. Were you a ref?
Oh dang. It might have been like the YouTube rule about posting original NFL broadcast footage instead of making your own GIF or something.

If you think #9 was a hold (the one involving Lawrence wrongfooting himself) then I have some waterfront property in North Dakota to sell you. Lol. Not a ref but I like discussing what people think they're seeing as egregious fouls that the rules may say otherwise. Mainly, it's anti-whining to show that the rules say one shouldn't be whining about a call. It's seldom effective though. I wonder why. Lol.
 

FVSTONE

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There’s been a lot of talk this week about NFL officiating, questions about the NFL rigging games against the Cowboys, etc. I’m on record as someone who believes NFL officiating is certainly bad at times but I do not believe there is some evil conspiracy against the Cowboys. Have the officials missed too many holding calls against Micah Parsons? Yes, for sure. Are they “out to get us”? No.

Here are just the basic facts regarding penalties and the Cowboys.
  • The Cowboys have been flagged 108 times for 910 yards. (2nd most in the NFL)
  • Cowboys’ opponents have been flagged 94 times for 860 yards. (5th most yards for an opponent in the NFL)
  • The difference between Cowboys and their opponents‘ is 12 penalties over 15 games.(Cowboys avg 1.25 more penalties per game than our opponents)
  • The difference in penalty yardage of Cowboys vs our opponents is 50 yards. Over 15 games, that averages 3.33 yards per game difference in penalty yardage between Cowboys and opponents.
Website that contains great info on NFL penalties in 2023: https://www.nflpenalties.com/
Bobby, I think what is getting FAN'S goat is the fact when the penalties are being called. These penalties being called are drive killing penalties, like the bogus clipping penalty against our center, he got called for a clipping penalty when he actually fell next to his opponent. The On-Air ex-Official even stated that a clipping penalty called was a clean play and the official WAS WRONG for calling it. That killed a great run by I believe Pollard and killed the Cowboy's drive for a TD.
 

MarcusRock

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I believe there were four that should have been called and three more that could have been called without anyone batting an eye. (Well, maybe Dolphins fans, but we have plenty here as well who dispute legitimate calls when they are not egregious.) But even three could have made a difference.
Yeah, there were a clear 3 and I could maybe be talked into a 4th. We'd have to see a Miami fan's take on what was missed to see the total impact but people don't care to do those things when they win. Lol.
 

Runwildboys

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.. maybe it might be fair to say, cowboys get flagged on most of their big plays. which kills the momentum.
False start no big deal. But a holding penalty on a crucial third down and 15.

..changes everything.
Which recent game was it in which we benefitted from penalties (I think it was three times in one drive) that kept us from having to punt, and put us in scoring position? We're not the only team that experiences that phenomenon.

It's perfectly understandable to get fired up in the heat of the moment and blame the refs as being biased, but once we've had a day or three to calm our heads, we should be able to see from a different perspective.
 

Runwildboys

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Oh dang. It might have been like the YouTube rule about posting original NFL broadcast footage instead of making your own GIF or something.

If you think #9 was a hold (the one involving Lawrence wrongfooting himself) then I have some waterfront property in North Dakota to sell you. Lol. Not a ref but I like discussing what people think they're seeing as egregious fouls that the rules may say otherwise. Mainly, it's anti-whining to show that the rules say one shouldn't be whining about a call. It's seldom effective though. I wonder why. Lol.
Can you repost the rule about double team blocks, and how holding is permitted in that case? I was telling a friend, but I can't find the rule. (To be frank, I only tried a couple of things, but since you're available...)

Please :grin:
 

CalPolyTechnique

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The point is when you say calls are subjective, not reviewable yet there's 100M on the game, there's going to be questions.
Trying to fight so hard on why there's questions is kind of odd. Do you work for the NFL, Draft Kings or were you a ref?
Questions are not being posed. Unsubstantiated claims to agendas, conspiracies, and bias are being made.

It's strange you can't tell the difference.
 

Brooksey

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Oh dang. It might have been like the YouTube rule about posting original NFL broadcast footage instead of making your own GIF or something.

If you think #9 was a hold (the one involving Lawrence wrongfooting himself) then I have some waterfront property in North Dakota to sell you. Lol. Not a ref but I like discussing what people think they're seeing as egregious fouls that the rules may say otherwise. Mainly, it's anti-whining to show that the rules say one shouldn't be whining about a call. It's seldom effective though. I wonder why. Lol.
#9 against D-Law was a bear hug/arm bar and it also showed Berrios holding D.Wilsons wrist/arm, pulling him away from the ball carrier.

There were two holds on that play in the hole and at the point of attack
 

CalPolyTechnique

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You didn't hear???

Mike magically forgot how to coach penalties the SECOND he got to Dallas!

Crazy coincidence!!!

Here's where his teams have ranked in penalties since he won the Super Bowl in 2010 with Green Bay.

WITH GREEN BAY
2010: 3rd
2011: T-1st
2012: T-18th
2013: 8th
2014: 7th
2015: T-14th
2016: T-9th
2017: 8th
2018: T-14th

WITH DALLAS
2020: 22nd
2021: 32nd
2022: T-24th
2023: 31st
You magically forgot to include 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009.

I wonder why?
 

MarcusRock

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Can you repost the rule about double team blocks, and how holding is permitted in that case? I was telling a friend, but I can't find the rule. (To be frank, I only tried a couple of things, but since you're available...)

Please :grin:
Sointenly!

RULE 12 PLAYER CONDUCT
SECTION 1 BLOCKING, USE OF HANDS AND ARMS
ARTICLE 3. ILLEGAL BLOCK BY OFFENSIVE PLAYER.
.
.
Blocking Notes:
(1) When a defensive player is held by an offensive player during the following situations, Offensive holding will not be called:
(a) if the runner is being tackled simultaneously by any defensive player;
(b) if the runner simultaneously goes out of bounds;
(c) if a fair catch is made simultaneously;
(d) if the action clearly occurs after a forward pass has been thrown to a receiver beyond the line of scrimmage;
(e) if the action occurs away from the point of attack and not within close-line play;
(f) if a free kick results in a touchback;
(g) if a scrimmage kick simultaneously becomes a touchback;
(h) if the action is part of a double team block, unless the defender splits the double team, gets to the outside of either
blocker, or is taken to the ground; or
(i) if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position
that would normally be holding, unless and until the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the blocker’s action.
(2) If a blocker falls on or pushes down a defender whose momentum is carrying him to the ground, Offensive holding will
not be called unless the blocker prevents the defender from rising from the ground.
(3) If the official has not seen the entire action that sends a defender to the ground, Offensive holding will not be called.
 

Brooksey

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Questions are not being posed. Unsubstantiated claims to agendas, conspiracies, and bias are being made.

It's strange you can't tell the difference.
Those are the questions, that's how most express themselves whether right or wrong.

You can't blame them, blame the process
 
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