Some new evidence in the Zimmerman case

[Romo_To_Dez]

Or maybe they should be mad at their parenting skills that taught TM that it is Ok to attack people. It's not like this is the first time TM has used violence. They have a right to be mad at the person that defended himself from another TM attack, I guess. Maybe they should have taught TM not to go around jumping people. Not saying this is for sure what happened, but more and more evidence is pointing that way.

There are two side to every story. They may have a lot of regret regarding their parenting skill or lack of. Time will tell. Eventually we will get the entire story.

We only have Zimmerman's word that Trayvon actually started the fight and that Zimmerman was just walking back to his truck. The Sole word of the Suspect should never be taken as fact without an investigation. People lie all of the time in cases like this to get off or to get off easier. I don't see how Zimmerman's word should be taken as fact since trayvon is not alive to defend himself it's easy for Zimmerman to twist the situation of what happened to favor him.

A fight happened yes, we don't know who started it.

Yes a family would be angry if they felt like their loved one was walking and making thier own business whent he killer approaches him/her and starts a physically violent/aggresive move towards their loved one and instead of taking it the loved one fights back and gains the upper hand and get killed in a fight that they did not start.


I don't think that it's okay for people with guns going around and starting fights with unarmed people (We dont know who attacked who but I could see this happening) feeling secure in the fact that they have a gun and can shoot and kill and claim Self Defense.

Because even if Zimmerman was defending himself I can see others abusing the law to provoke fights and then trying to get away with murder.

 

[JBond]

Personally, I don't call the cops. I probably would have stood up to Zimmerman and gotten shot. I know. That makes me less of a man than you guys, because you live to tell the hypothetical tale of how you survived by exercising your 2nd amendment.

So your response to someone asking you if you live here is to smash their head repeatedly into the concrete? You asked me the other day why I choose to exercise my second amendment rights. This is one of the major reasons. You never know what will set off a lunatic. Not saying you're crazy, but how you choose to carry yourself appears to bit a bit on the immature side.

What has happened to civility in our society?

You never answered my question. TM was gone...out of sight. Why did he not go home? Zimmerman was clearly alone when talking to 911. Why did TM confront him? He must have thought along the same lines you do. Earlier you mentined Zimmerman's record but fail to mention TM on the other hand was bragging about his manly beating of an old bus driver on social networks to show the world what an tough guy he is.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

We only have Zimmerman's word that Trayvon actually started the fight and that Zimmerman was just walking back to his truck. The Sole word of the Suspect should never be taken as fact without an investigation. People lie all of the time in cases like this to get off or to get off easier. I don't see how Zimmerman's word should be taken as fact since trayvon is not alive to defend himself it's easy for Zimmerman to twist the situation of what happened to favor him.

A fight happened yes, we don't know who started it.

Yes a family would be angry if they felt like their loved one was walking and making thier own business whent he killer approaches him/her and starts a physically violent/aggresive move towards their loved one and instead of taking it the loved one fights back and gains the upper hand and get killed in a fight that they did not start.


I don't think that it's okay for people with guns going around and starting fights with unarmed people (We dont know who attacked who but I could see this happening) feeling secure in the fact that they have a gun and can shoot and kill and claim Self Defense.

Because even if Zimmerman was defending himself I can see others abusing the law to provoke fights and then trying to get away with murder.

Good post. I also think it's nothing of my concern really what happens after the case has begun. The only thing I was suspect about was that he wasn't arrested and that upset me a little.

On the other hand, I think he's in good hands and I think Zimmerman gets a decent deal and learns a tough lesson--the hard way.

Zimmerman doesn't have to take the stand and I don't think he ever will. I don't think his defense lawyer should let him get on the stand. Zimmerman doesn't sound like he regrets any of this.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

So your response to someone asking you if you live here is to smash their head repeatedly into the concrete? You asked me the other day why I choose to exercise my second amendment rights. This is one of the major reasons. You never know what will set off a lunatic. Not saying you're crazy, but how you choose to carry yourself appears to bit a bit on the immature side.

What has happened to civility in our society?

You never answered my question. TM was gone...out of sight. Why did he not go home? Zimmerman was clearly alone when talking to 911. Why did TM confront him? He must have thought along the same lines you do. Earlier you mentined Zimmerman's record but fail to mention TM on the other hand was bragging about his manly beating of an old bus driver on social networks to show the world what an tough guy he is.

How is he clearly alone? Zimmerman is saying that Trayvon is looking at all the houses and that he was looking at Zimmerman, that he was all messed up on drugs.

Those were things never asked. This was GZ calling in a suspicious character. Zimmerman hadn't seen an actual crime, just suspicion.

At one point, Zimmerman followed Trayvon--admittedly.

So, if at any point, he started chasing Trayvon, then Trayvon had a right to defend himself with his fists, just like you want to with your beloved gun.

Does self defense only apply to people with guns?

 

[zrinkill]

Is case against Zimmerman doomed?

Absent something new or previously undisclosed being contained in Corey's file, one of America's best-known lawyers feels the case is doomed. Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz believes that the murder charges will be thrown out. In a recent interview with me, Dershowitz acknowledged the low evidentiary bar necessary at this juncture, but still opined that Corey has not met it.

"It won't suffice," Dershowitz said. "Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won't make it past the judge on a second-degree murder charge. There is simply nothing in there that would justify second-degree murder. The elements of the crime aren't established ...

"There is nothing in there, of course, either about the stains on the back of Zimmerman's shirt, the blood on the back of his head, the bloody nose, all of that. It's not only thin, it's irresponsible. I think that what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech ... for re-election when she gave her presentation, and overcharged, way overcharged. ...

http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/04/24/case-against-zimmerman-doomed

.
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[JBond]

We only have Zimmerman's word that Trayvon actually started the fight and that Zimmerman was just walking back to his truck. The Sole word of the Suspect should never be taken as fact without an investigation. People lie all of the time in cases like this to get off or to get off easier. I don't see how Zimmerman's word should be taken as fact since trayvon is not alive to defend himself it's easy for Zimmerman to twist the situation of what happened to favor him.

A fight happened yes, we don't know who started it.

Yes a family would be angry if they felt like their loved one was walking and making thier own business whent he killer approaches him/her and starts a physically violent/aggresive move towards their loved one and instead of taking it the loved one fights back and gains the upper hand and get killed in a fight that they did not start.


I don't think that it's okay for people with guns going around and starting fights with unarmed people (We dont know who attacked who but I could see this happening) feeling secure in the fact that they have a gun and can shoot and kill and claim Self Defense.

Because even if Zimmerman was defending himself I can see others abusing the law to provoke fights and then trying to get away with murder.

No one has said it is OK for those with guns both legal or illegal to go around and start fights. Who is backing that belief?

I have answered in detail why I believe TM was the aggressor. I know several other folks on the board have their CC. I wish they would chime in with their knowledge and thought process. As an experienced gun owned with extensive training and a CC licence I am telling you there is no way Zimmerman would allow a person he was already concerned about to knock him to the ground and beat him. My conclusion, which could be wrong is it was a surprise attack meaning TM was the aggressor. Zimmerman was clearly alone and had lost sight of TM and was returning to his truck when the altercation took place.

Again it makes no sense that TM would refuse to call police if he felt he was in danger. After the initial lies spread by the media and the race mongers I am not surprised so many have taken such hardened view. Some people seem to be dismissing the real facts as opposed to the ones the media made up.

Again, I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There will be more facts that come to light that may force me to change my mind, but as of right now I do not see any way they will convict Zimmerman. This is not a pro gun view, just a judgement based on the facts.

 

[Rogah]

I disagree. Zimmerman had other things on his mind, which is why I think his last words were something like "have the officers call me".. or something to that effect.

I've given you an actual take from the actual transcript. Your response is "his last words were something like 'have the officers call me' or something to that effect". Sorry, but you're going to have to be a bit more specific than "something like ... something to that effect".

The excerpt I posted makes it clear that Zimmerman was following Martin until he was told "we don't need you to do that" where it certainly seems he was heading back to his truck to meet the officers when they arrived on scene. I've posted actual exceprts from the official transcript to support my assertions. You've posted vague memories that his words were "something like ... or something to that effect."

 

[JBond]

How is he clearly alone? Zimmerman is saying that Trayvon is looking at all the houses and that he was looking at Zimmerman, that he was all messed up on drugs.

Those were things never asked. This was GZ calling in a suspicious character. Zimmerman hadn't seen an actual crime, just suspicion.

At one point, Zimmerman followed Trayvon--admittedly.

So, if at any point, he started chasing Trayvon, then Trayvon had a right to defend himself with his fists, just like you want to with your beloved gun.

Does self defense only apply to people with guns?

I am really trying to be civil. You keep cherry picking parts to fulfill your agenda. Go back and read the 911 call and get back to me. He lost sight of TM meaning he was alone waiting for the cops to show up. Why is that a difficult concept? At that point TM has several choices. The smart one of course is to call the cops. The second one is to go home. The third fits with his pattern of behavior such as beating bus drivers. This time he picked on the wrong guy. I really do not understand your thought process. You have said several time Zimmerman deserved to be beat. I worry about your predisposition to violence. You would automatically attack anyone that asked you a civil question such as "do you live here?". Sigh...

 

[Rogah]

We only have Zimmerman's word that Trayvon actually started the fight and that Zimmerman was just walking back to his truck. The Sole word of the Suspect should never be taken as fact without an investigation. People lie all of the time in cases like this to get off or to get off easier. I don't see how Zimmerman's word should be taken as fact since trayvon is not alive to defend himself it's easy for Zimmerman to twist the situation of what happened to favor him.

You're absolutely right but the problem for the prosecution is that thus far there seems to be absolutely zero evidence contradicting Zimmerman's claim. There absolutely needfs to be an investigation, but you cannot go into court with the assumption that Zimmerman is lying.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I am really trying to be civil. You keep cherry picking parts to fulfill your agenda. Go back and read the 911 call and get back to me. He lost sight of TM meaning he was alone waiting for the cops to show up. Why is that a difficult concept? At that point TM has several choices. The smart one of course is to call the cops. The second one is to go home. The third fits with his pattern of behavior such as beating bus drivers. This time he picked on the wrong guy. I really do not understand your thought process. You have said several time Zimmerman deserved to be beat. I worry about your predisposition to violence. You would automatically attack anyone that asked you a civil question such as "do you live here?". Sigh...

He obviously wasn't trying to ask him if he lived there in some hypothetical way. You can never tell if Zimmerman stops, but it doesn't sound like he stops. When he initially calls the first thing he says is that he looks like he's up to no good, and that he was staring at houses, staring at Zimmerman. Zimmerman says, "something's wrong with him."

"These guys, they always get away,"

And that point in time you hear Zimmerman utter something under his breath (exploitive?) and you can tell he has been chasing him for a while.

Do you want to meet with the officers near the mail box?

"Yeah, that's fine."

Then he changes his tune, likely because he's still in persuit.

"Actually, can you have them call me and I'll tell 'em where I'm at?"

Doesn't sound like he knew where he'd be when the officers got there.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

You're absolutely right but the problem for the prosecution is that thus far there seems to be absolutely zero evidence contradicting Zimmerman's claim. There absolutely needfs to be an investigation, but you cannot go into court with the assumption that Zimmerman is lying.

You don't assume that he is lying or telling the truth when it goes to court. But people are taking everything that Zimmerman says happened as the truth because he said it and that's easier to do without trayvon alive to tell his side in how everything happened.

When one person is dead you just don't assume that the Killer is telling the whole truth without the facts to back it up. We will know that a fight happened and only Zimmerman knows who started it. He did say that he didn't know how old Trayvon was but on the 911 tape he says that he is in his late teens

Again this could be because he forgot about what he said or because he is covering for himself knowing that people are outraged a teen dying and he s saying that he thought that Trayvon was older to take off the heat that he is getting

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher: Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman: George. He ran.
911 dispatcher: Alright, George, what’s your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
911 dispatcher: What’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman: XXX-XXX-XXXX
911 dispatcher: Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
911 dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

where does he say "have them call me"?

i do believe you wish to work for NBC.

seems he knew where to meet them cause he was asked where to meet them and gave directions to his truck.

you make a lot of assumptions on what is said and hell, change what is said to meet your assumptions/expectations.

Wow. For someone who has it all figured out, you really haven't listened to the actual tape have you?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...e-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin

Just because he says ok doesn't mean he stopped.

After he says, "OK." he says, "he ran."

Later he says, "actually, can you have them call me?"

Try looking at/listening to the actual evidence.

 

[Rogah]

You don't assume that he is lying or telling the truth when it goes to court. But people are taking everything that Zimmerman says happened as the truth because he said it and that's easier to do without trayvon alive to tell his side in how everything happened.

You're absolutely right, but it is clear that some in here are assuming he is lying.

For some reason, quite a large segment of people discussing this case are proceeding with the assumption Zimmerman is guilty and demanding proof of his innocence. That just isn't the way it works in this country.

When one person is dead you just don't assume that the Killer is telling the whole truth without the facts to back it up. We will know that a fight happened and only Zimmerman knows who started it. He did say that he didn't know how old Trayvon was but on the 911 tape he says that he is in his late teens

Again this could be because he forgot about what he said or because he is covering for himself knowing that people are outraged a teen dying and he s saying that he thought that Trayvon was older to take off the heat that he is getting

There is certainly an inconsistency in Zimmerman's statements, but in the grad scheme of things that is a pretty small inconsistency.

 

[iceberg]

Wow. For someone who has it all figured out, you really haven't listened to the actual tape have you?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...e-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin

Just because he says ok doesn't mean he stopped.

After he says, "OK." he says, "he ran."

Later he says, "actually, can you have them call me?"

Try looking at/listening to the actual evidence.

i did go back and read the entire transcript and yes, he did say that.

i just don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[Rogah]

Wow. For someone who has it all figured out, you really haven't listened to the actual tape have you?

Actually yes I have listened to the whole tape. And it sure doesn't seem to me that Zimmerman was running after and chasing Martin after he tells the 911 dispatcher "he ran."

Try looking at/listening to the actual evidence.

This from the guy who inaccurately quotes the 911 call using ridiculously vague statements such as "his last words were something like "have the officers call me".. or something to that effect."

You quote the 911 call with "something like something to that effect" while I gave an actual, unedited excerpt from the official transcript. So, with all due respect, you look pretty silly lecturing me about "looking at/listening to the actual evidence."

 

[iceberg]

Actually yes I have listened to the whole tape. And it sure doesn't seem to me that Zimmerman was running after and chasing Martin after he tells the 911 dispatcher "he ran."
This from the guy who inaccurately quotes the 911 call using ridiculously vague statements such as "his last words were something like "have the officers call me".. or something to that effect."

You quote the 911 call with "something like something to that effect" while I gave an actual, unedited excerpt from the official transcript. So, with all due respect, you look pretty silly lecturing me about "looking at/listening to the actual evidence."

he was flogging me on this one but hey, doesn't change how he looks.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

No one has said it is OK for those with guns both legal or illegal to go around and start fights. Who is backing that belief?

I have answered in detail why I believe TM was the aggressor. I know several other folks on the board have their CC. I wish they would chime in with their knowledge and thought process. As an experienced gun owned with extensive training and a CC licence I am telling you there is no way Zimmerman would allow a person he was already concerned about to knock him to the ground and beat him. My conclusion, which could be wrong is it was a surprise attack meaning TM was the aggressor. Zimmerman was clearly alone and had lost sight of TM and was returning to his truck when the altercation took place.

Again it makes no sense that TM would refuse to call police if he felt he was in danger. After the initial lies spread by the media and the race mongers I am not surprised so many have taken such hardened view. Some people seem to be dismissing the real facts as opposed to the ones the media made up.

Again, I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There will be more facts that come to light that may force me to change my mind, but as of right now I do not see any way they will convict Zimmerman. This is not a pro gun view, just a judgement based on the facts.

I heard that Trayvon's body was not near the truck or road but we will have to wait for the official evidence to go come. I don't believe that someone who go from walking home to getting in the mood to kill, that's an extreme turn in emotion and Zimmerman's Dad said that Trayvon said that "You're going to die tonight" to Zimmerman.

So would would someone go from walking home to wanting to kill? Unless they have emotional problems I don't see that as a normal action.

I didn't say that you said it was Okay, but I can see people abusing Stand Your Ground and being more secure in starting fights because they have the gun to back them up and if someone wanted someone else dead they could provoke that person into a fight and kill them knowing that there would be no witnesses around to contradict their story of Self Defense.

So I hope that this Zimmerman case doesn't lead to people abusing the law

 

[iceberg]

I heard that Trayvon's body was not near the truck or road but we will have to wait for the official evidence to go come. I don't believe that someone who go from walking home to getting in the mood to kill, that's an extreme turn in emotion and Zimmerman's Dad said that Trayvon said that "You're going to die tonight" to Zimmerman.

So would would someone go from walking home to wanting to kill? Unless they have emotional problems I don't see that as a normal action.

I didn't say that you said it was Okay, but I can see people abusing Stand Your Ground and being more secure in starting fights because they have the gun to back them up and if someone wanted someone else dead they could provoke that person into a fight and kill them knowing that there would be no witnesses around to contradict their story of Self Defense.

So I hope that this Zimmerman case doesn't lead to people abusing the law

you mean by blacks now beating up whites "in protest" of it all?

i also hope it doesn't lead to people not being able to defend themselves cause someone will play the race card and wa-la.

instant guilt.

 

[Hoofbite]

You're doing some dishonest selective editing and leaving out some pretty relevant parts. You'd probably be a great candidate to work for NBC.

Meanwhile, the actual transcript says the following:

911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman: OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher: Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman: George. He ran.
911 dispatcher: Alright, George, what’s your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
911 dispatcher: What’s the phone number you’re calling from?
Zimmerman: XXX-XXX-XXXX
911 dispatcher: Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
911 dispatcher: Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]

Based on the above transcript, it sure seems to me that once the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman to stop following Martin, that he stopped, wouldn't you agree?

The messy part comes up when you look at the fact that it took 14 or so seconds after leaving his car before the dispatcher told him to stop and yet close to 4 minutes elapsed before the phone call with screams in the background is made.

You're doing some dishonest selective editing

Funny you should mention it considering a few seconds after your transcript ends Zimmermans asks for the police to call him so he can "tell them where he is at".

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Actually yes I have listened to the whole tape. And it sure doesn't seem to me that Zimmerman was running after and chasing Martin after he tells the 911 dispatcher "he ran."
This from the guy who inaccurately quotes the 911 call using ridiculously vague statements such as "his last words were something like "have the officers call me".. or something to that effect."

You quote the 911 call with "something like something to that effect" while I gave an actual, unedited excerpt from the official transcript. So, with all due respect, you look pretty silly lecturing me about "looking at/listening to the actual evidence."

I listened to the quotes. i'm sorry I didn't copy and paste them for you.