Some Things Just Don't Register With Me. This is one of them

[Tawney88]

Just common sense.

How is that common sense? What would be the draw?

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

It has been said in this thread that people are born pedophiles. That is the most ridiculous thing I may have ever read.
How easy, how convenient, ... "he was just born that way!"

I am sick of hearing that when talking about homosexuals, but I have no proof on that, .. only my opinion, my gut feeling, and common sense. So I will leave that for another discussion. I will give you that one, for now.

But to say that about a pedophile is absurd.

"We could just tell when he was a young boy that he would one day grow up and molest children." .. B U L L !!

Pedophiles are created by twisted things that they have experienced and filled their heads with as they grew up.

Maybe they were sexually molested, .. probably were. Probably more than once. This may be the biggest reason they desire to harm children.
They are molded and shaped by magazines that they see, books that they read, movies that they watch, relationships that were forced on them and went bad.
They can be influenced by excessive use of alcohol and drugs.
And in almost every case, sexual abuse and sexual violence can be traced back to a severe addiction to pornography. That is fact.

They continue to put these evil things into their head. They fill their minds with evil sexual fantasies. They think of them, dwell on them, and fascinate about them, .. until the opportunity presents itself, and they finally act on them.

People become pedophiles, they aren't born that way.

Excellent Post!

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

you honestly believe someone chooses to be gay?

Sure they choose it. Why would a sane person think any differently?

 

[Tawney88]

Sure they choose it. Why would a sane person think any differently?

Why would a person choose that?

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Bingo Tawney

No one has given an answer why someone would voluntarily choose to be gay when they can be discriminated on, not allowed to marry a person of their choice, in some countries killed etc

Take Russia for example, why would anyone choose to be gay there, or Nigeria where you can be killed just for being gay. Makes no sense.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

For those of you who think you are not born gay, have you ever met or discussed the issue with a gay person?

 

[Rockport]

Why would a person choose that?

Because of their childhood. Not taught social skills, over protected, child abuse, etc. Lots of reasons.

 

[jnday]

This is true. There is a very large segment of people out there who crave attention. For those who are gay or lesbian, it often manifests itself in outlandish appearance or behavior.

This is a great point. For many people, it is a craving for attention.

 

[Tawney88]

Because of their childhood. Not taught social skills, over protected, child abuse, etc. Lots of reasons.

Lol ridiculous

 

[Tawney88]

Wow, this thread went from macho posturing, to willful ignorance in a hurry.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Why would a person choose that?

Why would a person choose to rape?

Why would a person choose to Murder?

Why would a person choose to steal?

Why would a person lie?

Why would a person Vandalize?

Why would a person become an arsonist?

Why would as guy have sex with a woman?

Why would a guy jerk off looking at porn?

Why would somebody have another person of the opposite sex, or even same sex, have that person urinate or defecate on them?

Why? Because a person CHOOSES to act in one way or another, thats why.

Why are some humans involved in homosexual sex but we have no evidence that it happens in the animal kingdom? Because animals act on instinct. An animal feels an urge and it reacts. Animals are not guided by a sense of right and wrong, morals, ethics, etc. Animals simply react on instinct. Why does a male dog lick his own doodads? Why do dogs go around sniffing and licking butts? And why is it that animals dont have same sex activity? Because it goes against nature. It goes against the created order.

Humans are different than animals. And while humans have certain tendencies and desires, a human has the ability to exercise self control and be guided by a sense of right and wrong, morals, ethics, etc. And just like the animals, humans have a sex drive, a desire to pro create. Its natural. Its normal. The desire to pro create is as normal as the desire to eat - but its a desire that while pleasurable is also something that naturally is intended to be heterosexual.

Its all about how a person CHOOSES to act out on his/her sexual desires. Will that person CHOOSE to act out in a responsible and moral way? Or will that person choose to act out in some perverted, twisted and unnatural way? The sex drive is strong. Its strong because its a natural desire that we all have to reproduce and enjoy the PROCESS of it. Its an expression of love between a man and a woman. Its normal for people to get married, have kids, etc.

Any desire that we humans have can be fulfilled or not fulfilled. I might have the desire to slap the *itch that ran into my shopping cart and then told me off - but I exercise self control and CHOOSE not to. I might have the desire to eat nothing but fried foods and meat lovers pizzas, but I CHOOSE to eat a healthier diet. Why do I make those CHOICES? Because, its the right thing to do, AND there are consequences based on how I CHOOSE.

How does a person exercise self control and make the right choices? A person has to be guided by a set of values, and a recognition of not only what is right and wrong but a recognition of the potential consequences for CHOICES. And if a person fuels the passion to experience and fulfill natural desires he/she is more likely to act in a way to fulfill them.

How is that passion fueled?

Its fueled in guys mostly by what they see. You see a hot girl dressed in a way that reveals her goods and its natural to want to get it on. It looks good and fulfilling. My natural desire is to hit it. If I constantly get turned down by the hotties I still have that desire to hit something. Okay, I cant get any 10's so I settle for a 5 or 6. Maybe I cant get a 5 or a 6 so I settle for a 2 or 3, or maybe even a 1. Hey, at least Im getting sum.

If Im constantly feeding the passion/desire to hit something, BUT, dont have much success, I still have the desire to engage in the PROCESS. Its natural. If I cant fulfill my natural desires in a natural way, then I may CHOOSE to fulfill them in some unnatural way. Combine that with the fact that others who fulfill natural desires in an unnatural way may be helping me to step across that line to fulfill desires. When I do I find a certain fulfillment I may want to continue acting out in a way that fulfills it. My itch cant be scratched naturally, but at least it can be unnaturally. A certain sense of pleasure and fulfillment is attained, even if it falls short of fulfilling it in a natural way. At the same time, while fulfilling in some sense the shame and guilt is present. If I can convince myself that the shame and guilt is only there because others want me to feel it, then I can over time deaden the senses of my conscience, searing it so to speak so that I am more comfortable being fulfilled in an unnatural way.

Now, when there are enough people with a seared conscience reinforcing what I do with my seared conscience and we all say the guilt and shame we feel is not because of our natural sense of right and wrong but because others look down on me and THEY are the reason/source of my misery/discomfort in this area I justify and even get to the point where the people not in agreement with the immoral activity are actually the ones in the wrong. I then say they are hateful or bigoted. Or backwards and judgmental. They have now become the ones doing wrong.

Being gay is not natural. Its not something somebody is born with. Its a CHOICE that an individual makes in an attempt to fulfill a natural desire. The "born like that" excuse is simply that, an excuse to attempt to justify the shame and guilt that comes from CHOOSING to act in an unnatural way to fulfill that desire.

The very fact that you, or anyone else would ask how they could be gay if they werent born like that is proof that its viewed in a negative light. You are basically condemning the behavior, but making an excuse for it. The fact that people often say its not for me, but to each his own so I'll not do it but to each his own indicates that a person naturally recognizes that being gay is not natural. So as over time people are ridiculed and labeled as haters for acknowledging how perverted and unnatural it is everybody's senses get deadened to a certain degree and it is allowed to be more out in the open, EVEN THO ITS NOT FOR ME. There is a recognition that it is unnatural, but hey, who are we to judge? I mean after all, its not for me, but Im not gonna judge so then I can expect others not to judge me,and then we can all engage in some kind of immoral behavior and all be free from any guilt and shame that may come as a result. Yea, that gay stuff isnt for me - because I know its unnatural and immoral - but hey I dont want anyone telling me whats right or wrong in my life so lets all just do our own thing and feel justified in it no matter what we do or dont do. And then we can even ease our consciences a little more, sear the sensitivity a little more if we can make an excuse that explains how somebody could be gay so we give them a pass, and in turn can give ourselves a pass for the wrong we want to do. And then we can even go further and pat ourselves on the back by convincing ourselves that we are actually doing some good by making excuses for them and rising above the hate. So now in my mind Im off the hook for my own immoral acts (whatever they may be) and even feeling good about it because Im ignoring (not judging) someone else's immoral acts and even make excuses for them. Now we all can attempt to feel better about things. And even tho a seared conscience is a deadened conscience, it still works. And because its still working I can relieve that by blaming others who dont approve of the immorality - so the source of my conscience bothering me is now the fault of others. And then we go further and now not only blame others for our consciences, but we attack them and call them all kind of names. So now the people trying to acknowledge what is moral and distinguish between what is immoral are the problem. And the unnatural immoral actor is now praised for having courage and character when they openly acknowledge what they are.

And here we are with saying they are born that way. Its a nice try, but it doesnt work. It doesnt work because a person's conscience no matter how seared will still be there, working and working. And the law of consequences is ever present. Why is domestic violence at such a high rate for gay and lesbian couples? Why is it only about 5% for hereosexual couples but around 39% for gay and 56% for lesbian couples? Just one example of consequences, but a real one.

No, nobody is born "that way." Its a CHOICE. And its a CHOICE that not only has consequences for the individual, but for an entire society as well.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Thank you for taking the time to express and explain all of that, ... and very well I might add.

Well done.

 

[BlindFaith]

So what if the question is not one of being born that way? Lets say we all agreed that this was the case (we won't but for the sake of discussion), what is the answer. I've still seen no evidence that these people can be rehabilitated. What is the answer for the good of the many and not the good of the few or the one?

I did a quick google search and found the recidivism rates along with other stats. Just read man. But I'm not saying that these people are "normal". I've said they are broken. The same goes for sociopaths, sex addicts, autism and a host of mental disorders. They don't "choose" to be the way they are. Do some fall into this state due to nurture? Sure. Having horrible things done to you as a child has an impact on how your brain develops. But again, that means something is broken.

And of course there are those that choose to do bad things that aren't broken per se. Robbery, murder, lying, corruption. Many of these types of acts are done out of need, creed or in some cases, the need to survive - at least a way to survive from their view point.

I've never said we should just let these people do as they please. I've never said that they could be possibly fixed completely. Just that they can be conditioned to not act on their impulses. An alcoholic is always an alcoholic. They learn how to cope with life without having to drink. A pedophile will always be a pedophile. But they can learn to cope with their issues without acting on them. There are probably many potential pedophiles out there that realize they have a problem that never act on their urges. Do you want to find them and incarcerate them because they "may" act on those urges? Scientists are very close to identifying the brain patterns of various mental disorders. Maybe everyone should have a brain scan at a certain age and we lock up those that aren't normal? Kind of a scary thought.

So my stance is not that we simply tolerate bad behavior. But rather realize that there is a soul in each and every one of us. A soul that could be trapped in a body that is broken.

 

[BlindFaith]

This is bull. Just an excuse for weak minded folks to use on other weak minded folks.

Weak minded is being spoon fed information without actually looking for the truth.

Do you choose to be straight, assuming that you are?

 

[BlindFaith]

Why would a person choose to rape?

Why would a person choose to Murder?

Why would a person choose to steal?

Why would a person lie?

Why would a person Vandalize?

Why would a person become an arsonist?

Why would as guy have sex with a woman?

Why would a guy jerk off looking at porn?

Why would somebody have another person of the opposite sex, or even same sex, have that person urinate or defecate on them?

Why? Because a person CHOOSES to act in one way or another, thats why.

Why are some humans involved in homosexual sex but we have no evidence that it happens in the animal kingdom? Because animals act on instinct. An animal feels an urge and it reacts. Animals are not guided by a sense of right and wrong, morals, ethics, etc. Animals simply react on instinct. Why does a male dog lick his own doodads? Why do dogs go around sniffing and licking butts? And why is it that animals dont have same sex activity? Because it goes against nature. It goes against the created order.

Humans are different than animals. And while humans have certain tendencies and desires, a human has the ability to exercise self control and be guided by a sense of right and wrong, morals, ethics, etc. And just like the animals, humans have a sex drive, a desire to pro create. Its natural. Its normal. The desire to pro create is as normal as the desire to eat - but its a desire that while pleasurable is also something that naturally is intended to be heterosexual.

Its all about how a person CHOOSES to act out on his/her sexual desires. Will that person CHOOSE to act out in a responsible and moral way? Or will that person choose to act out in some perverted, twisted and unnatural way? The sex drive is strong. Its strong because its a natural desire that we all have to reproduce and enjoy the PROCESS of it. Its an expression of love between a man and a woman. Its normal for people to get married, have kids, etc.

Any desire that we humans have can be fulfilled or not fulfilled. I might have the desire to slap the *itch that ran into my shopping cart and then told me off - but I exercise self control and CHOOSE not to. I might have the desire to eat nothing but fried foods and meat lovers pizzas, but I CHOOSE to eat a healthier diet. Why do I make those CHOICES? Because, its the right thing to do, AND there are consequences based on how I CHOOSE.

How does a person exercise self control and make the right choices? A person has to be guided by a set of values, and a recognition of not only what is right and wrong but a recognition of the potential consequences for CHOICES. And if a person fuels the passion to experience and fulfill natural desires he/she is more likely to act in a way to fulfill them.

How is that passion fueled?

Its fueled in guys mostly by what they see. You see a hot girl dressed in a way that reveals her goods and its natural to want to get it on. It looks good and fulfilling. My natural desire is to hit it. If I constantly get turned down by the hotties I still have that desire to hit something. Okay, I cant get any 10's so I settle for a 5 or 6. Maybe I cant get a 5 or a 6 so I settle for a 2 or 3, or maybe even a 1. Hey, at least Im getting sum.

If Im constantly feeding the passion/desire to hit something, BUT, dont have much success, I still have the desire to engage in the PROCESS. Its natural. If I cant fulfill my natural desires in a natural way, then I may CHOOSE to fulfill them in some unnatural way. Combine that with the fact that others who fulfill natural desires in an unnatural way may be helping me to step across that line to fulfill desires. When I do I find a certain fulfillment I may want to continue acting out in a way that fulfills it. My itch cant be scratched naturally, but at least it can be unnaturally. A certain sense of pleasure and fulfillment is attained, even if it falls short of fulfilling it in a natural way. At the same time, while fulfilling in some sense the shame and guilt is present. If I can convince myself that the shame and guilt is only there because others want me to feel it, then I can over time deaden the senses of my conscience, searing it so to speak so that I am more comfortable being fulfilled in an unnatural way.

Now, when there are enough people with a seared conscience reinforcing what I do with my seared conscience and we all say the guilt and shame we feel is not because of our natural sense of right and wrong but because others look down on me and THEY are the reason/source of my misery/discomfort in this area I justify and even get to the point where the people not in agreement with the immoral activity are actually the ones in the wrong. I then say they are hateful or bigoted. Or backwards and judgmental. They have now become the ones doing wrong.

Being gay is not natural. Its not something somebody is born with. Its a CHOICE that an individual makes in an attempt to fulfill a natural desire. The "born like that" excuse is simply that, an excuse to attempt to justify the shame and guilt that comes from CHOOSING to act in an unnatural way to fulfill that desire.

The very fact that you, or anyone else would ask how they could be gay if they werent born like that is proof that its viewed in a negative light. You are basically condemning the behavior, but making an excuse for it. The fact that people often say its not for me, but to each his own so I'll not do it but to each his own indicates that a person naturally recognizes that being gay is not natural. So as over time people are ridiculed and labeled as haters for acknowledging how perverted and unnatural it is everybody's senses get deadened to a certain degree and it is allowed to be more out in the open, EVEN THO ITS NOT FOR ME. There is a recognition that it is unnatural, but hey, who are we to judge? I mean after all, its not for me, but Im not gonna judge so then I can expect others not to judge me,and then we can all engage in some kind of immoral behavior and all be free from any guilt and shame that may come as a result. Yea, that gay stuff isnt for me - because I know its unnatural and immoral - but hey I dont want anyone telling me whats right or wrong in my life so lets all just do our own thing and feel justified in it no matter what we do or dont do. And then we can even ease our consciences a little more, sear the sensitivity a little more if we can make an excuse that explains how somebody could be gay so we give them a pass, and in turn can give ourselves a pass for the wrong we want to do. And then we can even go further and pat ourselves on the back by convincing ourselves that we are actually doing some good by making excuses for them and rising above the hate. So now in my mind Im off the hook for my own immoral acts (whatever they may be) and even feeling good about it because Im ignoring (not judging) someone else's immoral acts and even make excuses for them. Now we all can attempt to feel better about things. And even tho a seared conscience is a deadened conscience, it still works. And because its still working I can relieve that by blaming others who dont approve of the immorality - so the source of my conscience bothering me is now the fault of others. And then we go further and now not only blame others for our consciences, but we attack them and call them all kind of names. So now the people trying to acknowledge what is moral and distinguish between what is immoral are the problem. And the unnatural immoral actor is now praised for having courage and character when they openly acknowledge what they are.

And here we are with saying they are born that way. Its a nice try, but it doesnt work. It doesnt work because a person's conscience no matter how seared will still be there, working and working. And the law of consequences is ever present. Why is domestic violence at such a high rate for gay and lesbian couples? Why is it only about 5% for hereosexual couples but around 39% for gay and 56% for lesbian couples? Just one example of consequences, but a real one.

No, nobody is born "that way." Its a CHOICE. And its a CHOICE that not only has consequences for the individual, but for an entire society as well.

Dude, really. Try reading. The internet is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior
http://listverse.com/2013/04/20/10-animals-that-practice-homosexuality/

It took me all of 3 seconds to find the above.

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending something isn't real is fine. Live in your bubble and watch the rest of the world progress.

 

[BlindFaith]

Why would a person choose to rape?

Why would a person choose to Murder?

Why would a person choose to steal?

Why would a person lie?

Why would a person Vandalize?

Why would a person become an arsonist?

Why would as guy have sex with a woman?

Why would a guy jerk off looking at porn?

Why would somebody have another person of the opposite sex, or even same sex, have that person urinate or defecate on them?

Why? Because a person CHOOSES to act in one way or another, thats why.

Why are some humans involved in homosexual sex but we have no evidence that it happens in the animal kingdom? Because animals act on instinct. An animal feels an urge and it reacts. Animals are not guided by a sense of right and wrong, morals, ethics, etc. Animals simply react on instinct. Why does a male dog lick his own doodads? Why do dogs go around sniffing and licking butts? And why is it that animals dont have same sex activity? Because it goes against nature. It goes against the created order.

Humans are different than animals. And while humans have certain tendencies and desires, a human has the ability to exercise self control and be guided by a sense of right and wrong, morals, ethics, etc. And just like the animals, humans have a sex drive, a desire to pro create. Its natural. Its normal. The desire to pro create is as normal as the desire to eat - but its a desire that while pleasurable is also something that naturally is intended to be heterosexual.

Its all about how a person CHOOSES to act out on his/her sexual desires. Will that person CHOOSE to act out in a responsible and moral way? Or will that person choose to act out in some perverted, twisted and unnatural way? The sex drive is strong. Its strong because its a natural desire that we all have to reproduce and enjoy the PROCESS of it. Its an expression of love between a man and a woman. Its normal for people to get married, have kids, etc.

Any desire that we humans have can be fulfilled or not fulfilled. I might have the desire to slap the *itch that ran into my shopping cart and then told me off - but I exercise self control and CHOOSE not to. I might have the desire to eat nothing but fried foods and meat lovers pizzas, but I CHOOSE to eat a healthier diet. Why do I make those CHOICES? Because, its the right thing to do, AND there are consequences based on how I CHOOSE.

How does a person exercise self control and make the right choices? A person has to be guided by a set of values, and a recognition of not only what is right and wrong but a recognition of the potential consequences for CHOICES. And if a person fuels the passion to experience and fulfill natural desires he/she is more likely to act in a way to fulfill them.

How is that passion fueled?

Its fueled in guys mostly by what they see. You see a hot girl dressed in a way that reveals her goods and its natural to want to get it on. It looks good and fulfilling. My natural desire is to hit it. If I constantly get turned down by the hotties I still have that desire to hit something. Okay, I cant get any 10's so I settle for a 5 or 6. Maybe I cant get a 5 or a 6 so I settle for a 2 or 3, or maybe even a 1. Hey, at least Im getting sum.

If Im constantly feeding the passion/desire to hit something, BUT, dont have much success, I still have the desire to engage in the PROCESS. Its natural. If I cant fulfill my natural desires in a natural way, then I may CHOOSE to fulfill them in some unnatural way. Combine that with the fact that others who fulfill natural desires in an unnatural way may be helping me to step across that line to fulfill desires. When I do I find a certain fulfillment I may want to continue acting out in a way that fulfills it. My itch cant be scratched naturally, but at least it can be unnaturally. A certain sense of pleasure and fulfillment is attained, even if it falls short of fulfilling it in a natural way. At the same time, while fulfilling in some sense the shame and guilt is present. If I can convince myself that the shame and guilt is only there because others want me to feel it, then I can over time deaden the senses of my conscience, searing it so to speak so that I am more comfortable being fulfilled in an unnatural way.

Now, when there are enough people with a seared conscience reinforcing what I do with my seared conscience and we all say the guilt and shame we feel is not because of our natural sense of right and wrong but because others look down on me and THEY are the reason/source of my misery/discomfort in this area I justify and even get to the point where the people not in agreement with the immoral activity are actually the ones in the wrong. I then say they are hateful or bigoted. Or backwards and judgmental. They have now become the ones doing wrong.

Being gay is not natural. Its not something somebody is born with. Its a CHOICE that an individual makes in an attempt to fulfill a natural desire. The "born like that" excuse is simply that, an excuse to attempt to justify the shame and guilt that comes from CHOOSING to act in an unnatural way to fulfill that desire.

The very fact that you, or anyone else would ask how they could be gay if they werent born like that is proof that its viewed in a negative light. You are basically condemning the behavior, but making an excuse for it. The fact that people often say its not for me, but to each his own so I'll not do it but to each his own indicates that a person naturally recognizes that being gay is not natural. So as over time people are ridiculed and labeled as haters for acknowledging how perverted and unnatural it is everybody's senses get deadened to a certain degree and it is allowed to be more out in the open, EVEN THO ITS NOT FOR ME. There is a recognition that it is unnatural, but hey, who are we to judge? I mean after all, its not for me, but Im not gonna judge so then I can expect others not to judge me,and then we can all engage in some kind of immoral behavior and all be free from any guilt and shame that may come as a result. Yea, that gay stuff isnt for me - because I know its unnatural and immoral - but hey I dont want anyone telling me whats right or wrong in my life so lets all just do our own thing and feel justified in it no matter what we do or dont do. And then we can even ease our consciences a little more, sear the sensitivity a little more if we can make an excuse that explains how somebody could be gay so we give them a pass, and in turn can give ourselves a pass for the wrong we want to do. And then we can even go further and pat ourselves on the back by convincing ourselves that we are actually doing some good by making excuses for them and rising above the hate. So now in my mind Im off the hook for my own immoral acts (whatever they may be) and even feeling good about it because Im ignoring (not judging) someone else's immoral acts and even make excuses for them. Now we all can attempt to feel better about things. And even tho a seared conscience is a deadened conscience, it still works. And because its still working I can relieve that by blaming others who dont approve of the immorality - so the source of my conscience bothering me is now the fault of others. And then we go further and now not only blame others for our consciences, but we attack them and call them all kind of names. So now the people trying to acknowledge what is moral and distinguish between what is immoral are the problem. And the unnatural immoral actor is now praised for having courage and character when they openly acknowledge what they are.

And here we are with saying they are born that way. Its a nice try, but it doesnt work. It doesnt work because a person's conscience no matter how seared will still be there, working and working. And the law of consequences is ever present. Why is domestic violence at such a high rate for gay and lesbian couples? Why is it only about 5% for hereosexual couples but around 39% for gay and 56% for lesbian couples? Just one example of consequences, but a real one.

No, nobody is born "that way." Its a CHOICE. And its a CHOICE that not only has consequences for the individual, but for an entire society as well.

Here's another one saying that homosexually is genetic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...fluenced-by-genes-us-study-finds-9127683.html

But please carry on with your scientific reasoning behind why you like to hit what you hit.

 

[BlindFaith]

Thank you for taking the time to express and explain all of that, ... and very well I might add.

Well done.

People were trying to explain how the earth was flat, and not too long ago mind you. Please don't encourage a factually wrong and bigoted agenda.

Its one thing to hate a pedophile. Hating people that have done nothing wrong at all is so far across the line that even society is changing its acceptance and understanding of gay people. Well most of society anyway.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think this thread has went long enough.