Spears and Canty

cowboyed · Oct 11, 2006

Isn't amazing how that 3-4 defense completely befuddled McNabb???

dbair1967 · Oct 11, 2006

summerisfunner;1084316 said:
now this is a post, not the mandatory *****ing

these guys definitely need to step up, BP has only been telling us that

they'll step it up when put into a more aggressive scheme, especially Spears

David

dbair1967 · Oct 11, 2006

bigbadroy;1084668 said:
spears hasn't impressed me since he was drafted

the guys coaching them are the problem, not the player or players

David

CrazyCowboy · Oct 11, 2006

I have been very disappointed in the production of both of these guys......what gives?

CosmicCowboy · Oct 11, 2006

CrazyCowboy;1084756 said:
I have been very disappointed in the production of both of these guys......what gives?

correct ta mundo...seems like Ratliff...is the only one to show life.

dfense · Oct 11, 2006

BlueStar22;1084312 said:
We need to hear from you soon. Now we all know what 3-4 ends roles are in the defense, but we need to see something soon. Did they play Sunday?

Yes they did. And they did a pretty good job shutting the run down. Don't you think so?

ravidubey · Oct 11, 2006

AdamJT13;1084669 said:
Which team are you a fan of?

We haven't played "five whole games." We've played four games.

And go see how many 3-4 defensive ends finished last season with four sacks, four tackles for loss and eight passes defended. Check perennial All-Pro Richard Seymour, for instance. Or Pro Bowl end Aaron Smith.

People think players should get one or two sacks per game, along with a few tackles for loss and passes knocked down every quarter, but that just doesn't happen. The NFL isn't like video games.

I agree for the most part that stats don't tell the story with 3-4 DEs.

These guys can only be judged by careful study of the line play. To prove their worth as "1st round talent" (though Canty was a 4th round pick), they must be difficult to run against and must consistently penetrate, not merely hold their own, in pass defense. Otherwise what separates them from Kenyon Coleman?

Thus far they have proven they are better than most OLs vs both run and pass, but struggle vs the pass against better OLs in the league. That's to be expected, but I'd hoped for more from the two of them.

Jacksonville shortened up their pass patterns and Philadelphia's offense consisted mainly of three big plays. The turning point vs. Philly was the whiff on McNabb at the 13 yard line. That play in all likelihood lost the game.

To become an elite defense we must take advantage of opportunities, not be surprised by them.

Yakuza Rich · Oct 11, 2006

A good year for a 3-4 DE may be getting 3 sacks. It's essentially a run stop first position and for the most part, you're just looking for pressure from the DE but not expecting sacks in the 3-4. Canty's problem is that while he's very stout against the run, his pass rush skills need work as he simply doesn't get any pressure on passes. That being said, he's done better in that area in the last two games. And I honestly believe he's far better suited in the 3-4 than the 4-3.

Spears is like the opposite of Canty. Whereas Canty has some issues with the pass rush, Spears has some issues with the run. The Titans helped expose that, but he played well against the run on Sunday vs. Philly. He's a pretty decent pass rusher for a 3-4 DE. Ratliff is along the lines of Spears and I'm a bit surprised he isn't starting. Perhaps Parcells feels that if he starts, he'll lose his luster when they use him for the nickel.

YAKUZA

Stautner · Oct 11, 2006

BlueStar22;1084312 said:
We need to hear from you soon. Now we all know what 3-4 ends roles are in the defense, but we need to see something soon. Did they play Sunday?

The 3-4 DE roles are to occupy O-linemen to free up LB's to make plays - they aren't supposed to be the high profile guys or the primary pass rushers.

An occassion sack or two would be a nice bonus, but considering how well we plugged up the running lanes I suspect Spears and Canty did fine.

Stautner · Oct 11, 2006

dallasfan31;1084570 said:
i upset with canty he has not shown me nothing this season i am real high on him.

he has not shown me nothing .......?

You do realize that your words actually mean that he has shown you something ........don't you?

Actually, I doubt you do.

joseephuss · Oct 11, 2006

Stautner;1085100 said:
The 3-4 DE roles are to occupy O-linemen to free up LB's to make plays - they aren't supposed to be the high profile guys or the primary pass rushers.

An occassion sack or two would be a nice bonus, but considering how well we plugged up the running lanes I suspect Spears and Canty did fine.

But you can judge them as pass rushers when they play the nickel. I don't need huge sack numbers, but I would like to see them control the middle so the QB has really nowhere to step up. That isn't just Spears or Canty, but anyone they insert in the interior of the 4 man line nickel package.

Stautner · Oct 11, 2006

joseephuss;1085164 said:
But you can judge them as pass rushers when they play the nickel. I don't need huge sack numbers, but I would like to see them control the middle so the QB has really nowhere to step up. That isn't just Spears or Canty, but anyone they insert in the interior of the 4 man line nickel package.

Hatcher and Ratliff often play in the nickle.

I will grant you, however, that we didn't seem to get much of a push up the middle when rushing the QB, and I can accept your thoughts about that not being a strong suit of our D-line so far. They do seem to contain the QB - there aren't any running lanes opening up - but they don't seem to collapse the pocket either.

jr40usa · Oct 12, 2006

seem to be starting the season off slow. I know it is early, but I would like to see them more active.

50cent · Oct 12, 2006

They are in the running game, but they seem to have the pass rushing skills of Kerry Collins.

dbair1967 · Oct 12, 2006

couldnt be the fact they play such a non-aggressive style of defense?

nahhh...couldnt be

David

Bob Sacamano · Oct 12, 2006

dbair1967;1087734 said:
couldnt be the fact they play such a non-aggressive style of defense?

nahhh...couldnt be

David

:jerk: Xs infinity

lspain1 · Oct 12, 2006

ravidubey;1085078 said:
I agree for the most part that stats don't tell the story with 3-4 DEs.

These guys can only be judged by careful study of the line play. To prove their worth as "1st round talent" (though Canty was a 4th round pick), they must be difficult to run against and must consistently penetrate, not merely hold their own, in pass defense. Otherwise what separates them from Kenyon Coleman?

Thus far they have proven they are better than most OLs vs both run and pass, but struggle vs the pass against better OLs in the league. That's to be expected, but I'd hoped for more from the two of them.

Jacksonville shortened up their pass patterns and Philadelphia's offense consisted mainly of three big plays. The turning point vs. Philly was the whiff on McNabb at the 13 yard line. That play in all likelihood lost the game.

To become an elite defense we must take advantage of opportunities, not be surprised by them.

Excellent post. I also think the whiff on McNabb lost us the ball game. It was a game changer.

Bob Sacamano · Oct 12, 2006

Yakuza Rich;1085082 said:
A good year for a 3-4 DE may be getting 3 sacks. It's essentially a run stop first position and for the most part, you're just looking for pressure from the DE but not expecting sacks in the 3-4. Canty's problem is that while he's very stout against the run, his pass rush skills need work as he simply doesn't get any pressure on passes. That being said, he's done better in that area in the last two games. And I honestly believe he's far better suited in the 3-4 than the 4-3.

Spears is like the opposite of Canty. Whereas Canty has some issues with the pass rush, Spears has some issues with the run. The Titans helped expose that, but he played well against the run on Sunday vs. Philly. He's a pretty decent pass rusher for a 3-4 DE. Ratliff is along the lines of Spears and I'm a bit surprised he isn't starting. Perhaps Parcells feels that if he starts, he'll lose his luster when they use him for the nickel.

YAKUZA

although the DE's responsibilities and production are different in a 3-4, than a 4-3 DE's, when Parcells' is saying that Canty, and the whole front 7 is uninspiring and/or needs to step up, you know they aren't playing as well as they should

BlueStar22 · Oct 12, 2006

dfense;1084993 said:
Yes they did. And they did a pretty good job shutting the run down. Don't you think so?

u mean the 2 or 3 times Philly ran the ball?:laugh2:

dbair1967 · Oct 13, 2006

summerisfunner;1087769 said:
although the DE's responsibilities and production are different in a 3-4, than a 4-3 DE's, when Parcells' is saying that Canty, and the whole front 7 is uninspiring and/or needs to step up, you know they aren't playing as well as they should

I still think it has alot more to do with what the coaches are asking them to do than "not playing well"

we may find out if I'm right next yr once Parcells and Zimmer are finally gone, I think what we see now is pretty much what we're gonna get the rest of the yr

David

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