News: ST: Cowboys coach Jason Garrett explains clock management decisions at end of Commanders game

[Eric_Boyer]

Did you really report someone on a football message board?

yes, and mods request you do as well.

you want to criticize me, please do so right here. I'll gladly report again.

 

[DandyDon52]

scoring a touchdown will never fail. the fail is what happens later. 7 points in a tie game is always good. always. it is that simple. not an opinion, an axiom

Well as steve martin used to say "well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuussssseee meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!"

 

[DandyDon52]

It's getting to the point I would rather listen to Jerry babble than JGs football speak.

yeah JG is evidently starting to copy the master of babble speak!

 

[Idgit]

Just as an aside, and I prefer to keep threads on track, but this one seems intent on derailing itself no matter what, it's much better to report potential guideline violations and then keep on topic than it is to resort to flinging poo bad and someone you think might be flinging it at you.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Claiborne one on one with DJackson was moronic when they need a TD.

The word out on VR is that he was supposed to be playing off making it essentially cover 2. We had timeouts and how come no one on that defense, Lee, Church, or anyone else who wants to call themselves a leader, fixed it. The coaches for that matter could have called one of our many timeouts.

I just hope they learn from this. Aaron Rodgers will make that read and more. One byproduct moving forward of having Jones do everything is the he will evolve into a leader of the secondary just by virtue of his knowledge.

They've started using Hardy like they did in Carolina essentially flipping the defensive formation with the strong side end, Hardy, and Hayden over the left side. Moses couldn't block DLaw on isos, Crawford was active against Sherff, and they did a good job attacking not-Sherff and the C using line stunts and blitzes. Hardy did well against Williams. I even though my whipping boy Hayden was outstanding for about 20 minutes.

 

[TheDude]

Same place you are, PFR.

And even if it is off a point or two, I'm taking the made hand over a great probability.

Bird in the hand.

And you only get to that great probability if you accept the 'huge mistake' of McFadden picking up 9 yards on first down. You can't criticize it and then factor it into your formulas.

That calculator assumes you have the ball on your hand up 7 and doesn't factor time.

Odds for wash to after that score and time yielded a 7- 15% depending on starting around the 20 or 30. That puts dallas at 86-93%

 

[DandyDon52]

So you think a RB cannot tell between a 1 or 2 yard gain and a 6 yard gain??

Honest question, everybody is entitled to their opinion and although I can´t understand your thinking, I do respect it.

You are the HC of the Commanders, what would you want for your team?

a) the other team kicking a 20 yard fg at the end of regulation in a tie game?

b) have the ball with 1:14 and two TO losing by 7


That should answer your question.

I have to go with B ! lol

 

[coult44]

bump

for fans that don't know, the coach and qb can talk through helmet communications, not the coach and running back.

the coach would of had to waste a timeout to talk to the rb about staying in bounds.

two mistakes were made on our drive.

1) we snapped the ball before the two minute warning, when we didn't need to. someone made a mistake, likely the head coach, but even here the instructions may of been to try to draw them off sides. sure, not likely, but we as fans have to accept we are ignorant of what is said.

2) we should never of went out of bounds. 2nd and 8 with the clock moving would be better then 2nd and 1 with the clock stopped, but we don't know what Garrett told the QB, and what the QB said in the huddle. we can't blame anyone for sure, except the Rb that has been in this league a long time, and went out of bounds.

Mistake that JG did not tell DMC to stay in bounds during the 4-5 mins he had between plays to do so. Pathetic actually.

 

[DandyDon52]

prove this now!!!

here is the only proof I can find about that thinking:

"Now, in that situation the nine yards is a good, but keeping the clock running is paramount and we didn’t do that," Garrett said

I could say JG said "we"
also it insinuates he did not tell dmc to not run out of bounds. or call for plays that dont go outside.
It is all speculation.
no matter what happens on the field , the HC is going to be blamed, and with some validity most of time.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Mistake that JG did not tell DMC to stay in bounds during the 4-5 mins he had between plays to do so. Pathetic actually.

I think it is pathetic a grown man that has played this game longer then the head coach needs to be told, but I'm not sure he wasn't told, and neither are you

 

[Eric_Boyer]

I could say JG said "we"
also it insinuates he did not tell dmc to not run out of bounds. or call for plays that dont go outside.
It is all speculation.
no matter what happens on the field , the HC is going to be blamed, and with some validity most of time.

LOL, it doesn't insinuate that, and I am sure plenty are "blaming him for the win"

COOKOO COOKOO

 

[Sportsbabe]

If we are playing make believe, I will take us winning 73-0.

Your hypothetical doesn't exist without accepting McFadden's first 'mistake'. That can't be a part of any sensible plan.

Have I told you lately "I love you"?

 

[tecolote]

Your problem here is that you are only considering your preferred outcome. People that are concerned about your choice aren't thinking only about those scenarios.

They are worried that a belly play on second or third down doesn't get the first, we only get a field goal and instead of being up a TD with a minute left we are up a FG with a minute left. Now your way sucks and that is not the only way that it can backfire. We had a GW FG blocked and returned against this same team in the same scenario 2 years ago.

There is a train of thought that you can overthink things in football. It's a team sport and if you call something that you have prepared it's one thing but I don't think people have really thought through what they expect from Garrett. The only way that Garrett can communicate with the players is through Cassell's helmet in the first however many seconds of the game clock. Other than that he has to call a time out.

If you want him to call that timeout to implement your plan then fine but this is not fantasy football. There are realities to what we ask of these people. I think that there is another train of thought that goes "this back just screwed up and I don't trust him right now to do very much. If he screws it up and fumbles the ball again or worse then I lose. I do not want that to happen when he has the yips. Who know what will happen if I call timeout and make a spectacle of it?"

DMC was a hedcase that day and was behaving erratically. Getting stood up once on an inside run is one thing but he wasn't right in the head. Asking him to drop at the 3 yard line is not as sure fire as people make it seem.

First of all, if your back is a headcase and you don't trust him, why would you give him the ball in the most important play of the game? That's a pretty strong indictment agaisnt a head coach.

And second of all, this is not my prefered outcome, I based my statement on what actualy happened. If you watched the play, Dmac could've easily dropped down at rhe 3 after he got the first but Garrett never told him to. By the way, that's a play they practice according to Broaddus.

 

[tecolote]

So you are positive he knew he had the first down for sure and he wasn't just insuring he did the most important thing in picking it up.

Too much nuance involved in your plan.

This isn't chess, it's football. Otherwise Harvard and MIT would be playing for the title every year. Zuckerberg could write an algorithm to know when the optimal time to gain yards vs points scored vs time left and we could just watch simulations on Madden.

Just watch the play. It's been done before, it's not rocket science, they actualy practice that play but Garrett did no call it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I see, so you have no proof. That is what I thought.

Well, your claim that Garrett specifically told them to stay in bounds and he ran out is ridiculous.

So lets move on here.

So its 2nd and 1. Do you tell Mcfadden to go down after he picks up the first down or run all the way into the endzone?

DMC said he was thinking end zone. It sure looked like the team was too. The whole way.

I know for a fact that Garrett and Linehan teach their backs to not go out of bounds. I know this because we have seen Demarco Murray and Joseph Randle do this in part of closing out our 12 wins last year.

We heard Jason Garrett say the circumstance changed when he failed to go out of bounds. 5-7 yards on first down, clock running forcing a timeout is what we wanted. In the moment Garrett is trying to run out the clock. He calls another inside run a fan blows a whistle in the stands. Commanders played true defense. Sorry we were so much better than them. I thought Tyron, LC and Fred were outstanding on the play myself.

I bet the whole team goes over 2 minute again in practice this week.

 

[tecolote]

in that play he was told to play smash mouth football. scoring a touchdown was as much of the goal as getting the first down.

in some dumb parallel universe where the play call was to only get the first down, he very well could of ran more tentatively and been dropped for a loss.

Well they practice that play, smart teams have run that play, 12 year olds playing Madden run that play.

You are like the king with no clothes, calling everybody dumb while you bask in your own bubble of ignorance.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Well they practice that play, smart teams have run that play, 12 year olds playing Madden run that play.

You are like the king with no clothes, calling everybody dumb while you bask in your own bubble of ignorance.

in a game where we were getting better push, Jason acknowledged he would consider using the play too.

I notice most of the people that like the use of vitriol when discussing the head coach, doesn’t like others doing the same against them.

 

[Idgit]

DMC said he was thinking end zone. It sure looked like the team was too. The whole way.

I know for a fact that Garrett and Linehan teach their backs to not go out of bounds. I know this because we have seen Demarco Murray and Joseph Randle do this in part of closing out our 12 wins last year.

We heard Jason Garrett say the circumstance changed when he failed to go out of bounds. 5-7 yards on first down, clock running forcing a timeout is what we wanted. In the moment Garrett is trying to run out the clock. He calls another inside run a fan blows a whistle in the stands. Commanders played true defense. Sorry we were so much better than them. I thought Tyron, LC and Fred were outstanding on the play myself.

I bet the whole team goes over 2 minute again in practice this week.

The problem with this discussion, is that there's a big old subtext here that's not really about this specific chain of events, and that's what's really feeding the debate. Time management is something Garrett has historically not been good at, and then we didn't handle this end-of-game opportunity well, and it became a bigger issue than it really needs to be. The back going out of bounds and giving up a clock-stoppage was a mental error on behalf of a veteran player. DMC has not really been prone to a lot of mistakes, and I don't really believe he'd have made this one if he didn't think he could likely get to the first down marker. He got tempted, and he went for it and ended up stopping the clock. From that point on, we're kind of arguing shades of gray.

Personally, I didn't like that sequence. I think we should have netted the first down, milked the TOs and the clock, and then played for the touch or kicked the game winner on 4th down. But playing the way we did wasn't completely insane, either. WAS isn't going for a 2 point conversion in a tie game at home in that situation, so you've got a tie in the bag and a very likely win if you just play decent ST and decent defense.
We, of course, did neither on that series. As a fan, it was all-too-predictable. As a coach, I'm taking those probabilities, every time. Even if I don't like how I got myself in that situation.

 

[tecolote]

in a game where we were getting better push, Jason acknowledged he would consider using the play too.

I notice most of the people that like the use of vitriol when discussing the head coach, doesn’t like others doing the same against them.

I called someone dumb but not Jason.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

First of all, if your back is a headcase and you don't trust him, why would you give him the ball in the most important play of the game? That's a pretty strong indictment agaisnt a head coach.

And second of all, this is not my prefered outcome, I based my statement on what actualy happened. If you watched the play, Dmac could've easily dropped down at rhe 3 after he got the first but Garrett never told him to. By the way, that's a play they practice according to Broaddus.

Your scenario of getting a first down and clocking it three times to time so you can kick a FG as time expires is not reality. You are taking you preferred outcome, everything works as planned, comparing it to reality and acting like that is sufficient. We have pointed out multiple ways at each individual point of your plan that things could go awry.

Although running the clock with a lead is the ultimate goal, scoring a TD is the next best conclusion to a drive.