State of the Team

[daveferr33]

By all means change it, but dont act like you always knew the outcome when you were happy they picked him up.

I agree.

 

[xwalker]

I was just eyeballing our roster on the team website and I wanted to break down the players to get a real sense of the state of the team before we flip over the couch cushions and enter FA like a wounded lamb.

This was done with an eye to the future. I put them into 6 categories.

Seniors: Quality players who are huge factors now but don't have much of a future with this team.
Core: Established productive young (enough) players you can build around.
Hopes: Young players who have the potential to work their way into the core.
Role: Players who are limited but can be productive within a role on this team. Also any kickers.
Bodies: Spare parts. Players who can make a roster but are easily replaceable.
Flush: Players who either for a lack of talent or a poor contract, need to go now.

A few notes:

I batted around where to put Romo. He could be the QB here for another 5 or 6 years, making him core worthy. But he could also be playing his last couple of years in Dallas with that back. I'm playing it conservative and putting him in with the seniors.

I know most would put Brandon Carr among the core players. I am not one of those people. He's probably the single most over paid player in the league and I'd look to get out of that contract pronto. I could replace Brandon Carr in the 3rd round of this draft class.

Bernadeau is in with the role players. That role being a C/G backup. I like him there. I do not like him as a starting player.

Try not to hyperventilate over where I have Barry Church and/or Doug Free. To me, these guys are bad starters on a bad team. I actually think Church has talent but the game has evolved away from his strengths and exposes his weaknesses. He can not cover a route of ground like you need these days from your safeties. An in the box safety belongs in the Bodies list in today's NFL.

Yes, I expect DeMarcus Ware to remain a Cowboy but with his injuries the last couple of seasons I could not include him in any long term core of players.

No impending free agents with the exception of the exclusive rights FA Chris Jones. I did not include any practice squad players. I just didn't have time to break down all that talent.

If you disagree with any of these evaluations feel free to chime in and tell me why you're wrong.

Here is your state of the Dallas Cowboys. Peek through your fingers.

-

Seniors
Tony Romo
DeMarcus Ware
Jason Witten

Core
Dez Bryant
Travis Frederick
Sean Lee
DeMarco Murray
Orlando Scandrick
Tyron Smith

Hopes
Bruce Carter
Morris Claiborne
Tyrone Crawford
Gavin Escobar
DeVonte Holloman
Ronald Leary
B.W. Webb
Kyle Wilber
J.J. Wilcox
Terrance Williams

Role
Dan Bailey
Cole Beasley
Mackenzy Bernadeau
Dwayne Harris
L.P. Ladouceur
Sterling Moore
Kyle Orton
George Selvie

Bodies
Ben Bass
Barry Church
Tyler Clutts
Lance Dunbar
Justin Durant
Doug Free
James Hanna
Chris Jones
Jermey Parnell
Joseph Randle
Darrion Weems

Flush
Miles Austin
Brandon Carr
Phil Costa
Jakar Hamilton
Nick Hayden
Jeff Heath
Matt Johnson
Frank Kearse
Cameron Lawrence
Orie Lemon
Martez Wilson

The good thing is that there is no need to do this type of evaluation at this point. They only need to evaluate the expensive players at this point and bring everybody with any shred of potential to training camp to compete for a job.

There is no reason to "flush" players like Hamilton, Heath, Johnson etc. at this point. They all have reasonable physical ability and there is no downside to keeping them on the 90 man roster.

 

[LatinMind]

The good thing is that there is no need to do this type of evaluation at this point. They only need to evaluate the expensive players at this point and bring everybody with any shred of potential to training camp to compete for a job.

There is no reason to "flush" players like Hamilton, Heath, Johnson etc. at this point. They all have reasonable physical ability and there is no downside to keeping them on the 90 man roster.

Flush Johnson all the way to china

 

[TrailBlazer]

Core of this team

Romo: He is 32 not 37. Like it or not he's going to be on this team for atleast 4-5 more yrs. Being as he's already getting ready for the season maybe that surgery did the job. Sometimes the easiest and simpliest surgery is needed to get rid of nagging issues that are a big reason for reaccuring injuries.

Murray: Dallas doesnt sound like a team that is going to get rid of Murray anytime soon unless injuries are just too much. He seemed to do just fine with that last yr.

Dez: No explaination needed

TW: He had a very good rookie yr and basically made Austin a non factor.

Witten: This guy just looks like he can play forever.

Tyron: See Dez

Leary: Guy was very good his first yr starting. he teamed up with Tyron to form one of the best left sides in the NFL

Fredrick: Everything on the OL starts with him

Ware: Until he is no longer a Cowboy he is a core player.

Lee: He makes the defense run

Church: he is one of the best and surest tacklers in the nfl.

Bailey: one of the best kickers in the NFL

Role players

Carter: until he can get his form back, he's a role player. I have no doubt he will turn into that core player we saw in 2012

Bernadeau: He plays the enforcer role on the OL. Smack you in your mouth

Carr: Man CB, I think under marinelli he earns his worth with more pressure man.

Scandrick: Physical CB, the guy you want playing slot to hit them WRs or hit that QB on the blitz

Here is the problem for Dallas not enough role players. But its due more to age and inexperience then just being bad. People just dont realize how young this team really is.

Hopes

Escobar: If he's given the chance he can ball plain and simple.

Dunbar: if he can stay healthy watch out on 3rd downs

Free: Give me one more yr, then see ya

Selvie: if he can build on 2013, he will be a Cowboy in 2015

Crawford: if he can play that 1 tech for this defense it will make things alot easier

Bass: Can he stay just as hungry as he was last yr?

SAM: Hollomon, Wilber, very young but both showed improvement at the end of the yr

Claiborne: we saw flashes of a totally different CB, hungry CB. Can he put injuries away?

Wilcox: can he grasp the system this yr? Because the guy has alot of natural talent.

Heath: he's been at VR everyday this offseason, improving?

Hard to agree with some of these evaluations. You really think witten looks like he can play forever? A blind man could see that he's lost a step and his best days are behind him.
And I think it's a stretch to say romo will be here another five years. Coming off 2 back surgeries, I'm confident when I say romo will not be playing at an elite level in 4-5 years from now. That's an unreasonable expectation IMO.

Ware church and Leary are all average players in this league. They should be role players not core. But Dallas just doesn't have the top tier talent so these guys are forced to take on bigger roles. I think Dallas' roster is below average in talent across the board.

 

[rd26]

I dont hear see or read anybody crying about Carr's contract when he signed it. This forum seemed to like it. Now all of the sudden they act like they were always opposed

Well, I wasn't around when Carr was signed, but........

We paid market value for Carr. The problem is, then, just as now, market value for a reasonably young, above average player at a premium position far, far exceeds real value. Im never in favor of spending 10% of your cap on a slightly above average player, no matter how large the hole in your roster.

I am a big fan of the Boldin, Terry Glenn type deals. They are also usually expensive, but if the player still has some tread on his tires, you can draft a replacement in the mid rounds and buy time to develop them. The huge advantage to signing the older guys is the divorce should be relatively painless, You are adding age to your roster, but your focus stays on youth.

Where I disagree with a large percentage of the posters here, is I would not be at all opposed to signing Hatcher (just as an example) to a 2 or 3 year deal, buying some time for affordable guys like Crawford to potentially develop and taking SOME of the urgency out of the draft at that position. My one contingency on that or any other FA signing would be that under no circumstances do you sign anyone that prevents you from keeping guys like Dez or even Murray around who you want in your plans years down the road.

 

[xwalker]

Flush Johnson all the way to china

Why? Just to make fans feel better? At this point there is zero costs to keeping him for training camp.

People like to rag on Jerry for making emotional decisions over sound football decisions, yet the same people show that they would also make emotional decisions over football decisions if they had the opportunity.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Vinatieri was the reason they won the superbowl

Saying Vinatieri is the reason they won the SB is like saying Robert Horry is the reason why the Lakers won the 2002 NBA title. If that's what you're saying, then I guess we've reached a point where arguing is pointless.

 

[LatinMind]

Saying Vinatieri is the reason they won the SB is like saying Robert Horry is the reason why the Lakers won the 2002 NBA title. If that's what you're saying, then I guess we've reached a point where arguing is pointless.

Vintieri is literally the reason they won the superbowl. Who made thw winning kick?

 

[Risen Star]

Well, I wasn't around when Carr was signed, but........

We paid market value for Carr. The problem is, then, just as now, market value for a reasonably young, above average player at a premium position far, far exceeds real value. Im never in favor of spending 10% of your cap on a slightly above average player, no matter how large the hole in your roster.

I am a big fan of the Boldin, Terry Glenn type deals. They are also usually expensive, but if the player still has some tread on his tires, you can draft a replacement in the mid rounds and buy time to develop them. The huge advantage to signing the older guys is the divorce should be relatively painless, You are adding age to your roster, but your focus stays on youth.

Where I disagree with a large percentage of the posters here, is I would not be at all opposed to signing Hatcher (just as an example) to a 2 or 3 year deal, buying some time for affordable guys like Crawford to potentially develop and taking SOME of the urgency out of the draft at that position. My one contingency on that or any other FA signing would be that under no circumstances do you sign anyone that prevents you from keeping guys like Dez or even Murray around who you want in your plans years down the road.

I was always opposed to signing Carr.

But that's what they do. Be wrong. Then pretend you were wrong with them.

 

[Risen Star]

The good thing is that there is no need to do this type of evaluation at this point. They only need to evaluate the expensive players at this point and bring everybody with any shred of potential to training camp to compete for a job.

There is no reason to "flush" players like Hamilton, Heath, Johnson etc. at this point. They all have reasonable physical ability and there is no downside to keeping them on the 90 man roster.

There's no need to evaluate your roster in the offseason? Is that right?

The goal would be to start next season without the guys on the flush list.

 

[xwalker]

There's no need to evaluate your roster in the offseason? Is that right?

The goal would be to start next season without the guys on the flush list.

Not in terms of cutting players like Heath, Johnson and Hamilton. There is no value in distinguishing if Heath is in the categories of flush, bodies, role or hopes. They only need to know which players have a high probability of being a quality starter in 2014 in order to access their needs in the draft and free agency. Heath is obviously not in the category as a having a high probability of being a quality starter in 2014. Beyond that, it does not really matter which of the other categories that he is in at this point in time. Once training camp is over, then it becomes critical to properly evaluate the fringe players.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Why? Just to make fans feel better? At this point there is zero costs to keeping him for training camp.

People like to rag on Jerry for making emotional decisions over sound football decisions, yet the same people show that they would also make emotional decisions over football decisions if they had the opportunity.

Yep.

I understand that fans are frustrated with Johnson and his two injury filled seasons, but to dump the guy at this point would be akin to cutting ones nose off to spite their face.

Would it be stunning to have him come into camp this year, show some of the physical ability he showed in college and come away with contributing a lot this season? I for one wouldn't be stunned.

 

[TheDude]

Why? Just to make fans feel better? At this point there is zero costs to keeping him for training camp.

People like to rag on Jerry for making emotional decisions over sound football decisions, yet the same people show that they would also make emotional decisions over football decisions if they had the opportunity.

And to think, George Iloka was there for the taking - rated higher by every draft site I read (which is an oxymoron since Johnson was expected a an UDFA at best).

 

[xwalker]

And to think, George Iloka was there for the taking - rated higher by every draft site I read (which is an oxymoron since Johnson was expected a an UDFA at best).

Thanks for helping to show that fans have a difficult time with logic vs emotion.

The emotion that you believe that Matt Johnson was a bad draft pick should not interfere with the decision in 2014 with regards to keeping or cutting him in March. They have already spent the draft pick and whatever resources were required to keep him on the team up to this point. There is zero cost to keeping him from now to training camp. His salary is doubtful to even be in the top 51 that count against the cap once the draft picks are added.

 

[TheDude]

Thanks for helping to show that fans have a difficult time with logic vs emotion.

The emotion that you believe that Matt Johnson was a bad draft pick should not interfere with the decision in 2014 with regards to keeping or cutting him in March. They have already spent the draft pick and whatever resources were required to keep him on the team up to this point. There is zero cost to keeping him from now to training camp. His salary is doubtful to even be in the top 51 that count against the cap once the draft picks are added.

Logic says don't overdraft a small school injury-prone player and talk him up as a long-term player prioir to first pre-season game. Hopefully you understand the difference between that and emotion that others use stating threads that Johnson and Heath are Safeties of the future. In fact there was a Johnson thread right after his preseason tackle.

Could care less if they keep him through camp. Not expecting he is a lynchpin for the pass defense....2 years in and hasn't seen the field

 

[Venger]

What would be the best way to get Jerry and his son to change their ways or to get them out of the picture?

Steady aim.

 

[Risen Star]

Not in terms of cutting players like Heath, Johnson and Hamilton. There is no value in distinguishing if Heath is in the categories of flush, bodies, role or hopes. They only need to know which players have a high probability of being a quality starter in 2014 in order to access their needs in the draft and free agency. Heath is obviously not in the category as a having a high probability of being a quality starter in 2014. Beyond that, it does not really matter which of the other categories that he is in at this point in time. Once training camp is over, then it becomes critical to properly evaluate the fringe players.

It's about evaluating the state of your roster. Something you do this time of year. Identify the guys who can play and those that can't. The guys I have on that flush list can't play or carry a contract that warrants cutting, IMO.

You may disagree, but don't tell me teams don't evaluate their roster this time of year. That they wait until camp is over and go, well what do we have here?

 

[Risen Star]

Logic says don't overdraft a small school injury-prone player and talk him up as a long-term player prioir to first pre-season game. Hopefully you understand the difference between that and emotion that others use stating threads that Johnson and Heath are Safeties of the future. In fact there was a Johnson thread right after his preseason tackle.

Could care less if they keep him through camp. Not expecting he is a lynchpin for the pass defense....2 years in and hasn't seen the field

You have to understand. Matt Johnson ran a really good 3 cone drill.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Vintieri is literally the reason they won the superbowl. Who made thw winning kick?

So is John Paxson the reason why the Bulls won the 1993 NBA finals?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Thanks for helping to show that fans have a difficult time with logic vs emotion.

The emotion that you believe that Matt Johnson was a bad draft pick should not interfere with the decision in 2014 with regards to keeping or cutting him in March. They have already spent the draft pick and whatever resources were required to keep him on the team up to this point. There is zero cost to keeping him from now to training camp. His salary is doubtful to even be in the top 51 that count against the cap once the draft picks are added.

I think he was a decent gamble in the round selected.

Matt Johnson wasn't injury prone in college... He started in 38 games over 3 years.