Stats Before and after - what the Atlanta game did to Dak

[HungryLion]

I don't give an expletive about the stats I saw the game. He wasn't close to good in that game. Stats need to verify what was saw on field not on their on tell the story. You go peddle that junk to some fantasy nerd but it doesn't work on me.

I guess you didn’t watch the Bucs, lions and Packers games with your eyes though, again all after the lions and Vikings.

You’re right though. Facts rarely do work on ignorant, arrogant fools such as yourself.

 

[TwentyOne]

It's been discussed many times how the 27-7 loss last November in Atlanta was disastrous for this team. Looking at stats, it was clearly most disastrous for Dak Prescott. In terms of how it mentally affected Dak and this team, it was one of the worst losses in Cowboys regular season history.

Let’s look at Dak’s stats pre 2017 Atlanta game, then after the Atlanta game all the way to now.

DAK STATS BEFORE 2017 ATL GAME
2016- 23 TDS, 4 INTs
2017- (before Atl game) 16 TDs, 4 INTs
COMBINED 2016 and 8 2017 GAMES BEFORE ATL GAME: 39 TDs and 8 INTs

DAK STATS AFTER 2017 ATL GAME
2017-(after Atl game) 6 TDs, 9 INTs
2018- (so far) 11 TDs, 5 INTs
COMBINED 2017 and 2018 STATS AFTER ATL GAME: 17 TDs, 14 INTs

Just looking at Dak’s stats it’s pretty clear that Atlanta game last year did something to his confidence and performance.

I clearly remember watching Chaz Green get destroyed play after play by the mediocre Adrian Clayborn and also watching in sheer disbelief as Garett just stood there clapping while his (at that time) 24 year old QB gets thrown around like a rag doll. And no adjustments were made until late 3rd qtr. Garrett should have been fired on the plane ride home.

Coaching matters. And as the stats make clear, some games are so poorly coached it can have lingering effects. Especially when the head coach is the worst in the league at managing in-game situations. The game Sun in Atl is a chance to exercise those demons or to add to them.

I dont believe in overinterpreting those games.

In fact if a persons self confidence is so low that he cant get back from a game like this then he shouldnt be in a high end sport or business anyways. But i dont believe you will make it that far also. You will always have those experiences in your career.

Dak is what he always was. To put it like he suddenly changed or lost his talent because of one game just has a bad taste of excuse in it.

Dak has all the flaws he had in college. That his first year was a good one and after that he faltered is just because that is the way pro sports work. DCs need a year for a QB to scheme. Especially his second and third year.shows if he has enough talent. Dak has not. He is a good college QB. Nothing less but no more also.

Now we gave him a legit #1 WR so he can stick to what he can do: lock to one guy and hope he will get open. That will get you in the playoffs (maybe), make (some) fans happy and create alot of revenue. But thats it....

 

[Denim Chicken]

*Checks Wentz and Rodgers #s*

Not sure I see what you're trying to say...

Look at the win column, bud.

 

[aria]

I agree there needs to be a bigger sampling size but I do see a difference in this offense and in Dak play. As for injuries please do not go there, Dallas gets injury I am told no excuse so why would I give a damn about Philly or anyone else's injuries besides isn't Philly coached by a guy who over came injuries? well he did not over come this time. I agree Dak will miss reads and has missed opportunity and he must continue to work and improve in this as well as getting the ball out quicker at times. He entered this season with 1 WR he had any real playing time with in Beasley, I think he is starting to get in sync with these other WR and I think Cooper is helping that transition because he is great about getting separation within his routs. I think as Gallup continues to develop we will see a better feel between him and Dak.

As I said I see things Dak can and must continue to improve on but I will not sit here and join the beat up Dak crowd and over look things that are improving

I hate using injuries as an excuse but in extreme cases, such as Philthy, I think there is a lot of legitimacy behind it. People still use Chaz Green, Zeke’s suspension, Sean Lee, Frederick, etc as an excuse and while those definitely hurt it wasn’t like an entire position group was wiped out, along with their starting RB, secondary RB, RT, WR, DE, DT and a few others.

Imagine if our entire secondary wasn’t playing but one CB then he goes down and an undrafted FA comes in to play with the other back ups and we proceed to get scored on twice and lose as soon as that happens. Imagine if Cooper was out, Zeke was out, Rod Smith was out, Lawrence was out, Smith was out, Awuzie out, Jones out, on and on.

When we lost, everyone here would be using that as an excuse and that is one of the rare instances I would support that excuse. We have a few injuries but overall we’ve been very fortunate this year, the Eagles may have the most injuries in the league and have been absolutely decimated. I don’t care if it’s a divisional rival or not, the game shouldn’t even have been as close as it was with that many injuries which is why I was happy but not impressed.

 

[Doomsday101]

I hate using injuries as an excuse but in extreme cases, such as Philthy, I think there is a lot of legitimacy behind it. People still use Chaz Green, Zeke’s suspension, Sean Lee, Frederick, etc as an excuse and while those definitely hurt it wasn’t like an entire position group was wiped out, along with their starting RB, secondary RB, RT, WR, DE, DT and a few others.

Imagine if our entire secondary wasn’t playing but one CB then he goes down and an undrafted FA comes in to play with the other back ups and we proceed to get scored on twice and lose as soon as that happens. Imagine if Cooper was out, Zeke was out, Rod Smith was out, Lawrence was out, Smith was out, Awuzie out, Jones out, on and on.

When we lost, everyone here would be using that as an excuse and that is one of the rare instances I would support that excuse. We have a few injuries but overall we’ve been very fortunate this year, the Eagles may have the most injuries in the league and have been absolutely decimated. I don’t care if it’s a divisional rival or not, the game shouldn’t even have been as close as it was with that many injuries which is why I was happy but not impressed.

yeah and the crowd here is quick to point out that it should not matter that Smith was out or Zeke was out or Lee was out. So I don't care about injuries I don't make the excuse for the Cowboys nor do I make them for others. As I said to those who want to come here and make thread after thread of how poor Dak is, fine they have the right and I have as much right to point out that since Cooper has arrived Dak numbers have also gone up and others at WR are starting to make plays as well. I agree Dak has more to work on but right now at least I see guys in the WR core who are starting to help him out.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It's been discussed many times how the 27-7 loss last November in Atlanta was disastrous for this team. Looking at stats, it was clearly most disastrous for Dak Prescott. In terms of how it mentally affected Dak and this team, it was one of the worst losses in Cowboys regular season history.

Let’s look at Dak’s stats pre 2017 Atlanta game, then after the Atlanta game all the way to now.

DAK STATS BEFORE 2017 ATL GAME
2016- 23 TDS, 4 INTs
2017- (before Atl game) 16 TDs, 4 INTs
COMBINED 2016 and 8 2017 GAMES BEFORE ATL GAME: 39 TDs and 8 INTs

DAK STATS AFTER 2017 ATL GAME
2017-(after Atl game) 6 TDs, 9 INTs
2018- (so far) 11 TDs, 5 INTs
COMBINED 2017 and 2018 STATS AFTER ATL GAME: 17 TDs, 14 INTs

Just looking at Dak’s stats it’s pretty clear that Atlanta game last year did something to his confidence and performance.

I clearly remember watching Chaz Green get destroyed play after play by the mediocre Adrian Clayborn and also watching in sheer disbelief as Garett just stood there clapping while his (at that time) 24 year old QB gets thrown around like a rag doll. And no adjustments were made until late 3rd qtr. Garrett should have been fired on the plane ride home.

Coaching matters. And as the stats make clear, some games are so poorly coached it can have lingering effects. Especially when the head coach is the worst in the league at managing in-game situations. The game Sun in Atl is a chance to exercise those demons or to add to them.

The Atlanta game did NOTHING to Dak. What it did was mark the big decline in the Oline.

The decline actually started in the offseason of 2017 when Leary and Free were replaced by Cooper and Collins. We saw signs of it before the Atlanta game, but the line was still holding it together. The when Smith went out for the Atlanta game and replaced by Chaz Green the line completely collapsed.

Which has continued into this season. Although we got Smith back (shadow) we lost someone even more important in Frederick. And add to that a rookie LG.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I guess I'm more interested in Dak's numbers after getting a true #1 WR to work with. Over the 2 games Dak has had Cooper he is 47/67 for a 69.95% completion rate, 513 yard (256.5 yards per game) for a QB rating of 101.5, 3 TD passing 1 rushing and 1 int. He has also been sacked 9 times total in the past 2 games so Dak is starting to post quality numbers even as he is facing pressure

And the line has started to pull it together starting with last game. I have my doubts that will continue.

 

[CowboyRoy]

yeah and the crowd here is quick to point out that it should not matter that Smith was out or Zeke was out or Lee was out. So I don't care about injuries I don't make the excuse for the Cowboys nor do I make them for others. As I said to those who want to come here and make thread after thread of how poor Dak is, fine they have the right and I have as much right to point out that since Cooper has arrived Dak numbers have also gone up and others at WR are starting to make plays as well. I agree Dak has more to work on but right now at least I see guys in the WR core who are starting to help him out.

Those that say receivers, Oline play, coaching doesnt matter and all we need is Tom Brady are a bunch of football dummies. Its as simple as that.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

It makes for a great narrative but it makes zero sense if any critical thinking is applied. Dak didn’t even play that bad against the Falcons, he had a tough 11 yard run for a score and completed most of the passes he needed when the line could be bothered to block. There’s no one, exact reason for the slide in our passing game. But around that time defenses found some weaknesses in the passing game, and it’s a copycat league.

 

[Zman5]

I've been trying to think of an example of a QB who has recovered from a beating like that and gone on to be as good or better than they were... coming up blank.

Aikman once he got a new competent coach.

 

[Meat-O-Rama]

Maybe this will help, for some odd reason a lot of Cowboys fans think our players are the only “victims”.

To name a few, Mariota has already done it this year after being sacked ELEVEN times. Rothlesberger, Stafford, Newton, Smith, and Matt Ryan all had more sacks in a single game than Dak and they seem to be doing just fine.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_single_game.htm

I guess I should be more clear. I'm trying to think of someone in recent history who has taken a beating, gotten shell shocked and regressed, but ultimately recovered. Like you pointed out those guys have taken multiple beatings and kept playing at a high level. That's not the case with Dak.

 

[Plankton]

I've been trying to think of an example of a QB who has recovered from a beating like that and gone on to be as good or better than they were... coming up blank.

Look no further than Troy Aikman post-Eagle game in 1991.

Roger Staubach was also sacked 7 times in Super Bowl X, and somehow recovered to win another Super Bowl and barely losing a second one. One of the main pre-requisites to being a top echelon QB is being mentally tough. If you can't recover from being sacked/hit a bunch of times in a game, then you likely aren't mentally tough enough to be a top echelon QB. Prescott showed a glass jaw that day. It remains to be seen whether he can overcome it, but thus far, it doesn't look promising.

 

[Zman5]

aikman was once sacked 11 times in a game by buddy ryan's eagles. brutal to watch. but he recovered and won super bowls.

Norv had lot to do with his recovery.

 

[Plankton]

Norv had lot to do with his recovery.

Norv was the coach when Aikman got sacked that many times.

 

[percyhoward]

Dak’s cracks started showing late in ‘16 when teams had enough film on him to understand how to force him into throws he struggled with.

Defenses didn't seem nearly as prepared when facing all five starting offensive linemen as they were against a backup.

2017
Prescott
with all 5 OL playing most of game
212 of 338 2464 yd (7.3 ypa) 21 td 6 int 98.0
without
79 of 122 681 yd (5.6 ypa) 0 td 7 int 55.4

Offense
with all 5 OL playing most of game
300 points on 111 drives (2.70 ppd)
28.4 ppg with typical number of drives
without
40 points on 52 drives (0.77 ppd)
8.1 ppg with typical number of drives

Very little of it was about teams figuring out Prescott. It was -- and to a degree still is -- about Prescott being unable to handle poor pass protection.

 

[Zman5]

Norv was the coach when Aikman got sacked that many times.

I am talking about the reason he was able to recover from a game like that. Had Shula been his coach still he would not have recovered from games like that.

 

[Plankton]

I am talking about the reason he was able to recover from a game like that. Had Shula been his coach still he would not have recovered from games like that.

I disagree. It's all on the player to mentally recover. It's up to the coach to create the environment and system for them to perform. Getting the yips is not a coaching issue - it's a player issue.

 

[TexasHillbilly]

They all don’t need All Pro talent surrounding them.

Even though Packers lost last nite , Rodgers looked very effective.

Does Dak ever look effective in losses?

Not many qb's look effective in losses. There are a few exceptions like Aaron. The guy is just good. Seems to me the Packs D wasn't very effective.

 

[aria]

yeah and the crowd here is quick to point out that it should not matter that Smith was out or Zeke was out or Lee was out. So I don't care about injuries I don't make the excuse for the Cowboys nor do I make them for others. As I said to those who want to come here and make thread after thread of how poor Dak is, fine they have the right and I have as much right to point out that since Cooper has arrived Dak numbers have also gone up and others at WR are starting to make plays as well. I agree Dak has more to work on but right now at least I see guys in the WR core who are starting to help him out.

I agree, it shouldn’t matter much when a couple players are out but when close to 11 starters are out and an entire position group then that’s a different story.

Regardless, glad you’re not one of the ones alwaus making excuses. Agreed on the rest, lets just hope his uptrend continues for several games.

 

[aria]

I guess I should be more clear. I'm trying to think of someone in recent history who has taken a beating, gotten shell shocked and regressed, but ultimately recovered. Like you pointed out those guys have taken multiple beatings and kept playing at a high level. That's not the case with Dak.

Gotchya, glad you cleared that up, that’s not how I interpreted it and I don’t have an answer. That’s definitely more tricky, and as you said, there’s no one that comes immediately to mind.