Stephen on Dak as a franchise quarterback

[ABQCOWBOY]

No you didn't...
What QB metric determines whether or not a QB is a "special thrower of the football"?

Boy, where do you start? For me, it has always been championships. But everybody always goes crazy when I say that so you can look at stats. You can also look at production and yes, like it or not, you can watch a QB play and see where the holes in his game are. All of those things serve as metrics.

One of my favorite discussions on this topic is the Marino theory. Marino was about as good of a thrower as you will ever see in the NFL. Maybe he best I've ever seen, better then Favre IMO but doesn't matter. A great QB but not the best by a long shot IMO. Why, because he never would do what it took to actually win a championship. He never made the sacrifice it took. He needed to allow for a running game and not just throw the ball all the time, even though he was great at it. That is why Miami never won a championship with him. That's also why I have much more respect for a player like Dak. He doesn't have that ego thing that stands in the way of being a great QB. Now, before he can truly become great, he has to get better in certain areas and yes, one of them is being able to throw the football but, he has a lot of the hard stuff already figured out. That's a big deal to me.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I agree with you but he's getting top 5 mone

Problem is that when you give top 5 money at a key position to an average player you hamstring yourself

So your saying that Dak is a top 15 QB in only his 3rd year in the league?

And you think that's an insult?

So there are only 14 QB's better than you in all of football and its the most important position in the game? You trolls get more laughable all the time.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

Throwing a football really far I would assume lol

Think sunshine from remember the Titans.

What metric measures "special in terms of throwing football"

 

[CowboyRoy]

QB salaries are ridiculous and the QB market will dictate what Dak gets paid. There’s no way around overpaying a starting QB these days, especially a young QB.

When you deal with cry babies, common sense doesnt factor in.

 

[Qcard]

Whatever it is, it’s probably more reliable than the brain dead and made up “QB winz” stat.

Probably more.....probably more is not factual.

Do you have answer for my question?

What metric measures if a QB is a "speciial thrower of the football"

 

[Sarge]

Top 5 QB contract today can very well be a top 15 contract 3-4 years from now.

Exactly!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No you didn't...
What QB metric determines whether or not a QB is a "special thrower of the football"?

BTW, your earlier post didn't have a period or a question mark so no way to tell if you were making a statement or asking a question. Just so you understand.

 

[817Gill]

I just hope we don’t make Dak a top 5 paid QB or anything ridiculous.

He’s probably right around the 15th best QB in the league. So I don’t know why he wouldn’t get league average money. But whatever. I’ve resigned myself to it.

I like Dak. I think we can win with Dak. But he’s not elite. We shouldn’t pay him like he is.

Guys Qb’s are not paid solely on talent! This is what hangs most people up when talking about Dak’s contract numbers.

Any team who finds their franchise qb will pay him market value, which at the qb position is based almost solely on timing. Goff, Mahomes, Wentz, Winston/Mariota, or anyone who’s seen as the franchise guy by their organization is going to get paid.

Those deals aren’t worked out by what rank you are in the league, but by the CBA. All of those guys (if seen as the franchise guy) will make 25-30+, and the price will rise one contract after the other.

Blame the CBA, blame the players union or the league offices, blame the importance of the qb position idc. But once a team sees a qb as their franchise guy he is immediately in line for a deal at or near the top of the market.

Is it right? Should that be how it’s done? Probably not, that’s why it’s going to be one of the biggest issues in the new CBA.

But for as long as this CBA goes, arguing that Dak should be getting the salary his talent suggests is pointless and misinformed. Franchise qbs get franchise qb deals, simple.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Probably more.....probably more is not factual.

Do you have answer for my question?

What metric measures if a QB is a "speciial thrower of the football"

I don’t think there is one... I know what he’s talking about and agree that actually throwing the ball isn’t Dak’s strength. But it’s an eye test thing... most stats can’t differentiate between a 50 yard screen pass and a 50 yard thread the needle bomb...

 

[Qcard]

Boy, where do you start? For me, it has always been championships. But everybody always goes crazy when I say that so you can look at stats. You can also look at production and yes, like it or not, you can watch a QB play and see where the holes in his game are. All of those things serve as metrics.

One of my favorite discussions on this topic is the Marino theory. Marino was about as good of a thrower as you will ever see in the NFL. Maybe he best I've ever seen, better then Favre IMO but doesn't matter. A great QB but not the best by a long shot IMO. Why, because he never would do what it took to actually win a championship. He never made the sacrifice it took. He needed to allow for a running game and not just throw the ball all the time, even though he was great at it. That is why Miami never won a championship with him. That's also why I have much more respect for a player like Dak. He doesn't have that ego thing that stands in the way of being a great QB. Now, before he can truly become great, he has to get better in certain areas and yes, one of them is being able to throw the football but, he has a lot of the hard stuff already figured out. That's a big deal to me.

So, I hope it's fair to surmiss in your opinion some of the determination has to do with eye test?

 

[817Gill]

Top 5 QB contract today can very well be a top 15 contract 3-4 years from now.

Shoot less than that. Russ, Mahomes, and Wentz should all be at or near 40M with this CBA. Throw in Goff too at this point

 

[Nav22]

I don't think it's fair to call the OL average last year. Not as good as they have been in years past, thats fair to me but they were still pretty good last year, especially in the run game. Just my opinion.

Not that I’ve ever put much stock into PFF, but PFF had them ranked 14th last year.

With injuries to Frederick, Martin and Tyron not being 100%, they were definitely not what they’ve been in the past. When you consider the resources we’ve poured into that unit, it’s a huge negative when they’re anything short of outstanding.

 

[817Gill]

As long as we can keep most of our players I do not care what Dak makes. But man it will be a hard pill to swallow if Kurt "I wish you were not my" Cousins is making more than Dak when its all said and done.

This. Some people are more concerned about the number than the functionality. If he gets 30 and we keep who we need then everyone wins.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So, I hope it's fair to surmiss in your opinion some of the determination has to do with eye test?

Of course. I mean, I would hope that you would also see it as fair that what you see is pertinent to any sort of opinion on virtually anything, correct?

 

[Qcard]

I don’t think there is one... I know what he’s talking about and agree that actually throwing the ball isn’t Dak’s strength. But it’s an eye test thing... most stats can’t differentiate between a 50 yard screen pass and a 50 yard thread the needle bomb...

Great post.
I'd argue "QB wins" became more important because of the subjective eye test.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not that I’ve ever put much stock into PFF, but PFF had them ranked 14th last year.

With injuries to Frederick, Martin and Tyron not being 100%, they were definitely not what they’ve been in the past. When you consider the resources we’ve poured into that unit, it’s a huge negative when they’re anything short of outstanding.

Yes and no. I mean, early in the season, I think they were much worse. Later in the season, they were much better but they had to work some things out and that's a bit of a process. I don't think it's investment for not. I think that last year was a sito where we got hit with a few different things and they kinda snowballed. This year, every reason to believe that things will be different IMO.

 

[JoeKing]

Gotta be honest here, I hated to hear Stephen say this contract stuff on Dak. Not because I hate Dak, on contrary, I like him. I hated it because it tells me that Garrett isn't going anywhere. Who signs a QB like Dak to a big time contract when you might have to fire your HC and bring in somebody else? Nobody does that because you want to allow your new HC to make changes and you don't want him tied to a contract on a QB that might not fit his scheme.

...unless you know who that next coach will be and have had a private conversation with him about Dak.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

...unless you know who that next coach will be and have had a private conversation with him about Dak.

That's never a sure thing, as you know but yeah, that's a possibility for sure.

 

[Qcard]

Of course. I mean, I would hope that you would also see it as fair that what you see is pertinent to any sort of opinion on virtually anything, correct?

Yes but eye is so subjective. It needs quantfiable metrics for justification.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Not that I’ve ever put much stock into PFF, but PFF had them ranked 14th last year.

With injuries to Frederick, Martin and Tyron not being 100%, they were definitely not what they’ve been in the past. When you consider the resources we’ve poured into that unit, it’s a huge negative when they’re anything short of outstanding.

Actually, you're off a bit for blocking efficiency ( a lot ) .......they were 22nd

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...l-offensive-lines-by-pass-blocking-efficiency