Steve Smith to the Cowboys?

iceberg

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dueyhemlock;2176190 said:
Ice, I think Jerry would trade a 5 mil price tag for a better chance at another ring. If TO goes down, Smith can definitely handle the #1 WR spot, can Patrick. Smith would be our expensive insurance policy. I used Patrick in that trade scenario because Carolina would more than likely want someone to fill that void, a vet.

The Madden referrence in regards to the money isn't the issue. The issue is championships and Jerry would scarifice what is needed to get him/us there once again.

I wouldn't want to lose that 5 mil cap space. It will probably cost us down the road in form of not being able to resign our own players. :(

so, why would jones sign crayton to a long term contract and trade him a year later? is that not the defination of ADD? always chasing what you "don't" have? and if we didn't "have it" why pay crayton "for it"?

it's more than just trading chips around and paying prices. $5mil is nothing to sneeze at and you just say "pay it" as if that's the ticket and all will be good. sure TO may be hurt. or steve smith may get hurt and we look even more fooling for our overpaying.

in the end it *does* seem people have this crazy trade scenario for just about anything and yes, reality does get put away so you can live in this "fantasy world" that madden has fostered.

i can't play halo so no comment. :)
 

AbeBeta

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zrinkill;2176121 said:
Again ..... Glenn wins.

I love Glenn -- but to be fair here. You have to look at the guys each had throwing the ball. For Glenn, he played 7 years with Bledsoe -- we may slam Drew here but his game is a great match for Glenn and had some very productive seasons with Glenn as his #1. Glenn next went to GB and played with .... Favre for a season. He put up with the Carter/Testeverde mess for a couple years. Then had Drew here and then most of a year with Romo. On the whole, he's had some good QBs throwing to him -- more importantly, he's had guys who put up big numbers.

Moss had a mix of Pennington, Testeverde, Brunell, Jason Campbell, and Todd Collins.

There is a real difference in QB quality to be considered there.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I don't know if this trade will ever happen but IMO, you have to look at risk reward here. It's interesting because this is exactly what Jerry was trying to do when he traded for Rocket Ismail. Jerry invisioned Irvin on one side, dominating coverage, forcing single coverage against Rocket. With Ismail's speed, that offense could have been truely imposing. Unfortunatly, as we all know, Irvin went down, Rocket was forced into being the primary WR and the vision of Irvin and Ismail, on the same field was never realized. The difference between this situation and that is that we are a young team starting to come into our own and that was an old team on it's last downs, talent wise. I would also say that Smith is probably a better WR then Ismail was but that's another discussion. Essentially, the risk/reward scenario for a trade such as this is much better then in the late 90s, IMO. TO could go down but we are much better suited to deal with that injury if we have another quality WR like say a Steve Smith on the team. Back then, we were gambling everything on Ismail and the injury situation with Irvin and Aikman kinda forced us into a bad situation. Rocket did enjoy the best year of his career in 99, which gave fuel to the trade for Galloway the next season but unfortunatly, Rocket was injured in 2000, his production way down and Glenn, well, we traded hugh picks that really could have helped this team only to lose him for the season in the 1st game. The 2001 season, both Rocket and Ismail were healthy but we lost Troy so we never really enjoyed the opportunity to see how that whole scenario could have turned out.

This, to me, is different. I don't know what it would take to get a guy like Smith but I would have to consider a trade like this very seriously. This, to me, is one of those opportunites that you have to go out and take by the throat if you are serious about winning a championship. Obviously, we can't trade at any cost but we can trade some very valuable picks and a decent package of players for this consideration. To me, this is the missing piece. It's the right time in the maturation process of the team and it is a move that could be the difference between winning a champoinship and losing one. If we had a player like Smith last year, we would have beaten NY. No way NY sends the Blitz against us like they did the entire second half and covers a guy like Smith. We would have scored and scored often on that defense if we would have had Smith. Either that, or we would have continued to pound the ball with Barber and run the clock out while still scoring points. Slow death, if you will. I just can not emphysis how important speed opposit TO is. I know that lots of people like Crayton and I do too. He is a good player and will get better but he is not the speed that can make defenses play honest against us. If he were, none of the teams we played, down the stretch, would have played us as they did. We need a speed guy for our offense and Smith is that kind of player.

Trade may never happen but this is the kind of thing we definatly need to add if we want to be a dominating team IMO.
 

jobberone

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ABQCOWBOY;2176249 said:
I don't know if this trade will ever happen but IMO, you have to look at risk reward here. It's interesting because this is exactly what Jerry was trying to do when he traded for Rocket Ismail. Jerry invisioned Irvin on one side, dominating coverage, forcing single coverage against Rocket. With Ismail's speed, that offense could have been truely imposing. Unfortunatly, as we all know, Irvin went down, Rocket was forced into being the primary WR and the vision of Irvin and Ismail, on the same field was never realized. The difference between this situation and that is that we are a young team starting to come into our own and that was an old team on it's last downs, talent wise. I would also say that Smith is probably a better WR then Ismail was but that's another discussion. Essentially, the risk/reward scenario for a trade such as this is much better then in the late 90s, IMO. TO could go down but we are much better suited to deal with that injury if we have another quality WR like say a Steve Smith on the team. Back then, we were gambling everything on Ismail and the injury situation with Irvin and Aikman kinda forced us into a bad situation. Rocket did enjoy the best year of his career in 99, which gave fuel to the trade for Galloway the next season but unfortunatly, Rocket was injured in 2000, his production way down and Glenn, well, we traded hugh picks that really could have helped this team only to lose him for the season in the 1st game. The 2001 season, both Rocket and Ismail were healthy but we lost Troy so we never really enjoyed the opportunity to see how that whole scenario could have turned out.

This, to me, is different. I don't know what it would take to get a guy like Smith but I would have to consider a trade like this very seriously. This, to me, is one of those opportunites that you have to go out and take by the throat if you are serious about winning a championship. Obviously, we can't trade at any cost but we can trade some very valuable picks and a decent package of players for this consideration. To me, this is the missing piece. It's the right time in the maturation process of the team and it is a move that could be the difference between winning a champoinship and losing one. If we had a player like Smith last year, we would have beaten NY. No way NY sends the Blitz against us like they did the entire second half and covers a guy like Smith. We would have scored and scored often on that defense if we would have had Smith. Either that, or we would have continued to pound the ball with Barber and run the clock out while still scoring points. Slow death, if you will. I just can not emphysis how important speed opposit TO is. I know that lots of people like Crayton and I do too. He is a good player and will get better but he is not the speed that can make defenses play honest against us. If he were, none of the teams we played, down the stretch, would have played us as they did. We need a speed guy for our offense and Smith is that kind of player.

Trade may never happen but this is the kind of thing we definatly need to add if we want to be a dominating team IMO.

This is a good post. You're right. We would be a better team with someone like Rocket opposite TO. One reason why I consider Crayton a 3 and not a 2. But you're always looking for that speedster.

I don't see why anyone thinks Smith is going to be traded.
 

dueyhemlock

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iceberg;2176220 said:
so, why would jones sign crayton to a long term contract and trade him a year later? is that not the defination of ADD? always chasing what you "don't" have? and if we didn't "have it" why pay crayton "for it"?

it's more than just trading chips around and paying prices. $5mil is nothing to sneeze at and you just say "pay it" as if that's the ticket and all will be good. sure TO may be hurt. or steve smith may get hurt and we look even more fooling for our overpaying.

in the end it *does* seem people have this crazy trade scenario for just about anything and yes, reality does get put away so you can live in this "fantasy world" that madden has fostered.

i can't play halo so no comment. :)


I thought the signing of Crayton at that time was a matter of not letting him hit free agency (affecting his price). Lack of vets on our roster. TO only having a year left on his contract.

In Jerry's mind, the thought process was probably also to add another weapon WR to the team, hence all the trade rumors.

Crayton is a weapon, but if you can upgrade your weapons, you do so.

Something like: battle rifle to rocket launcher............Halo lingo :D
 

dueyhemlock

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ABQCOWBOY;2176249 said:
I don't know if this trade will ever happen but IMO, you have to look at risk reward here. It's interesting because this is exactly what Jerry was trying to do when he traded for Rocket Ismail. Jerry invisioned Irvin on one side, dominating coverage, forcing single coverage against Rocket. With Ismail's speed, that offense could have been truely imposing. Unfortunatly, as we all know, Irvin went down, Rocket was forced into being the primary WR and the vision of Irvin and Ismail, on the same field was never realized. The difference between this situation and that is that we are a young team starting to come into our own and that was an old team on it's last downs, talent wise. I would also say that Smith is probably a better WR then Ismail was but that's another discussion. Essentially, the risk/reward scenario for a trade such as this is much better then in the late 90s, IMO. TO could go down but we are much better suited to deal with that injury if we have another quality WR like say a Steve Smith on the team. Back then, we were gambling everything on Ismail and the injury situation with Irvin and Aikman kinda forced us into a bad situation. Rocket did enjoy the best year of his career in 99, which gave fuel to the trade for Galloway the next season but unfortunatly, Rocket was injured in 2000, his production way down and Glenn, well, we traded hugh picks that really could have helped this team only to lose him for the season in the 1st game. The 2001 season, both Rocket and Ismail were healthy but we lost Troy so we never really enjoyed the opportunity to see how that whole scenario could have turned out.

This, to me, is different. I don't know what it would take to get a guy like Smith but I would have to consider a trade like this very seriously. This, to me, is one of those opportunites that you have to go out and take by the throat if you are serious about winning a championship. Obviously, we can't trade at any cost but we can trade some very valuable picks and a decent package of players for this consideration. To me, this is the missing piece. It's the right time in the maturation process of the team and it is a move that could be the difference between winning a champoinship and losing one. If we had a player like Smith last year, we would have beaten NY. No way NY sends the Blitz against us like they did the entire second half and covers a guy like Smith. We would have scored and scored often on that defense if we would have had Smith. Either that, or we would have continued to pound the ball with Barber and run the clock out while still scoring points. Slow death, if you will. I just can not emphysis how important speed opposit TO is. I know that lots of people like Crayton and I do too. He is a good player and will get better but he is not the speed that can make defenses play honest against us. If he were, none of the teams we played, down the stretch, would have played us as they did. We need a speed guy for our offense and Smith is that kind of player.

Trade may never happen but this is the kind of thing we definatly need to add if we want to be a dominating team IMO.


Said perfectly,

Go get that missing piece and put us over the top.

They won't move him, I see Roy Williams being traded before Smith and we know how that is turning out so far. :mad:
 

dueyhemlock

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dfense;2176294 said:
Who comes up with this *&%# ?


Come on dfense, bring it. Pick it apart. It's a slow day.

Freakin Saturday is going to take forever to get here.
 

TNCowboy

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I'd rather take my chances with Crayton and all my draft picks than sell the house for a guy who may be only one more violent episode from a major suspension. Or jail.
 

iceberg

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dueyhemlock;2176287 said:
I thought the signing of Crayton at that time was a matter of not letting him hit free agency (affecting his price). Lack of vets on our roster. TO only having a year left on his contract.

In Jerry's mind, the thought process was probably also to add another weapon WR to the team, hence all the trade rumors.

Crayton is a weapon, but if you can upgrade your weapons, you do so.

Something like: battle rifle to rocket launcher............Halo lingo :D

i agree if you can upgrade you do so, but you can't just put everyone on the table because it's more than just player for player.

people rag on crayton (not you per se) and wanna trade him cause he dropped a pass. put in some stupid statements and crayton made the "player we must trade" list. he got rewarded for good performance and suddenly, he's trade bait.

i do agree we need another weapon at WR but we're not gonna trade someone we just signed. i wouldn't think so anyway. so while we need to upgrade (no argument) we can't just fling bodies around till they hit the floor...


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

sorry, drowing pool getting out.

the trade has to make sense on a lot of levels and salary cap ramifications should be considered and i see so few people do that.

fyi - i can't play halo or any game like it. i get motion sickness at the way the screen moves. was disappointed in bad company in that light. : )
 

iceberg

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dueyhemlock;2176300 said:
Said perfectly,

Go get that missing piece and put us over the top.

They won't move him, I see Roy Williams being traded before Smith and we know how that is turning out so far. :mad:

now understand i never said we shouldn't trade for smith. or det. roy williams. we should.

i just don't think crayton will make the list just cause fans are mad at him. his salary cap prevents that.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Double Trouble;2176384 said:
I'd rather take my chances with Crayton and all my draft picks than sell the house for a guy who may be only one more violent episode from a major suspension. Or jail.

I have not heard that Smith is in dutch with the league office, which is the only way I could see him being suspended for a significant amount of time. Could be the case, I don't know, but I was under the impression that the suspensions were team induced.

Of course, the other thing that you have to consider in these kinds of situations is the fact that the bust rate of WRs in the NFL. It is one of the highest risk positions drafted. We will not be picking high, anytime soon IMO. The chances of us picking a WR lower increase the likelyhood of us busting on the pick. There is a certain logic to taking a WR who has already proven they can play at a high level in the NFL. JMO.
 

BourbonBalz

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dueyhemlock;2175992 said:
I didn't say any thing about our "1st 3 round of our next draft". Read my post!

Giving them a vet (Patrick) and a speed WR prospect doesn't hurt us that much. We have young WRs that might be cut, hence the 2 players involved. I'm not doing a madden here. I know that we'll have to add something (draft) to the 2 WRs in my original trade scenario.

I see my wording placement might be off in the thread, but the content is still pretty clear.

A proven #1 / #2 WR to team up with TO.

Thats how it was supposed to be written, my bad but still nothing close to what you are posting (MADDEN ?????). :D


I just reread my original post and the wording is correct, don't know how the above Quote got missed up.??

Yes you did. You said we should up the ante and give them our 2009 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks, along with Crayton and Henry. I posted that trade would border on idiocy.
 

BourbonBalz

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sonnyboy;2176013 said:
You people who think this:
2009 1st, 2009 2nd, 2009 3rd, WR Crayton and CB Henry.
is to much in a trade for S. Smith are missing the boat on the contract
25.65mil over the next 5 years.
With cap hits of 1.75mil 2008, 3.40mil 2009, 5.75mil 2010, 7.00mil 2011, 7.75mil 2012.

This is a fair trade based on real value. You have to understand our 1st, 2nd and 3rd rd picks in 2009 are valued as 32, 64 and 96.
If we or Carolina wanted to use those picks in a package to trade up in the 2009 draft, we wouldn't get higher than 12.

You guys are overvaluing the picks and players and undervaluing having Steve Smith's services for 5 years at 25.65mil.

Steve Smith is a top 5 ProBowl WR. He is right their with Moss, Owens and Johnson. But unlike Moss and Owens he has 5 good years left.

If you want to understand how valuable Smith's deal is, just compare to Owens' contract. 2008 $5,728,388, 2009 $8,995,000, 2010 $10,725,000, 2011 $10,225,000

We are paying Owens over 35 mil the next 4 years. Smith's price tag for the same 4 years would be, 17.9 mil.

No, you don't understand. We've been down this road before when we made a trade for a certain Ohio St. WR and it blew up in our face. First off, you don't get rid of TWO starters and the first 3 picks of our next year's draft for ANY receiver at this point, especially one that is injury-prone and might not be a good locker room presence. You are just mortgaging the future of the team. You can't just look at where we will be drafting, you have to consider we would be giving up 5 players. Secondly, I've already addressed the contract issue. Smith will want a new contract within a couple of years and one or two things will happen. His team will refuse and he'll holdout and become disgruntled or the team will give him much more $. Both are losing propositions. No thanks. If we could get him for a reasonable trade, yes. Not one like you're suggesting.
 

JonJon

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iceberg;2176401 said:
now understand i never said we shouldn't trade for smith. or det. roy williams. we should.

i just don't think crayton will make the list just cause fans are mad at him. his salary cap prevents that.

The thing is, we would have to give them somebody. They wouldn't do a trade without a WR being in there somewhere. We sure ain't giving up Owens and the Panthers would laugh in our collective faces if we offered Austin or Hurd. The only logical conclusion to this trade scenario is to include Crayton. But I do see your point about the cap hit. That makes a trade of any kind less logical.
 

iceberg

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jdub2k4;2176430 said:
The thing is, we would have to give them somebody. They wouldn't do a trade without a WR being in there somewhere. We sure ain't giving up Owens and the Panthers would laugh in our collective faces if we offered Austin or Hurd. The only logical conclusion to this trade scenario is to include Crayton. But I do see your point about the cap hit. That makes a trade of any kind less logical.

why would we have to give them a wr? you've failed the negotiating class, jdub! : )

we think it may make sense. and it may. but there are other ways to get there if you talk and work it out. crayton is an obvious choice because he's a WR and people are mad at him still

beyond that no. i don't see him as an obvious choice to give up.
 

Dallas22

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Now that the Panthers are frustrated with Steve Smith and his antics AGAIN, do you think that they might consider a trade? Does his great talent overweigh his control and anger issues???

Wouldn't it be great to have the Cowboys go and aquire Smith with a couple of draft picks (and maybe another player like Roy Williams #38). Maybe give up a 2nd & 4th along with Roy? Now that would be a HUGE upgrade from Glenn AND would probably make the Cowboys Super Bowl favorites this season. Just a guess/suggestion/thought... wondering what you all thought that the chances are for that to happen???

Beat Denver but MOST improtantly NO INJURIES... GO COWBOYS!!!
 

SkinsSuck09

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Sounds good but I think you meant.......Beat Commanders and most importantly NO INJURIES!! Giants and Eagles also fit well into that sentence, it is up to you. ha ha
 
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