Stopping the New Romo Myth

Super_Kazuya

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So per your hot take, Aikman was overrated too. Talk about trolling.

Maybe he was? I don't worship at the feet of quarterback gods like you and your kind. Football will always be the ultimate team sport. One football luddites like you who believe in all of this "QB gods who carry teams on their back" finally die off, the world will be a better place.
 

Super_Kazuya

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More comical is that there are people who are so rabid to defend Romo they even go so far as to downgrade Hall of Fame QBs with rings on their fingers.

I guess it is too much to just accept Romo for what he has been and can be if the rest of his career is handled like it was last season.

Another dull-witted "rings" argument. The self-embarrassment just don't stop.
 

ufcrules1

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More comical is that there are people who are so rabid to defend Romo they even go so far as to downgrade Hall of Fame QBs with rings on their fingers.

I guess it is too much to just accept Romo for what he has been and can be if the rest of his career is handled like it was last season.

Good post. There are fanatical Romo bashers and then there are fanatical Romo lovers. It's best to be in the middle of the 2...which is accepting Romo for who he is. He isn't elite and he isn't just good. He is very good... but does need a ton of help around him to go anywhere.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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Good post. There are fanatical Romo bashers and then there are fanatical Romo lovers. It's best to be in the middle of the 2...which is accepting Romo for who he is. He isn't elite and he isn't just good. He is very good... but does need a ton of help around him to go anywhere.

"A ton" of help is inaccurate.

He does a lot of good. He needs "some help" to avoid the Favre moments.
 

Idgit

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How are we somehow debating Romo's relative worth again? Romo gives us half of the pass differential equation. Teams with both halves win more games. We need to be working on the other half of the problem, and we are, because the organization knows what it's doing.

The accumulation of good decisions is working, just like the odds suggest it should.
 

ufcrules1

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"A ton" of help is inaccurate.

He does a lot of good. He needs "some help" to avoid the Favre moments.

I have seen plenty of Favre type moments when he had "some" help. Right now he has a ton of support around him. No excuses anymore.
 

ufcrules1

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How are we somehow debating Romo's relative worth again? Romo gives us half of the pass differential equation. Teams with both halves win more games. We need to be working on the other half of the problem, and we are, because the organization knows what it's doing.

The accumulation of good decisions is working, just like the odds suggest it should.

Yes, the organization is starting to make good decisions after 18+ years of bad ones. I'm glad they are finally catching on. That makes me very happy as a fan.
 

percyhoward

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So much for context.
Context matters. Your point is that Romo is less effective than the league's "elite" QB after a certain number of attempts, which isn't true. I know this because I figured the passer ratings after 30 attempts in a game for each player's last five full seasons.

I didn't leave out any full seasons, as you did with Manning's 2009 (82.0) and Brady's 2013 (78.9). I didn't count Romo's 1/3 of a season in 2010 as a full season, as you did. Just took the same number of complete seasons for each player, and then did the legwork of actually figuring their passer ratings after 30+ attempts for the combined five seasons. Anybody who wants to see the raw numbers can check the link below. There's also some good info about what factors have influenced Rodgers' rating, and the number of times Romo has entered the 4th quarter trailing as opposed to leading by more than one score, and how that affects his rating.

More aggressive offense next year
 
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Idgit

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Yes, the organization is starting to make good decisions after 18+ years of bad ones. I'm glad they are finally catching on. That makes me very happy as a fan.

Don't agree with your blanket dismissal of 18+ years, but glad you're happy.

They've been on this path since 2010, fwtw. It is nice that many fans have started to finally notice. It's been rough being in a small minority and feeling like I'm taking crazy pills.

Fix the defense, and we'll have a shot the next few seasons. That's been the case for years now.
 

Alexander

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Fix the defense, and we'll have a shot the next few seasons. That's been the case for years now.

The defense has to get upgraded, but we still need to stick with what worked last season. It is not a coincidence he had perhaps his most well rounded and efficient season ever.

He needs that relief where he does not feel compelled to be the reason the team wins or loses. The defense has a part, the support structure of the offense does as well.
 

ufcrules1

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Don't agree with your blanket dismissal of 18+ years, but glad you're happy.

They've been on this path since 2010, fwtw. It is nice that many fans have started to finally notice. It's been rough being in a small minority and feeling like I'm taking crazy pills.

Fix the defense, and we'll have a shot the next few seasons. That's been the case for years now.

Thanks for the laughs. I needed that this morning.
 

AsthmaField

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The defense has to get upgraded, but we still need to stick with what worked last season. It is not a coincidence he had perhaps his most well rounded and efficient season ever.

The offense was so difficult to defend last year because of the balance it had. More precisely, the offense put defenses in the catch-22 of them coming up to play the run and Romo throwing over the top of them, or them backing off to stop Romo and Murray running through the big gaps that creates.

The Cowboys looked at that and decided that the difficult portion of that equation is finding a passing game that can back defenses off enough to allow the very good OL to do what it needs to in order to open up running lanes. Not to find a RB who can run through the gaps created by the strain of having to defend both.

One need look no further than the Arizona game last year to find evidence of the synergy created by putting a strain on a defense with a very good passing game coupled with a very good running game. Or should I say the lack of synergy in that game.

Arizona had correctly deduced that with Romo out, they could bring up whatever they needed to in order to stop Murray and the run game. They filled the box with bodies and sent run blitzes all day. Weeden was incapable of making the Cardinals defense pay for that, and so the day was lost for the Cowboys.

The running game simply wasn't effective at all. That great OL and Murray were stymied the whole game. Murray didn't magically get the yards or fall forward enough to put the team in short yardage situations that they could easily convert. There simply was no running room.

The defense wasn't caught in a situation where it had to guess what was coming. They couldn't really be burned for selling out to stop the run. It was an easy day for the Arizona defensive coaches.

The following week, Romo was back and so then, was the running game.

The coaches had a commitment to the run game and an OL to pull it off. That added to the passing game that Romo and the receivers have always provided, made the Dallas defense all but impossible to defend.

Just look at the losses from last year:

SF - Romo just wasn't right for the SF game to open the season. His back and the recovery from that surgery had him off kilter in game 1. I don't think SF wins that game without the turnovers provided to them.

Was - Romo got hurt midway through that game. Would Dallas have won if he didn't get hurt? Probably. They almost won even with the injury. Romo shouldn't have come back in as he just wasn't himself.

Arizona - I have already addressed this loss above.

Philly - The whole team seemed off with almost no rest or time to game plan for the Eagles. Romo did seem off but I think this is likely a game Dallas loses no matter how you play it. They just weren't right that day. It happens.

So, of the 4 losses last year, three of them were because Romo either wasn't right physically, or he didn't play at all.

In all but one game last year, the catch-22 that defenses were put in (or not put in) had a huge impact on the outcome.

What I'm getting at here is that it wasn't Murray that put defenses in that no-win situation. It was Romo and the passing game that forced teams to drop back to defend the pass. When defensive coordinators did that (and they had to in order to have a chance), then the OL and Murray would make them pay.

The Dallas coaches know it was the running game making defenses pay for stopping Tony that made the offense so difficult to defend. They aren't about to not do the same thing this year too. They saw the opportunities Murray had last year because of the potent passing game, and they understand that as long as Romo and the receivers are creating the problems they do down the field, defenses will have to stop it. When they do, the running game will find room to run and there then, will be the catch-22 that we all loves so much last year.

The coaches understand that what Murray did last year was, in large part, a function of the position he was put in by the passing game and the very good OL. They correctly (IMO) decided that what Murray gave them wasn't worth $8M per year and that the running backs they have can do an awful lot of what Murray did last year.

I think they realized that Romo and the passing game is what they can't lose. That with that functioning at a high level, along with their OL, will allow many RB's to play at a high level.

So, that is my long winded way of saying that, going forward, I don't think you have to worry about the team forgetting about the run game. They saw it just like we did, and they know, just like we do that it was almost impossible to stop.
 

coult44

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LOL.........that is garbage. Romo has had incredible years most of his career with little around him and poor coaching. We lost the GB game because our defense got toasted in the 2nd half. Romo actually won the game with a perfectly thrown TD pass to Dez. Everyone and the opposing CB said it was a catch. The refs screwed the call. So now its Romo's fault we lost the game because the refs blew the call?

The Romo haters have no dignity when it comes to blaming losses on Romo. LOL

It was always hilarious to listen to, but its borderline sad now. I almost pity the Romo bashers like you. You arent able to enjoy how good he really is.

You know what bothers me as much as the people who won't give Romo the respect he has earned and deserves? The people who think you should lick the ground he walks on.

Why can't you, and the people who take your approach, have a better balance? How? Give him all the props for the player he is, how he has carried this franchise, and how he proven to be a very good QB in the NFL. But, at the same time not go off the deep end for people pointing out his mistakes, talking about his weaknesses, and comparing him to other QBs who never won anything in their careers. Don't defend Tony by trying to belittle QBs as great as Elway. You can't say Tony is the only reason we have been competitive on one hand , and then then turn a blind eye to the mistakes he has made on the other.... It makes your take WEAK, and completely one sided.

Finally, Tony made a perfect pass to Dez in the GB game. It could have been considered one of the best plays of all time. But it won't, and we have to live with that. At the same time. You have to admit, (if you know football), that with that much time left, and it being 4th down, the most important thing to do is move the chains. You must have better judgement, and make a higher percentage throw.

My whole point, Balance is the key to any good opinion.
 

Alexander

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So, that is my long winded way of saying that, going forward, I don't think you have to worry about the team forgetting about the run game. They saw it just like we did, and they know, just like we do that it was almost impossible to stop.
Forget the running game? I doubt that.

Now panic and abandon if it does not work out very well? Absolutely, especially with unreliable RBs we have on the roster.
 

jnday

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Yes, they were really getting "Romo Friendly" with people like Phil Costa starting on the OL.

Romo has had no more done for him than any other QB when you look at it. But despite that, the team has always been expected to go as he does.

What he has not had is the benefit of taking the pressure off of him to be perfect, until last season.

I just do not understand how anyone cannot see he was a more comfortable and efficient QB with that kind of philosophy than he was in previous seasons.

I agree with your post except that Jerry has used the term "Romo friendly " countless times. The Romo friendly moves may not have worked, but any poster on this board that denies that the team has used the term on a regular basis , is kidding themselves.
 

Idgit

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The defense has to get upgraded, but we still need to stick with what worked last season. It is not a coincidence he had perhaps his most well rounded and efficient season ever.

He needs that relief where he does not feel compelled to be the reason the team wins or loses. The defense has a part, the support structure of the offense does as well.

The defense has been a loadstone around this team's neck, and it' the primary reason we haven't had success the three seasons prior to last year. That's hardly debatable.

And Romo definitely benefitted when they eliminated inefficient passing situations in favor of the running game. The running game was generally very effective for us last year, but even more importantly, it absorbed some of those inadvisable passing plays. And I say that emphasizing the fact that, even with the higher passing rate, Romo was still among the better QBs in the game. With hem removed, he's one of the 3-4 best players at his position.

But it was the running rate and not the running effectiveness that mattered most. With the OL we've got, we're going to do a decent job blocking for rushing plays again this season. We might not have a Murray-caliber player in the backfield, but there's no reason to expect the mix of rush v. passing plays to change dramatically.
 

Yakuza Rich

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Context matters. Your point is that Romo is less effective than the league's "elite" QB after a certain number of attempts, which isn't true. I

That is a lie.

I never mentioned that he was less effective than the league's elite QB's in this thread.

YOU are putting those words in my mouth to try to create a point.

I have stated that I don't care about the other QB's because it doesn't matter since we are talking about Romo and trying to play to Romo's strengths.

And even if we want to use your argument, it is still patently false.

Romo has had the 3 worst seasons of any of the QB's you mentioned when it comes to throwing 31+ passes. So he HAS been less effective than those QB's.

It would be like saying that if I had a QB that had a 120 QB rating before 30 attempts and was at 100 QB rating at 31+ attempts, that QB is 'less effective' than the QB that starts with a 100 QB rating prior to 31 attempts and then is at 85 QB rating after 31 attempts because the 2nd QB had a smaller drop-off rate.

And you never mentioned Rodgers, widely considered arguably the top QB in the league that has a *higher* QB rating once he gets to 31+ attempts. And not using Romo's 2010 season is another example of cherry picking. I could see if he got injured and came back and was fighting injuries. But, he was perfectly healthy until the Giants game and when he threw the ball more that season, his QB rating plummeted.


But again...I don't care about other QB's since that doesn't have to do with Romo. It's just your entire argument is invalid.






YR
 

Toruk_Makto

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The point is not (or at least shouldn't have been) that Romo was not "good". The logical argument was that asking him, or most QBs to sling the ball 50 times a game was not conducive to winning, as the law of averages means that one error could be backbreaking. That alone has developed the perception that he's not clutch.

Aikman was a better QB with a running game. Romo is better with a dependable and efficient running game when he does not have to win the game himself, or better yet, feels he has to, which makes him feel compelled to take the game on his shoulders.

It has never been that he's some horrible QB that cannot win games. Having the support of a balanced offense just helps him mentally handle the game and the pressure better. He is less likely to force throws thinking he has to make the play.

Our single greatest play is a Romo drop back to throw the ball. Not going to get worked up over him doing so.

Romo is a risk to drop back but handing it to Murray who fumbled away two games including a playoff contest is the safer option?

I reject this false premise.
 
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