Sturm talks interior line and draft

Risen Star

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This is where you lose the reasonable fans. It's your agenda. You spin it constantly until all people hear is noise or they are mildly amused and/or mildly annoyed with it.

I haven't lost a single rational minded fan of this team.

It's not one of the worst run clubs in the NFL. We've won three SBs in the last 22 years. Not many teams can say that. And yes we all know the team is .500 in the last 15+ or whatever it is.

And this is why you don't fall into that category of rational minded fans. We won three Super Bowls run entirely different than how we are ran today. Nothing about that structure resembles how the Cowboys operate in 2014.

Listen to this. .500 is average. It means we are average. That's not the worst team in the league. Now if you say we haven't reached the playoffs and made a splash in two decades then I'm with you. If you say that is unacceptable then I'm with you. If you say we can't seem to crawl out of a hole we created ourselves then I'm with you. It's the constant hyperbole and negativity that is the problem. Average teams do things about equally well as poorly. They have bright spots and sore spots.

We've been .500 because Bill Parcells arrived here and rebuilt the team for Jerry. Who had it as a 5-11 laughing stock before he arrived. Since Bill has left, Jerry has been destroying that core. The .500 record doesn't reflect how poorly the team is run today.
 

Idgit

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you could sell tickets to the world you live in- they must sing Kumbaya and hold hands every morning and the sun is always shining and never too hot or too cold. Not that it has any relation to reality.

And you don't spend $60M on OGs, or claim to draft them #1 overall and people take you seriously, and you sign and draft CBs when you lose one to injury and one in free agency. It's a nice place, burm, you should consider visiting it sometime.

Again, though, I'll point out that I think this team loses games it should not because its pass defense is not good enough and not because of some imaginary problem with backup interior offensive linemen. Care to tackle explaining to me how that's particularly optimistic again? Or shall we just sweep it under the rug and go back to pretending the problems are elsewhere? I"m happy to do either.
 

jnday

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And you don't spend $60M on OGs, or claim to draft them #1 overall and people take you seriously, and you sign and draft CBs when you lose one to injury and one in free agency. It's a nice place, burm, you should consider visiting it sometime.

Again, though, I'll point out that I think this team loses games it should not because its pass defense is not good enough and not because of some imaginary problem with backup interior offensive linemen. Care to tackle explaining to me how that's particularly optimistic again? Or shall we just sweep it under the rug and go back to pretending the problems are elsewhere? I"m happy to do either.

Please explain what would be your plan to fix the pass defense. I agree that it is a problem.
 

Idgit

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Please explain what would be your plan to fix the pass defense. I agree that it is a problem.

We needed the 3-tech, to begin with. We've created another hole at DE and need to add at least another two pressure players to the DL. One of which should have been added in the second round last year or acquired in the third via a trade down. We need another option at WIL who's capable of replacing Carter if he can't learn to cover wheel routes from RBs out of the backfield. We need to bring in a cover safety with both the range to get into position, who doesn't take the wrong first step, and who's actually capable of making a play when he gets where he needs to be. We need a 4th CB capable of playing press/man so that we're not reduced to playing zone defense with zero pressure again if Caliborne or Carr or Scandrick get hurt. Carr needs to learn how to cover on trailing routes across the field or he's going to continue to get exploited there.

There's so much work to be done on defense this season, it's not even funny. But the S problem has existed for four years now, and we're just ignoring it. Demarcus Ware was a great player for a long, long time, but he was badly hobbled last year and unable to contribute when we needed him the second half of the year. Hatcher wore down. We lost the first two MLB options we had and were reduced to fielding players who could not cover. Heath was rangy and in position but could not make a play to save his life. Wilcox was rangy and looks to me like he's going to develop into a player eventually, but he wasn't where he was supposed to be too often. We had a lot of holes on defense, and what we saw most of last year was not what we wanted or expected to run when we made the move back to the 4-3.
 

jobberone

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"marginal starter at best"-you have a convenient memory- like forgetting just how horrendous Costa was. No one else was ever fooled and embarrassed like he was in that first Skins game.

No he was never as horrendous as you and many others said. He grew to be marginal. And you are always looking to upgrade marginal. In fact many players on a team can be upgraded. Or replaced hoping it's an upgrade.
 

jobberone

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I haven't lost a single rational minded fan of this team.



And this is why you don't fall into that category of rational minded fans. We won three Super Bowls run entirely different than how we are ran today. Nothing about that structure resembles how the Cowboys operate in 2014.



We've been .500 because Bill Parcells arrived here and rebuilt the team for Jerry. Who had it as a 5-11 laughing stock before he arrived. Since Bill has left, Jerry has been destroying that core. The .500 record doesn't reflect how poorly the team is run today.

First of all you have a bunch of sycophants and followers as well as a posse. You appear to be the leader of the band. I'm glad that blows your dress up. It's empty AFAIC.

Everyone ran on a different system than we do now when we won last. And the structure of most teams changed as it has had to evolve. We just haven't changed the one thing that appears to drive a lot of your agenda and that's Jerry Jones. Most of us don't obsess over that because he's not stepping down and complaining about it incessantly only looks foolish. I'm on record as saying you can't run a large corporation the way Jerry runs his. There's too much inbreeding/family and not enough outside influence that's lasting or of the right substance. Jerry needs to do what he does best. See even I know all that as does almost every fan on this site and in the Cowboys' great nation of .....fandom. Only you seem to need a crusade to justify your claim to fame.

I believe it was Parcells who said you are what you are since you bring him up. We've been a 500 team BP (before Parcells) and AP. Parcells did leave an influence that I still see and that's in scouting and some in Jerry. I see a difference its just not enough. And Jerry is a large part of the problem. But this all started with 'this is the worst run club in the NFL' evidence to the contrary. You're entitled to your opinion but you just happen to be factually incorrect on that subject. Perhaps you mean of all the average clubs this one is the worst average club.

As long as you continue to claim this club is the worst at this and that you'll appear foolish. It's not the worst of much. The problem is its not the best of anything.
 

jnday

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First of all you have a bunch of sycophants and followers as well as a posse. You appear to be the leader of the band. I'm glad that blows your dress up. It's empty AFAIC.

Everyone ran on a different system than we do now when we won last. And the structure of most teams changed as it has had to evolve. We just haven't changed the one thing that appears to drive a lot of your agenda and that's Jerry Jones. Most of us don't obsess over that because he's not stepping down and complaining about it incessantly only looks foolish. I'm on record as saying you can't run a large corporation the way Jerry runs his. There's too much inbreeding/family and not enough outside influence that's lasting or of the right substance. Jerry needs to do what he does best. See even I know all that as does almost every fan on this site and in the Cowboys' great nation of .....fandom. Only you seem to need a crusade to justify your claim to fame.

I believe it was Parcells who said you are what you are since you bring him up. We've been a 500 team BP (before Parcells) and AP. Parcells did leave an influence that I still see and that's in scouting and some in Jerry. I see a difference its just not enough. And Jerry is a large part of the problem. But this all started with 'this is the worst run club in the NFL' evidence to the contrary. You're entitled to your opinion but you just happen to be factually incorrect on that subject. Perhaps you mean of all the average clubs this one is the worst average club.

As long as you continue to claim this club is the worst at this and that you'll appear foolish. It's not the worst of much. The problem is its not the best of anything.

This is starting to sound like your grapes. Risen has more people that agree with him than you and it really seems to worry you. You have a couple posters that rush to defend your opinions as well, but I guess they are not a posse. Little bit of a double standard. Back to the topic, Risen has a good point. Considering the resources spent , it would be hard to find a organization that has consistently failed to meet expectations as much as the Cowboys. The investment and returns have to be considered.
 

jnday

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We needed the 3-tech, to begin with. We've created another hole at DE and need to add at least another two pressure players to the DL. One of which should have been added in the second round last year or acquired in the third via a trade down. We need another option at WIL who's capable of replacing Carter if he can't learn to cover wheel routes from RBs out of the backfield. We need to bring in a cover safety with both the range to get into position, who doesn't take the wrong first step, and who's actually capable of making a play when he gets where he needs to be. We need a 4th CB capable of playing press/man so that we're not reduced to playing zone defense with zero pressure again if Caliborne or Carr or Scandrick get hurt. Carr needs to learn how to cover on trailing routes across the field or he's going to continue to get exploited there.

There's so much work to be done on defense this season, it's not even funny. But the S problem has existed for four years now, and we're just ignoring it. Demarcus Ware was a great player for a long, long time, but he was badly hobbled last year and unable to contribute when we needed him the second half of the year. Hatcher wore down. We lost the first two MLB options we had and were reduced to fielding players who could not cover. Heath was rangy and in position but could not make a play to save his life. Wilcox was rangy and looks to me like he's going to develop into a player eventually, but he wasn't where he was supposed to be too often. We had a lot of holes on defense, and what we saw most of last year was not what we wanted or expected to run when we made the move back to the 4-3.

I agree with most of your post. The defense needs a massive overhaul and it should have started before this offseason. Some positions , safety is one, has not been properly addressed in many years. The Dline should have been upgraded as well.
 

Idgit

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This is starting to sound like your grapes. Risen has more people that agree with him than you and it really seems to worry you. You have a couple posters that rush to defend your opinions as well, but I guess they are not a posse. Little bit of a double standard. Back to the topic, Risen has a good point. Considering the resources spent , it would be hard to find a organization that has consistently failed to meet expectations as much as the Cowboys. The investment and returns have to be considered.

Either way, we're talking about a handful of people. It's not a consensus of Cowboy fandom.

You can see the same old cast of characters liking everybody's respective posts. It's a function of how much regular posters click a button...not a validation of anybody's opinion. A lot of people eat McDonalds, and a lot of them (used to) watch American Idol. Popular opinion is no way to judge whether or not an opinion is accurate. Popular opinion of the Cowboys is what you'd expect after four seasons of not making the playoffs.

I do agree with the point about investments v. returns. We spend a lot of money, and we've not had a lot to show for it the last few years.
 

burmafrd

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No he was never as horrendous as you and many others said. He grew to be marginal. And you are always looking to upgrade marginal. In fact many players on a team can be upgraded. Or replaced hoping it's an upgrade.

wow you really think anyone will buy that who watched that Commander game?
 

burmafrd

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Either way, we're talking about a handful of people. It's not a consensus of Cowboy fandom.

You can see the same old cast of characters liking everybody's respective posts. It's a function of how much regular posters click a button...not a validation of anybody's opinion. A lot of people eat McDonalds, and a lot of them (used to) watch American Idol. Popular opinion is no way to judge whether or not an opinion is accurate. Popular opinion of the Cowboys is what you'd expect after four seasons of not making the playoffs.

I do agree with the point about investments v. returns. We spend a lot of money, and we've not had a lot to show for it the last few years.

love how you think you are different
 

visionary

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Either way, we're talking about a handful of people. It's not a consensus of Cowboy fandom.quote]


if you took a poll of "cowboy fandom" and asked them the question: should jerry jones the GM be fired? what percent do you htink would answer, yes

i would venture to suggest close to 90% and that is as close to a consensus as you can get

we are clearly not talking "a handful of people", we are talking almost every rational cowboy fan (you only have to excluse the jerry apologists and garrett groupies)
 

Idgit

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if you took a poll of "cowboy fandom" and asked them the question: should jerry jones the GM be fired? what percent do you htink would answer, yes

i would venture to suggest close to 90% and that is as close to a consensus as you can get

we are clearly not talking "a handful of people", we are talking almost every rational cowboy fan (you only have to excluse the jerry apologists and garrett groupies)

I'd agree with your 90% number. Or at least, it'd be a significant majority. I'd fire Jerry the GM, too, as would most of the Cowboys fans anywhere. That wasn't the question, though. We're talking about agreeing with Risen, who pretends to believe silly things just to get attention.
 

MichaelWinicki

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No he was never as horrendous as you and many others said. He grew to be marginal. And you are always looking to upgrade marginal. In fact many players on a team can be upgraded. Or replaced hoping it's an upgrade.

Costa was pretty bad for the first 6 games or so of the 2011 season. But he was injured throughout that stretch also.

I've wondered why Costa never received the benefit of the doubt for looking bad while injured but when Costa played at a healthy level in 2012 vs. Baltimore and gave Ngata a beat down all we hear is... "Ngata was injured".

I guess we can file that under "A" for Agenda.
 

burmafrd

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Costa was pretty bad for the first 6 games or so of the 2011 season. But he was injured throughout that stretch also.

I've wondered why Costa never received the benefit of the doubt for looking bad while injured but when Costa played at a healthy level in 2012 vs. Baltimore and gave Ngata a beat down all we hear is... "Ngata was injured".

I guess we can file that under "A" for Agenda.

says one of the Pollyanna's.

Costa was NOT injured during that Commander game- love how you guys keep coming up with more excuses for him.
 

MichaelWinicki

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says one of the Pollyanna's.

Costa was NOT injured during that Commander game- love how you guys keep coming up with more excuses for him.

Maybe you can share your incredible insight into what Costa supposedly did wrong during this now mythical Commander's game.

I'm sure you have some facts to support your position.
 
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