Sturm thinks there is more the story re: Tony's shoulder

[plymkr]

We don't know a lot. We have no xrays or other scans to see how it has healed. Is it anatomically correct or is there some rotation etc of the bone from the healing?

There is no reason why the bone is not healed by now unless there is a non-union. If it were then they would have already operated so we can rule this out.

That leaves doing something to prevent a further break which would only occur in an athlete in a contact sport. You and I would likely not be contemplating this.

My educated guess is they just want to reduce the risk of another break. The arm is suspended from a wishbone in the form of the collarbone and the scapula. The scapula floats which is why is takes a significant direct blow to break it. Think Roy on Emmitt and that is highly unusual as we generally think high impact car accidents etc to break the scapula.

The collar bone attaches to the sternum or breastplate. Impact on the end of the shoulder as in a fall onto the shoulder drives the wishbone into its attachment. Being a longitudinal bone the clavicle generally loses the battle and breaks from midshaft to distal shaft generally the latter.

If you remove part of the distal clavicle then you increase the zone of compressibility and move the clavicle further away from the direct transmission of the force. I didn't look at any data to see if there is a decreased incidence of recurrent injury following this procedure. I've never heard of it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. My guess is there is no great data as there are too many variables to arrive at good conclusions and too small a sample size. You'd have to have a curbside consult with someone like Andrews who has enough personal knowledge to give you an inclination albeit not a great answer.

The vascilation is just a symptom of the inability to move forward. Romo doesn't have enough good data to formulate a decent plan. That doesn't mean he won't do anything.

And there is no way to strengthen the shoulder here to decrease the likelihood of another break. If he falls on the shoulder hard enough in the right position it will break again as would yours or mine. It's simple physics.

And for the last time.....his back is at only a slightly greater risk than any other starting QB in the NFL.

Good post. I want to add to this. All we have heard is Tony is thinking about having PREVENTATIVE surgery to improve the chances of a non-injury season. We are not talking about surgery to fix the collar bone. All we know is the collar bone is healing, or has healed if enough time is past. The delay in the surgery could be due to 3 opposing views of the collar bone trying to decide what to do with it.

Doctor's point of view: Tony you don't need surgery on a healthy collar bone. I don't want to perform an unnecessary surgery on a patient. there's no sense in cutting into your skin and tissue for a healthy bone to try and make it more healthy.

Tony's POV: I don't want to get hurt again I'm going to listen to the doctor, agent, wife and team but I think I may want a plate put in to prevent surgery; or maybe this mumford thing I just heard about.

Team's POV: We desperately need you to play 16 games or we suck and our coach looks like a clapping raggedy andy doll on the sidelines. Be as aggressive as you can with this injury.

Romo is probably hearing it's best to get the plate, mumford surgery, or let it heal like last time. The last time he broke his collar bone he didn't have a problem for 5 seasons with it. Then he's also hearing all these ways to prevent it so some doctors could be saying let it heal and some doctors could be saying do 1 of the 2 surgeries and who knows what the team is saying.

And one more thing, I can't stand when the media or anyone says Tony Romo is one play away from ending his career. Every single player at every single position is one play away from losing their career or season. Injury prone or not injury prone, Every single NFL player is one awkward step, tackle, or block away from their career ending. Michael Irvin was not considered injury prone and got tackled awkwardly in Philly and never played another down, and he was one of the more durable players in the game. So the argument on whether or not we should draft a qb should not be due to injuries, cuz if that were the case then every team in the NFL should draft a qb. I feel the argument is about age, 36 year old franchise qb you should start planning for the future. But to say we have to draft a qb because Romo is one play away from losing his season/career is foolish. We should draft a qb to be prepared for our 36 year old qb to retire. We should not draft a qb out of fear that our qb is going to get hurt. I don't want Dallas to be making moves with the draft out of fear of injury. Career and season ending injuries can happen on every play with every player. that's the NFL IMO.

 

[DandyDon52]

Good post. I want to add to this. All we have heard is Tony is thinking about having PREVENTATIVE surgery to improve the chances of a non-injury season. We are not talking about surgery to fix the collar bone. All we know is the collar bone is healing, or has healed if enough time is past. The delay in the surgery could be due to 3 opposing views of the collar bone trying to decide what to do with it.

Doctor's point of view: Tony you don't need surgery on a healthy collar bone. I don't want to perform an unnecessary surgery on a patient. there's no sense in cutting into your skin and tissue for a healthy bone to try and make it more healthy.

Tony's POV: I don't want to get hurt again I'm going to listen to the doctor, agent, wife and team but I think I may want a plate put in to prevent surgery; or maybe this mumford thing I just heard about.

Team's POV: We desperately need you to play 16 games or we suck and our coach looks like a clapping raggedy andy doll on the sidelines. Be as aggressive as you can with this injury.

Romo is probably hearing it's best to get the plate, mumford surgery, or let it heal like last time. The last time he broke his collar bone he didn't have a problem for 5 seasons with it. Then he's also hearing all these ways to prevent it so some doctors could be saying let it heal and some doctors could be saying do 1 of the 2 surgeries and who knows what the team is saying.

And one more thing, I can't stand when the media or anyone says Tony Romo is one play away from ending his career. Every single player at every single position is one play away from losing their career or season. Injury prone or not injury prone, Every single NFL player is one awkward step, tackle, or block away from their career ending. Michael Irvin was not considered injury prone and got tackled awkwardly in Philly and never played another down, and he was one of the more durable players in the game. So the argument on whether or not we should draft a qb should not be due to injuries, cuz if that were the case then every team in the NFL should draft a qb. I feel the argument is about age, 36 year old franchise qb you should start planning for the future. But to say we have to draft a qb because Romo is one play away from losing his season/career is foolish. We should draft a qb to be prepared for our 36 year old qb to retire. We should not draft a qb out of fear that our qb is going to get hurt. I don't want Dallas to be making moves with the draft out of fear of injury. Career and season ending injuries can happen on every play with every player. that's the NFL IMO.

exactly, tony could make it all year or get hurt the first game, and so could any other player.
I do think a good RB and going back to being a run team would help keep tony healthy.

 

[jobberone]

This is a true test of this franchise's pathological optimism. It is just amazing that nobody else outside the organization believes Romo can finish the next four years.

Is there anyone here who really thinks Romo can play four more seasons within a reasonable human certainty?

IDK. That's outside the norm. Age 36, 37 and 38 is a decent risk. And part of that is because I don't see the clavicle like many do here. Nor the back.

 

[jobberone]

exactly, tony could make it all year or get hurt the first game, and so could any other player.
I do think a good RB and going back to being a run team would help keep tony healthy.

I think they need to relook at the empty backfield sets and reconsider the risks of injury to Romo vs the benefits. They can't just give it up but they can use it less.

They need to pass protect better esp knowing it's generally poor blitz pickups that creates the problems.

 

[jnday]

I can't understand how anybody can be surprised unless they actually believed Jerry's BS about Rimo playing another five years . That is the reason that so many fans want to draft a QB. The Romo days are coming to a close . It is reality but some people rather not believe it.

 

[jnday]

Romo's health is just not limited to his collarbone issues. His back is probably even more of a issue that will hamper him. It is time to make plans for the long term future that don't include Romo. I know reality is hard to accept for some of you, but Romo's health is not going to allow him to play much longer.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Or we bring in RG3 in let him do what Romo could not.

The same RG3 that got beat out by Captain Kirk?

HAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAA...............................CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!

 

[Risen Star]

Good luck breaking Carson Wentz' collarbone. Not happening.

 

[plymkr]

Is there anyone here who really thinks Romo can play four more seasons within a reasonable human certainty?

IDK. That's outside the norm. Age 36, 37 and 38 is a decent risk. And part of that is because I don't see the clavicle like many do here. Nor the back.

I can see 4 years as pushing it. I think it's reasonable to say 2 years is safe, maybe 3. 4-5 years I think is not going to happen. One thing I remind myself about Romo is his first 4 years he didn't get thrown into the fire. So he's 36 but early in his career he didn't take the pounding that a normal rookie qb would have taken. That may add years to his career and help him play a little longer than most.

Don't forget what everyone was saying prior to the 2014 season. He was coming off his 2nd back surgery, didn't play well in the preseason and in the first game against San Fran he sucked. I think he threw either 3 or 4 picks. Then he turned it around and had the best season of his career. But everyone in the media was killing Romo all offseason prior to 2014 and after that 1st game. But with all that being said. I think a smart plan for Dallas is to plan/hope Romo has 2 good years left but draft a guy that could step in either late next year or starting the year after that as the main guy. If we don't come away with some form of young qb to be the eventual replacement for Romo in this offseason then Jerry seriously needs to find a nice spot by the looking window at the old folk's home and park his butt there. I personally hope Romo can play for 4 more years and we're stuck with a decision four years from now on whether to sign Wentz or Goff to a long term deal given that Romo has been on the field and they would be unproven.

that's the problem I want to have.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Sturm did a fairly big Q&A that can be found here:

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...oys-mailbag-part-1-doubting-tony-romos-future

His response re: Tony's shoulder was a bit disturbing. Sturm makes no pretense to indicate it's anything other than his opinion/speculation, however, I've got a lot of respect for Sturm and I hope in this particular case he is wrong.

Here is the excerpt:

"Here it is: I don't think Romo's situation can be classified as a QB with "injury issues" anymore. Rather, I would suggest that Romo's collarbone situation would have to be called a "ticking time bomb." I think his future is week to week, not year to year. No longer a question of "if", but rather a matter of "when". I think that his collarbone has obviously not mended like they had first hoped and so here we sit - 159 days since Jordan Hicks broke it in September and 92 days since Thomas Davis got him again on Thanksgiving Day - without any further resolution that he is as good as new and ready to play. I might remind you that the Cowboys resisted the obvious plans of putting him on injured reserve because they originally assumed he would be available for the NFC Championship Game which was played on January 24th. 33 days ago.​

So, I don't believe his collarbone has mended properly since Thankgsiving. And I sure don't believe it healed like they thought it would from September - as evidenced best that he broke it again on a rather normal-looking hit on Thankgsiving Day. I am far from a medical expert, but I can read a calendar. When they talk about this 8-10 weeks business and we sit here at the end of February and discuss further procedures, but still under the banner of "everything is fine and there is no reason for alarm", I am tempted to sound the sirens. I am not buying it anymore. This Mumford procedure that discusses shaving off part of the clavicle seems like a very odd way to strengthen a collarbone. I am positive I am showing my medical ignorance, but I also am assuming that most people having that procedure are not having 300 lb linemen like Fletcher Cox or Johnathan Hankins trying to slam them right on their collarbone at their first chance in an effort to remove the Cowboys biggest and most indispensible weapon from the proceedings.​

I don't like it. In fact, I don't believe the rhetoric coming out of Valley Ranch on this topic anymore. I don't believe this 5-year window nonsense, and frankly, I don't believe they believe it either. There have been 8 QBs who were starters when Tony Romo took over the job in Dallas and remain starters today (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, and Romo). The only one to have started as few games as Romo is Palmer, and that is only because the injury-prone Palmer also has a 9-game contract holdout to his credit. In other words, Romo has the worst health-related attendance record in his peer group, and it doesn't look like it will ever get better."​

Look, none of us have access to the medical info for Romo so all we are doing is guessing here, including Strum. The facts are that Romo is 36 yrs old and has had back to back breaks of the collarbone.

Like somebody said, its simple physics that if a 300 pound DT drives Romo into the turf, the collarbone probably breaks again.......even with the Mumford procedure.

The bottom line is we either need to become a heavy running team with minimal pass plays to prevent Romo from taking so many hits or we need to think about getting the QB of the future in this draft. Going 5 WR empty sets is just asking for Romo to get hurt again. The other problem is Romo now has a huge target on his shoulder and if I am an opposing DC, I tell my guys to put Romo on the ground and hard. I would blitz those empty sets and get some free runners on Romo to see how that shoulder holds up.

Its the same reason that guys will play with injuries and never tell the team, because they don't want to go on the injury report. I have heard stories from guys that say if you ever ended up on the injury report, it was like painting a target on whatever you hurt. They would hide injuries from the team to keep from going on the list.

So yes, it does happen unfortunately.

 

[Blackspider214]

He's right. Of course, any player can be injured on any given play and you can have your career ended at any second. But Romo is broken. He can't even have a defensive player land on him the wrong way or he's done for the year. Happened this past season and 2013. And all his other injuries. You can't count on him. You hold your breath on pretty much any time a defender wraps him up.

 

[noshame]

He's right. Of course, any player can be injured on any given play and you can have your career ended at any second. But Romo is broken. He can't even have a defensive player land on him the wrong way or he's done for the year. Happened this past season and 2013. And all his other injuries. You can't count on him. You hold your breath on pretty much any time a defender wraps him up.

What is the career ender? Every defense knows you just have land on him and they'll do it multiple times a game. Sadly it's over .

 

[DandyDon1722]

Look look look.... So we draft a QB right? Let him play, build a relationship with the WR's that we have and the ones we bring along. Build a relationship with the O-Line, we won't do much for 2 years maybe 3, because he'll still be green.

But then once the phase is over, we are most likely set.

Instead bringing back bad back and shoulder romo, letting him play for 2-3 years, while we still do nothing, and while the, the rook gets no PT. Then after romo leaves after screwing us for another 2-3 years, now we suffer for another 2-3 years letting the use to be Rook take over, and get use to the players.

Face it, wake up. Cut the crap we are not winning with Romo. Not now, not next year, not ever.

I use to be like you, thinking he could do go all the way with Romo.

NOPE!

This stuff is so ridicules I shouldn't even respond - but I'll be nice.

Of course there realities are Romo is on the backside of his career and of course we need to address the position and that's really all it is. But you go so off the rails so bad it's - wait - I'll be nice.

First, as much as you and about five others (that's about all) scold the rest of us for putting all our eggs in one basket with Tony - you then go and put all of yours into a sure thing can't miss quarterback who we "are most likely set" with. Most likely...really. That's what you're counting on. Do you have any idea how naive that is? Don't forget a lot of eggs went into Mark Sanchez and Tim Couch and Jamarcus Russell and Matt Lienert and Vince Young and Johnny Manziel and Sam Bradford and EJ Manual, etc. But you know for sure.

Then somehow, Romo is screwing us by playing another two years? Is Stafford and Rivers and Ryan and Smith and Brees and Eli, etc screwing their teams? Some of those guys haven't won anything and some who have won haven't done squat in that last few years. But Tony is screwing us.

Was Favre screwing the Packers with Rodgers learning behind him?

The player who should've been the NFL's MVP just one year ago is screwing us, yet every single current or former player, coach, GM or analyst all agree we should win the East with hm next year and Vegas has us as a top ten Super Bowl contender - but somehow he's screwing us.

Finally - you somehow know we can never win with him. Even though he did everything asked of him to get us to the NFC Championship game just one year ago. Do you have any idea how many teams would be Super Bowl contenders with him? How about Buffalo, or the Jets or Kansas City or the Vikings.

I'm gonna stop - like I said I'll be nice. Thank god there's only about five of you out there. At least the Board keeps some modicum of credibility.

 

[plasticman]

Conspiracy Theory:

Tony Romo and everybody in the front office knows that his career is over. He's not coming back.

Romo has agreed to keep the situation low key until after free agency and the draft. This gives the Cowboys a better chance of not tipping off the other teams that getting a quarterback is absolutely critical.

After the draft, Tony Romo will announce his retirement effective immediately.

And, just to add a little more drama......

One Sports channel's group of executives already knows and will get the scoop because they've already signed Romo to a contract as an NFL analyst.

Just some "nutjob" conspiracy theorist, you say? Perhaps.............but then again........

 

[RSM94]

Everything I've read about the Mumford procedure says that it is done to relieve pain, NOT to strengthen the bone. So what does this tell you? Romo's shoulder is in pain.....

 

[plasticman]

Meanwhile:

Jerry Jones is trying to throw everyone off the story by insisting Romo still has 3-5 years left.

When they sign a veteran free agent, everyone will just figure that the Cowboys decided to go defense with the #4 pick. This will be especially convincing since the free agent will be thought to have starting capability and is seen as as being insurance in case of a Romo injury. In reality, he will be the starter in 2016..

This deceptive strategy will prevent another team from trading up ahead of the Cowboys to get their quarterback because they will not see them as a threat to take their QB but the Cowboys will take him with the #4 pick.

A few days later, Romo will announce his retirement. The Cowboys will pick up another free agent QB on the cheap, a one year contract, an older guy with maybe a year or two left as a backup and capable of positive contributions if needed.

The rookie 1st round pick will start the season as the 3rd option despite Romo's retirement.

 

[Vinnie2u]

We don't know a lot. We have no xrays or other scans to see how it has healed. Is it anatomically correct or is there some rotation etc of the bone from the healing?

There is no reason why the bone is not healed by now unless there is a non-union. If it were then they would have already operated so we can rule this out.

That leaves doing something to prevent a further break which would only occur in an athlete in a contact sport. You and I would likely not be contemplating this.

My educated guess is they just want to reduce the risk of another break. The arm is suspended from a wishbone in the form of the collarbone and the scapula. The scapula floats which is why is takes a significant direct blow to break it. Think Roy on Emmitt and that is highly unusual as we generally think high impact car accidents etc to break the scapula.

The collar bone attaches to the sternum or breastplate. Impact on the end of the shoulder as in a fall onto the shoulder drives the wishbone into its attachment. Being a longitudinal bone the clavicle generally loses the battle and breaks from midshaft to distal shaft generally the latter.

If you remove part of the distal clavicle then you increase the zone of compressibility and move the clavicle further away from the direct transmission of the force. I didn't look at any data to see if there is a decreased incidence of recurrent injury following this procedure. I've never heard of it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. My guess is there is no great data as there are too many variables to arrive at good conclusions and too small a sample size. You'd have to have a curbside consult with someone like Andrews who has enough personal knowledge to give you an inclination albeit not a great answer.

The vascilation is just a symptom of the inability to move forward. Romo doesn't have enough good data to formulate a decent plan. That doesn't mean he won't do anything.

And there is no way to strengthen the shoulder here to decrease the likelihood of another break. If he falls on the shoulder hard enough in the right position it will break again as would yours or mine. It's simple physics.

And for the last time.....his back is at only a slightly greater risk than any other starting QB in the NFL.

You must of stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

Conspiracy Theory:

Tony Romo and everybody in the front office knows that his career is over. He's not coming back.

Romo has agreed to keep the situation low key until after free agency and the draft. This gives the Cowboys a better chance of not tipping off the other teams that getting a quarterback is absolutely critical.

After the draft, Tony Romo will announce his retirement effective immediately.

And, just to add a little more drama......

One Sports channel's group of executives already knows and will get the scoop because they've already signed Romo to a contract as an NFL analyst.

Just some "nutjob" conspiracy theorist, you say? Perhaps.............but then again........

i guess I started this conspiracy theory cause I said this here before the Super Bowl.

 

[DogFace]

Well, ****.

 

[Texas_Pete]

He's 100% right. I would even move up in the draft to assure that we get Wentz or Goff. I wouldn't bank on Tennessee being content with Mariota - and thinking they wouldn't draft Goff or Wentz too. I say this because didn't the Skins take RGIII and Cousins in the 1st round in the same draft? Didn't the Packers take Aaron Roger's in the 1st despite having Favre on their roster? How about 49ers having Montana and Steve Young on the same roster?

We need to draft Romo's heir. If we had a competent backup last year, we're not 4-12. Good QB play is vital to our success. We've had a laundry list of subpar QBs since Aikman retired until Romo finally came on the scene.

Good QBs are hard to come by. As much as I want an impact player like Ramsey or Bosa, I'm inclined to want them to invest in the most important position in sports. Like Sturm said, it's no longer if but when Romo goes down again. We need to be prepared when it happens.

 

[Texas_Pete]

If he actually ahd some complication that a plate wouldn't solve then I would buy it. This is just fearmongering.

But what if he is right?