Taco's sack against the Rams

[CowboyRoy]

No, you are right; context is certainly important. But 5 sacks over the course of the year in a rotation would be a good number for him. Of course, another disclaimer I should point out is that he may get zero sacks and still be considered solid as a player. Sacks are huge, but they aren't the end-all-be-all deciding factor in rather or not a player is good in his role.

Im pretty much in line with you. 6 would be bottom level happy for me I think.

 

[jday]

He is the pass rushing lber in the 3-4. The guy is essentially a DE. Ware played both. I dont see them as that different. Both rush the passer from the end position. They both rush and they both play the run.

But it is still different...and in those different, comes different responsibilities and different challenges. But if you see them as basically the same, Taco is likely in for a very disappointing year as compared to Watt. But that's just a guess.

 

[Verdict]

I think the problem is that a first round pick is expected to be an impact player by most fans, not just a solid player.

Yes, or at least show enough to give a glimpse of what a first round pick should be in relatively short order.

 

[Verdict]

If Taco get's 5 sacks this year, I'd be very happy...and so should most people.

I hear what you are saying but I think that is too arbitrary. If he only got two sacks but was pressuring the QB all day that might be good enough to validate the pick. But if he got 6 sacks but didn't sniff the QB the rest of the year that's probably not enough. Common sense and the eyeball test have to also be employed.

 

[CowboyRoy]

But it is still different...and in those different, comes different responsibilities and different challenges. But if you see them as basically the same, Taco is likely in for a very disappointing year as compared to Watt. But that's just a guess.

Yep, they have differences. Now why would one have a disappointing season compared to the other? Why shouldnt both have good seasons? I would think they would both get a good bit if playing time.

 

[Bullflop]

Rumors are that the league might "legalize" marijuana so Gregory might be OK if he can get back in football shape.

Reportedly, Gregory suffers from social anxiety, hence the compulsion to get stoned with weed. If a legal drug exists to counteract his problem, perhaps there's hope. However, it would seem if something was available that wasn't prohibited by the league, he would have used it by now. I'm not at all sure the league will legalize marijuana anytime soon, though, but it might be interesting to keep tabs on that anyway, going forward.

 

[bsbellomy]

Even if Taco is a perfectly "good" pick, Cowboys should still exhaust all opportunities to bring in the quick twitch Von Miller/Demarcus Ware type EDGE rushers.

Of all the great ones in the league right now, how many were drafted as low as 28? And don't give me any names of guys who failed drug tests right before the draft.

 

[Doomsday101]

I want this to be clear .... first of all I am not attacking you, this is just a discussion among friends. I am not even saying Taco will be a bust, as I have never said that.

My main contentions are that I don't care for his measurables (which are not the end all), I haven't seen much out of him so far to justify his draft position, I don't take any comfort in the training camp reports coming out on him, he is probably too much of a project to justify the 28th draft slot, and I am not seeing the burst some others claim to see.

In fact I think he will contribute to some degree at left DE and be a good run stuffer.

I never mentioned you at all, my comments had nothing to do with you. However I stand behind what I said those who threw a hissy fit about him being drafted will be his worse critics. The kid has played 2 fricken pre season games. He showed some improvement but of course those who do not like the pick will continue to hammer him. I would hope people will give the kid a chance to show himself.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

It also depends where the pick is made. A DL taken towards the end of the first isn't quite the same as one taken in the top-10 and shouldn't be expected to be.

I think that's important to understand too. Doesn't mean he won't be a star but he wasn't a top tier talent in this draft. He was closer to a 2nd rounder than he was a top 10 pick.

 

[gmoney112]

I hear what you are saying but I think that is too arbitrary. If he only got two sacks but was pressuring the QB all day that might be good enough to validate the pick. But if he got 6 sacks but didn't sniff the QB the rest of the year that's probably not enough. Common sense and the eyeball test have to also be employed.

Do some quick research on how sacks Pro Bowl type DE's got their rookie years. Start with Khalil Mack.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I'm thinking much ado about nothing, as well, but you could make a similar argument in regards to at least 1 of Watt's sacks, if not both against the Giants.

Either way, I could care less...Taco is doomed to be compared to Watt for the remainder of his career, despite the fact that they play in two completely different positions and systems.

If I remember correctly, one of Watt's sacks was a team sack. They collapsed the pocket and when the QB tried to escape, that is when he was sacked. (should have been a sack and was)

The other, I believe Watt was unblocked and he basically used his athletic ability to get to him. Leaving a guy unblocked on a play like that is asking to get sacked. Though he still did have to catch and bring him down.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Taco doesn't need to be the answer. He just needs to be part of the solution to our overall lack of talent on the d-line.

 

[jday]

I hear what you are saying but I think that is too arbitrary. If he only got two sacks but was pressuring the QB all day that might be good enough to validate the pick. But if he got 6 sacks but didn't sniff the QB the rest of the year that's probably not enough. Common sense and the eyeball test have to also be employed.

It's funny, your not the first person to point out to me that context is important and I agree 100%. The example I made to the other poster is that he could have 0 sacks and still have a great year. The intent behind my original point was to temper expectations.

 

[casmith07]

I hear what you are saying but I think that is too arbitrary. If he only got two sacks but was pressuring the QB all day that might be good enough to validate the pick. But if he got 6 sacks but didn't sniff the QB the rest of the year that's probably not enough. Common sense and the eyeball test have to also be employed.

Folks love to focus on the stats instead of the whole picture.

Anthony Spencer never posted enormous sack totals but his athleticism with Ware means you weren't running outside of the tackles, period. I remember when he chased Michael Vick down from the backside in like 2011.

 

[xwalker]

Folks love to focus on the stats instead of the whole picture.

Anthony Spencer never posted enormous sack totals but his athleticism with Ware means you weren't running outside of the tackles, period. I remember when he chased Michael Vick down from the backside in like 2011.

Spencer did so many other things and did them really well. They struggled to ever find somebody else to do those things; otherwise, they would not have Franchised him twice. He was really good against the run, good in coverage and decent as a pass rusher and more than anything he knew when to rush vs wait for the run vs drop in coverage vs cover the RB out of the backfield.

 

[casmith07]

Spencer did so many other things and did them really well. They struggled to ever find somebody else to do those things; otherwise, they would not have Franchised him twice. He was really good against the run, good in coverage and decent as a pass rusher and more than anything he knew when to rush vs wait for the run vs drop in coverage vs cover the RB out of the backfield.

The only reason he was franchised twice was because of his knee.

 

[jday]

Yep, they have differences. Now why would one have a disappointing season compared to the other? Why shouldnt both have good seasons? I would think they would both get a good bit if playing time.

Watt may get more playing time though. I honestly don't have any handle on how they intend to use Watt, but the line is long at DE for the Cowboys and I don't think Taco is going to start.

My concern, as I'm sure you are already aware, is there will be a group of fans who will only look at the sack numbers and make a conclusion, without ever even stopping to consider snap count and the difference in scheme. In Marinelli's scheme, the 3 tech by design should get alot of sacks. In the 3-4 by design, the olb gets alot of sacks. So, one could infer based on design, Watt will get more sacks than Taco because he is not necessarily in the prime spot to get sacks.

 

[erod]

Watt may get more playing time though. I honestly don't have any handle on how they intend to use Watt, but the line is long at DE for the Cowboys and I don't think Taco is going to start.

If not for the suspensions, I doubt he'd even be active for the Giants game.

 

[jday]

If I remember correctly, one of Watt's sacks was a team sack. They collapsed the pocket and when the QB tried to escape, that is when he was sacked. (should have been a sack and was)

The other, I believe Watt was unblocked and he basically used his athletic ability to get to him. Leaving a guy unblocked on a play like that is asking to get sacked. Though he still did have to catch and bring him down.

My point is, I don't think it would be fair to either player to compare them as their career progresses because of the differences in their job responsibilities and the differences in the scheme they play, but I could be wrong.

 

[jday]

If not for the suspensions, I doubt he'd even be active for the Giants game.

My point exactly.