Taco's sack against the Rams

[TonyS]

So much infighting and arguing on these boards between us fans. "I'm right and you're an idiot" is the summation of most of the posts on this board. Not saying we all need to sing songs and hold hands, but a lot of threads are full of mindless posts from people attacking someone and that person having to defend themselves. I'm going to be more sensitive to my posts from here on out and apologize to those I've offended. Just because I think I'm right, its not my job to insult someone's knowledge or opinion. It takes a bigger person to disagree w/out the insults, whether inferred or directly stated. Onward and upward!

 

[CowboyRoy]

Speaking of "facts," which you seem to struggle with, I actually said, "I think Strahan is a good comparison for how he will need to evolve as a player." No certainty there at all. Simply remarking on what abilities he'll need to work on, as I went into further detail on. Nice attempt to take something out of context and twist it to suit your argument. Or did you misread it again? In which case, as I have now said three times, reading comprehension...

For the record, just about everyone in the media agrees he had a very strong showing in the second game. More than just the one sack. But, I'm sure quoting media only works when it benefits you.

You're a troll. We're done.

LOL.........dont get upset because you fail to express yourself properly. You corrected yourself, yet you still rant like a child.

The media acknowledges he improved from his horrid first game, which is all he did.

Stop insulting other for their opinions. If you cant handle reality, then just put me on ignore. Because if its one thing I will not listen to, its someone saying taco "will be the next strahan" after one sack against backups.

There are posters that come on here for the facts and to find out what really happened. And your assessment was far and away the most silly analysis yet.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Playing devils advocate......Dak looked terrible in training camp last year. I remember reading reports saying Jameil Showers and Kellen Moore looked better than him. You have to do it somewhere. I'd rather him look good against a scrub than look bad against one.

Taco has not looked good against anyone. Save the sack. Kudos on his first sack. But it wasnt much more than that.

 

[texbumthelife]

LOL.........dont get upset because you fail to express yourself properly. You corrected yourself, yet you still rant like a child.

The media acknowledges he improved from his horrid first game, which is all he did.

Stop insulting other for their opinions. If you cant handle reality, then just put me on ignore. Because if its one thing I will not listen to, its someone saying taco "will be the next strahan" after one sack against backups.

There are posters that come on here for the facts and to find out what really happened. And your assessment was far and away the most silly analysis yet.

I expressed myself perfectly. Not correction needed. You misread, as I've already proved. I said he'll need to work on playing the position like Strahan did, not relying on athleticism. Moving on (again).

The media has widely acknowledged he played a good game, not just a "better" game and showed some good flashes. Showing flashes is what I think the coaches and most fans are really looking for this early in his development. I don't expect him to be a world beater out of the gate.

What were/are your expectations?

 

[CowboyRoy]

If Taco get's 5 sacks this year, I'd be very happy...and so should most people.

Depends on how much he plays. And what he looks like when he plays. Putting a number on it is a little too simple. But that sounds about right if he looked good in other areas.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm thinking much ado about nothing, as well, but you could make a similar argument in regards to at least 1 of Watt's sacks, if not both against the Giants.

Either way, I could care less...Taco is doomed to be compared to Watt for the remainder of his career, despite the fact that they play in two completely different positions and systems.

He is the pass rushing lber in the 3-4. The guy is essentially a DE. Ware played both. I dont see them as that different. Both rush the passer from the end position. They both rush and they both play the run.

 

[texbumthelife]

He is the pass rushing lber in the 3-4. The guy is essentially a DE. Ware played both. I dont see them as that different. Both rush the passer from the end position. They both rush and they both play the run.

You don't think there is any difference between a 43 DE and a 34 OLB (excluding when the LB drops into coverage)?

 

[CowboyRoy]

I expressed myself perfectly. Not correction needed. You misread, as I've already proved. I said he'll need to work on playing the position like Strahan did, not relying on athleticism. Moving on (again).

The media has widely acknowledged he played a good game, not just a "better" game and showed some good flashes. Showing flashes is what I think the coaches and most fans are really looking for this early in his development. I don't expect him to be a world beater out of the gate.

What were/are your expectations?

NO more insults? Thank you.

My expectations are low for his rookie year. Overall I see him as a quality LDE. (could possibly be a tolbert type down the line) I do not feel he can be a great RDE. Now that could change as he develops. But that would be my call based on what little info we have.

The LOCAL media, like some fans look for anything to pump up Taco. Its as simple as watching his play. Watched ever snap several times. Did you or are you just going on local media?

Local media has also talked about how bad he has been.

 

[texbumthelife]

So, to those discrediting Taco's sack, and overall play, because it was against back-ups, does that mean if he had performed poorly, like he did in the first game, that also wouldn't matter? Or does he need to absolutely light up teams second units (while playing alongside second and third teamers) to have performed well?

 

[CowboyRoy]

You don't think there is any difference between a 43 DE and a 34 OLB (excluding when the LB drops into coverage)?

Thats not what I said. What they do is not so different that they cant be judged together.

 

[CowboyRoy]

So, to those discrediting Taco's sack, and overall play, because it was against back-ups, does that mean if he had performed poorly, like he did in the first game, that also wouldn't matter? Or does he need to absolutely light up teams second units (while playing alongside second and third teamers) to have performed well?

Now why wouldnt it matter? Against backups you should do better shouldnt you? One can understand him struggling against the Cowboy starters. But to struggle against backups or low end starters? There is a difference.

 

[texbumthelife]

NO more insults? Thank you.

My expectations are low for his rookie year. Overall I see him as a quality LDE. (could possibly be a tolbert type down the line) I do not feel he can be a great RDE. Now that could change as he develops. But that would be my call based on what little info we have.

The LOCAL media, like some fans look for anything to pump up Taco. Its as simple as watching his play. Watched ever snap several times. Did you or are you just going on local media?

Local media has also talked about how bad he has been.

I've watched the game multiple times on game rewind. He played a great game. Not just in comparison. He flashed great ability both rushing the passer and holding the edge against the run. He's also playing alongside second and third string players in the most vanilla of schemes.

I like what I have seen out of him. He's working hard and in just one week has already corrected some of the issues that made his first game a little rough. That's exactly the sort of studious, workmanlike attitude he needs to have to be successful in this league.

 

[texbumthelife]

Now why wouldnt it matter? Against backups you should do better shouldnt you? One can understand him struggling against the Cowboy starters. But to struggle against backups or low end starters? There is a difference.

So it's knock him down if he doesn't play great, but when he does play well it's "it's only back-ups it doesn't matter." Kind of setting the guy up for failure already.

 

[texbumthelife]

Thats not what I said. What they do is not so different that they cant be judged together.

The positions have inherently different responsibilities particularly when it comes to lane integrity, gap control and contain. Watt, more often than not, will have outside contain responsibility, which means he only has to occupy the OT's outside should allowing him to bend and turn the corner on every play. Taco, on the other hand, is being asked to read the play and either set the edge and hold the OT's outside shoulder, or make an inside move to fill that gap.

It's actually very different.

 

[CowboyRoy]

So it's knock him down if he doesn't play great, but when he does play well it's "it's only back-ups it doesn't matter." Kind of setting the guy up for failure already.

If I am not communicating properly, then let me give you my complete view:

-Not big on the pick of Taco but I could see where he has the measurables. Minus the speed.
-Doesnt play mean or nasty. I dont see a high motor on him.
-I dont expect much out of defensive rookies so not shocked he is struggling some
-Like the sack, but the rest of the game was NOT a good showing. Maybe for a rookie it was ok. I didnt see anything else to be excited about. Its pretty much what I expected. He struggled. Watched every snap at least twice.
-Glad to see he got his first sack and did improve.

 

[BermyStar]

Yes, but the Rams are a very bad team. Taco has 1 sack in two preseason games against mostly scrubs. That projects out to 8 sacks in his rookie year which would be great if he played against players who are going to be cut all 16 regular season games, but we know that's not going to be the case. At least he has started sniffing the QB, but I didn't see a ton of pressure from Taco throughout the game. We have to see that consistently in the preseason, or we are unlikely to see it when the other team puts its starters in the game.

While you do make some valid points, there are also holes in your theory. You can't project his stats without factoring in his actual playing time. He didn't play 2 whole games, so his 1 sack in 2 games doesn't project to 8 sacks in 16 whole games. That being said I am pleased with Taco's progress, I believe he is showing what can reasonably be expected from most pass rushers picked near the bottom of the first. I am aware that he isn't going against All-pros just yet, but he can only play who they line up in front of him.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The positions have inherently different responsibilities particularly when it comes to lane integrity, gap control and contain. Watt, more often than not, will have outside contain responsibility, which means he only has to occupy the OT's outside should allowing him to bend and turn the corner on every play. Taco, on the other hand, is being asked to read the play and either set the edge and hold the OT's outside shoulder, or make an inside move to fill that gap.

It's actually very different.

Yep, Im aware of all that. But they rush the passer and they play the run. They will either be good at it or not. And one guy will do it better than the other.

 

[Robbieac]

And that's my point .. most fans expect a first round pick to be an impact player. It's the reason fans got upset when Frederick was picked, then got upset when Martin was picked. Those both turned out to be impact players, but their positions made it hard for many fans to expect that from them initially.

When you see other teams drafting quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, cornerbacks, etc. that can have a much larger and more easily measurable impact on their team, it's hard for fans to get excited about the other positions.

We have been spoiled here enough with players like Ware and Haley to make many fans think there's one of those players in the first round of every draft, when that is simply not the case.

For most offensive and defensive line players to be considered great picks, it requires surrounding them with solid players. If you took Zack Martin, Travis Frederick or Tyron Smith and put them on a team with 4 other backup or subpar lineman around them, they would look like average players at best because many offensive and defensive schemes require coordination and teamwork with the players next to them. It's not all one-on-one battles.

No one knows what kind of player Taco will turn out to be. He got a sack, but stats like this, especially this early in preseason, really don't matter. Hopefully, he will continue to improve and make an impact this season.

Personally, what I look for is a defensive lineman is a guy who can make a play when the game is on the line. I don't care if Taco only gets 5 sacks as long as they happen on third or fourth downs.

Great post!

 

[texbumthelife]

If I am not communicating properly, then let me give you my complete view:

-Not big on the pick of Taco but I could see where he has the measurables. Minus the speed.
-Doesnt play mean or nasty. I dont see a high motor on him.
-I dont expect much out of defensive rookies so not shocked he is struggling some
-Like the sack, but the rest of the game was NOT a good showing. Maybe for a rookie it was ok. I didnt see anything else to be excited about. Its pretty much what I expected. He struggled. Watched every snap at least twice.
-Glad to see he got his first sack and did improve.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I'm just not sure where you're getting this "he struggled" part from. I don't see any way he struggled against the Rams. Maybe if the expectation was he would get pressure on every drop back? I saw a player that was active and aggressive and though he's still "thinking" a little too much, his athleticism and ability showed up. He had three tackles, including one for a loss as well as the sack. That's good production for an entire game, yet he played what, 1/3 of the game?

I think as he gets more comfortable you'll see a little more nasty in his play, which he showed at Michigan quite a bit. You can see him processing out there and not feeling 100% comfortable yet. As he's able to just pin his ears back I think you're going to see increased production.

I don't think he's ever going to be a 15 sack guy, but I think he will have some double digit sack seasons and probably average closer to 8-9.

 

[Doomsday101]

While you do make some valid points, there are also holes in your theory. You can't project his stats without factoring in his actual playing time. He didn't play 2 whole games, so his 1 sack in 2 games doesn't project to 8 sacks in 16 whole games. That being said I am pleased with Taco's progress, I believe he is showing what can reasonably be expected from most pass rushers picked near the bottom of the first. I am aware that he isn't going against All-pros just yet, but he can only play who they line up in front of him.

I agree. 1st game he had 0 stats , no sacks and no tackles. This game with limited number of snaps he had 3 tackles and a sack. The kid showed some improvement, there is a long way to go for him but as he gets himself ready to the reg season. Like the 1st game they will go into the film room they will look at both the positives and negatives and he will continue to work on improving himself.