Takk > Taco or Taco > Takk

[FuzzyLumpkins]

did i or did i not say he has enough agility/moves for the job.

He scored worse than Taco on agility and change of direction drills.

 

[waldoputty]

The example of greed he gave is Revis and the the example of disloyalty was a player who left after being tagged.

There is no analogous situation. We aren't criticizing any player for moving on or taking top dollar in FA. We aren't even talking about players. That would be you and your rueage.

If that were the case people would be bashing Church and Wilcox for leaving and taking more money. Greed and disloyalty? Prima facie it's asinine.

Your explanations have been poorly conceived and the article a fail.

The article as a whole talks about how the NFL creates its mythos criticizing greed, money etc while promoting teamwork, loyalty and self-sacrifice.
It is the anti-NBA.
It is a good way for the boss to keep control of the workbees.

 

[waldoputty]

He scored worse than Taco on agility and change of direction drills.

you are right.
with more speed, he does not have to be as good in those.
thus, less focus on developing those skills and moves that taco would need with less speed and explosiveness.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The article as a whole talks about how the NFL creates its mythos criticizing greed, money etc while promoting teamwork, loyalty and self-sacrifice.
It is the anti-NBA.
It is a good way for the boss to keep control of the workbees.

You're talking around the argument now.

When someone complains about player salaries or ability to choose their workplace in the context of this discussion then let us know.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you are right.
with more speed, he does not have to be as good in those.
thus, less focus on developing those skills and moves that taco would need with less speed and explosiveness.

He doesn't have transcendent speed like a Von Miller. Even Miller has to deal with NFL LT who are massive and lightning quick in their own right.

This notion of yours that a player can just run in a straight line to the QB is pretty ignorant. There is a reason why they talk about bending the rush.

Taco is quicker and changes direction better while weighing 30 lbs more. His spin move is elite.

 

[waldoputty]

You're talking around the argument now.

When someone complains about player salaries or ability to choose their workplace in the context of this discussion then let us know.

hardly talking around the argument.
you were arguing against paying free agents.
others argued how the green bays of the world is doing it right.
it is all in the NFL type mythos.
little drone worker bees programmed to keep droning and sympathize with the owners and the league.

the league controls the universe and the message.
oh team work and loyalty are good.
greed and independent thought are bad.
celebrations are banned.
self expression is tabooed.
medical pot is bad even though narcotics pain killers are fine.

this is no different than the NCAA taking advantage of the kids to get free labor.
hopefully the kids learn to play in China and get paid for it instead of doing slave labor for the schools.

i took classes from herrsntein.
you would not believe how he talked about drone worker bees.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

no, just voicing my disagreement with the approach.
if taco turns out great, then i happily eat crow.
if taco is a bust, you will hear from me.

fans do not always agree with the team decisions.
lord know how many unhappy cleveland fans stayed with their team despite ...

the board is for expressing opinions.
i am doing that.
you are doing that.

Wait you're right if Taco doesn't work out? Somehow? Because what exactly?

Such a silly line in the sand fans draw.

Riddle me this...what if Taco busts but Lewis becomes a pro-bowler? If this happens you'll hear from me.

 

[waldoputty]

He doesn't have transcendent speed like a Von Miller. Even Miller has to deal with NFL LT who are massive and lightning quick in their own right.

This notion of yours that a player can just run in a straight line to the QB is pretty ignorant. There is a reason why they talk about bending the rush.

Taco is quicker and changes direction better while weighing 30 lbs more. His spin move is elite.

Again I already said Takk already has enough agility and moves given his speed.
I did not say he simply runs in a straight line.
I said he takes the most direct clearest path possible given his speed.

This is the first time I have heard Taco's spin move is elite.
In fact I have not heard Taco is elite in anything.
He is a nice player fit for a 2nd round rating.

Von Miller 10 yard split is 1.57 sec.
Takk is 1.60
Garrett is 1.63
Taco is 1.70

 

[waldoputty]

Wait you're right if Taco doesn't work out? Somehow? Because what exactly?

Such a silly line in the sand fans draw.

Riddle me this...what if Taco busts but Lewis becomes a pro-bowler? If this happens you'll hear from me.

Unfortunately we need the RDE a lot more than a CB.
I think we all agree on that?
Probowler CB is nice, but no CB can cover for 8 seconds.

I said if Takk works great and Taco is so-so then you will hear from me.
Unfortunately for you, you would hear from me in the weeks between also

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Again I already said Takk already has enough agility and moves given his speed.
I did not say he simply runs in a straight line.
I said he takes the most direct clearest path possible given his speed.

This is the first time I have heard Taco's spin move is elite.
In fact I have not heard Taco is elite in anything.
He is a nice player fit for a 2nd round rating.

Von Miller 10 yard split is 1.57 sec.
Takk is 1.60
Garrett is 1.63
Taco is 1.70

Garrett was the top prospect for a reason. Taco weighs 30 lbs more than the other two. I don't know what point you think you are making.

Taco beat Takk's shuttle score at that weight and destroyed his 3 cone score. I see you once again talk around that issue.

Frankly Takk's poor shuttle score is a glaring red flag for a guy that looks stiff and on rails trying to bend the corner. It's the reason why I liked Willis better who would not use his length properly but tested admirably.



Please find me other 280 lbs players that can do that. His balance is tremendous. You sure won't see Takk doing it.

 

[waldoputty]

Garrett was the top prospect for a reason. Taco weighs 30 lbs more than the other two. I don't know what point you think you are making.

Taco beat Takk's shuttle score at that weight and destroyed his 3 cone score. I see you once again talk around that issue.

Frankly Takk's poor shuttle score is a glaring red flag for a guy that looks stiff and on rails trying to bend the corner. It's the reason why I liked Willis better who would not use his length properly but tested admirably.



Please find me other 280 lbs players that can do that. His balance is tremendous. You sure won't see Takk doing it.

my point was the shuttle and cone scores are less critical given his 10 yard split score.
perfect, no.
but probably a lot easier to develop than Taco.

if you read this thread, one alternative i suggested was taking Taco/Takk, Willis and either Basham, Rivers etc.
instead of throwing numbers at DL, we threw numbers are CB.
DL was the real problem while CB was the self-inflicted problem.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

hardly talking around the argument.
you were arguing against paying free agents.
others argued how the green bays of the world is doing it right.
it is all in the NFL type mythos.
little drone worker bees programmed to keep droning and sympathize with the owners and the league.

the league controls the universe and the message.
oh team work and loyalty are good.
greed and independent thought are bad.
celebrations are banned.
self expression is tabooed.
medical pot is bad even though narcotics pain killers are fine.

this is no different than the NCAA taking advantage of the kids to get free labor.
hopefully the kids learn to play in China and get paid for it instead of doing slave labor for the schools.

i took classes from herrsntein.
you would not believe how he talked about drone worker bees.

I wasn't saying not to pay free agents. I was saying not to pay Gilmour or Bouye top dollar after one year of production. The basis I gave for it was the ability to sign Martin, Dak, and Zeke top dollar in the coming years. I really wanted them to pursue Melvin Ingram but he was tagged.

You don't have any sense on how to apply to argument. You also clearly have not been around during the various CBA discussions if you are trying to pin that tag on me.

Given that NFL players are allowed to form a trade union and negotiate a CBA using representatives they democratically elect this is nothing like the NCAA.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

hardly talking around the argument.
you were arguing against paying free agents.
others argued how the green bays of the world is doing it right.
it is all in the NFL type mythos.
little drone worker bees programmed to keep droning and sympathize with the owners and the league.

the league controls the universe and the message.
oh team work and loyalty are good.
greed and independent thought are bad.
celebrations are banned.
self expression is tabooed.
medical pot is bad even though narcotics pain killers are fine.

this is no different than the NCAA taking advantage of the kids to get free labor.
hopefully the kids learn to play in China and get paid for it instead of doing slave labor for the schools.

i took classes from herrsntein.
you would not believe how he talks about drone worker bees.

You look at the world through a very rigid lens. The Cowboys gave given out a big deal every year for 7 years. And had many players who were among or the highest paid players at their position.

People discount that spending because it was used to retain our own players. Not realizing the flip side to signing a big name free agent not from our team means that their original team couldn't afford to keep them. There is an obvious lesson to be learned there.

 

[JoeKing]

would never want to be a lawyer though some of my best friends are attorneys.
a thankless job most of the time.
patent law is too boring.
corporate law is too stiff.
sorry i am a startup guy.

You are a damn fool for beating this point of yours over the head of every person dumb enough to engage in the argument. This should have been one post, not the ridiculous thread that it has become. Look, I'm all for you saying what every you what to say on here and appreciate your passion in your point, you obviously genuinely believe every word you are saying. What I don't like is the repetitive nature of your every post. I understand you have daggers coming at you from several directions and you feel you have to fend them all off but you don't have to do it by addressing each and every post with the same points. Once you've made your points let those that want to argue do the work to read what you've already said rather than you repeating yourself so much. I'm sure you get tired of doing it and the readers lose interest after seeing you've written the same thing for the dozenth time. You like Takk over Taco, we all get it. We don't have to agree, live and let live. We have other things to discuss. Please for the sake of civility let this thread die like it should have over 200 posts ago. Peace brother and please know I won't reply to this thread again so please don't bother.

 

[waldoputty]

I wasn't saying not to pay free agents. I was saying not to pay Gilmour or Bouye top dollar after one year of production. The basis I gave for it was the ability to sign Martin, Dak, and Zeke top dollar in the coming years. I really wanted them to pursue Melvin Ingram but he was tagged.

You don't have any sense on how to apply to argument. You also clearly have not been around during the various CBA discussions if you are trying to pin that tag on me.

Given that NFL players are allowed to form a trade union and negotiate a CBA using representatives they democratically elect this is nothing like the NCAA.

the fact of the matter is there is plenty of cap dollars so we could easily keep martin.
dak and zeke do not come up for 3 more years.

i have not been around cba discussions.
i am not pinning anything specifically on you but on the board in general.
we are manipulated by corporate entities all the time.
i have been on the other side in chats and in negotiations.
so this is just par for the course.

sure the players have a union.
they are more worried about salaries than more emphemeral things like culture, message, pot etc.

 

[waldoputty]

You are a damn fool for beating this point of yours over the head of every person dumb enough to engage in the argument. This should have been one post, not the ridiculous thread that it has become. Look, I'm all for you saying what every you what to say on here and appreciate your passion in your point, you obviously genuinely believe every word you are saying. What I don't like is the repetitive nature of your every post. I understand you have daggers coming at you from several directions and you feel you have to fend them all off but you don't have to do it by addressing each and every post with the same points. Once you've made your points let those that want to argue do the work to read what you've already said rather than you repeating yourself so much. I'm sure you get tired of doing it and the readers lose interest after seeing you've written the same thing for the dozenth time. You like Takk over Taco, we all get it. We don't have to agree, live and let live. We have other things to discuss. Please for the sake of civility let this thread die like it should have over 200 posts ago. Peace brother and please know I won't reply to this thread again so please don't bother.

Thanks for being dumb enough for engaging in this
FYI I have receive private messages saying this argument is hilarious and counting the number of pages etc.
So at least some are getting entertainment out of this.

The posters who do not agree have obviously not read my response so I give them the answer again, perhaps in different ways.
sorry if the answer is repetitive but those are the answers.
It is not just Takk over Taco, but the whole attitude that troubles me.
I was actually bored before the draft so this is at least different.
Peace bro.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

the fact of the matter is there is plenty of cap dollars so we could easily keep martin.
dak and zeke do not come up for 3 more years.

i have not been around cba discussions.
i am not pinning anything specifically on you but on the board in general.
we are manipulated by corporate entities all the time.
i have been on the other side in chats and in negotiations.
so this is just par for the course.

sure the players have a union.
they are more worried about salaries than more emphemeral things like culture, message, pot etc.

The fact of the matter is the models you tried to use to prove that included a number of guesses and numbers you straight pulled out of your butt.

 

[waldoputty]

You look at the world through a very rigid lens. The Cowboys gave given out a big deal every year for 7 years. And had many players who were among or the highest paid players at their position.

People discount that spending because it was used to retain our own players. Not realizing the flip side to signing a big name free agent not from our team means that their original team couldn't afford to keep them. There is an obvious lesson to be learned there.

Spending like crazy leveraging the cap was dangerous before 2015.
I think the metric is not whether the Cowboys have given out a big deal every year for 7 years.
It should be how much talent the Cowboys can bring in within the limit of their cap as well as timing things so we maximize the number of championships.
We should obviously not spend for the sake of spending.
We should patient wait for the foundation to be built before going aggressive on the spending.
The news is - the foundation is built - it is time to go for the kill.

 

[waldoputty]

The fact of the matter is the models you tried to use to prove that included a number of guesses and numbers you straight pulled out of your butt.

Like our previous long discussion, the model building I learned is from the social sciences that you apparently do not approve of.
That includes classes from top game theorists like Abreu and psychologists like Herrnstein, the father of the matching theory.
We all have different backgrounds, but that is what makes arguments fun.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

my point was the shuttle and cone scores are less critical given his 10 yard split score.
perfect, no.
but probably a lot easier to develop than Taco.

if you read this thread, one alternative i suggested was taking Taco/Takk, Willis and either Basham, Rivers etc.
instead of throwing numbers at DL, we threw numbers are CB.
DL was the real problem while CB was the self-inflicted problem.

His 10 yard split score doesn't factor his ability to change directions at all.

You have no concept of what is involved in developing DL as you avoid the specifics when I bring them up or alternately display ignorance like your comments about a straight line to the QB.

Takk has maybe better potential as a dip and rip player although I am not sold but in things like inside out and outside in moves, speed to power moves to get the OT off balance and then shed them with a sudden powerful shift, inside counters like the slap and swim, or the spin move are all better suited for an athlete like Taco.