Tate's Catch v. Dez's Non-catch Catch

[KJJ]

Ok I will try to clear this up for you.



The way the NFL rules intended it to be called:

When a player is going to the ground, with or without contact, he must control the ball through contact with the ground...and here is the key part...unless he completes the 3 step process before he contacts the ground.

This would explain why Blandino kept bringing up a football move and is clearly illustrated in the casebook play I have posted several times.

You're misinterpreting the rule because it was ruled Dez never completed the 3 step process because when a receiver is "going to the ground" control isn't established until they contact the ground and hang onto the ball throughout that process. That's how Blandino explained it in one interview.

 

[LandryFan]

I never backed off anything and aren't trying to cover anyone's *** you're not comprehending. I explained the rule according to Pereira and made that clear. Blandino's explanations have varied to try and make everyone understand the rule better but he and the rest have remained steadfast that a receiver "who is going to the ground" must hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground. There was indisputable visual evidence Dez did not commit a "football move" "according to Blandino" because he said Dez needed to be "upright" and not be going to the ground to make a "football move." You don't even agree that Dez was "going to the ground" so you'll never understand or agree with the ruling.

First, I never said he wasn't going to the ground...he clearly did go to the ground. What I said was that there was a possibility (IMO) that he would have remained upright had the defender did not contact him. I know you don't think there's any way he would have stayed up...I understand that. I simply disagree. I looked at the video again just a minute ago ( and have watched it numerous times since yesterday) and the defender falls down in front of Dez causing him to trip. Granted, his momentum was taking him forward, but I think it's entirely possible that Dez could have regained his balance on the play. Just a disagreement in opinion. No big deal. Have a wonderful day!

 

[blindzebra]

If you're interpreting the rule correctly how come in all the interviews Blandino has done he hasn't been confronted with the casebook and how the ruling went down on the field? If you think you got some smoking gun then why hasn't he been confronted with it?

Arrange to get me in a room with Blandino and he will get confronted with it.

So you expect network talking heads who gloss over everything and get stuff wrong all the time are going to actually research the rules? Well there is a surprise coming from someone taking Blandino at his word.

Let's imagine that this is a court of law and on one side you have Blandino whose testimony has changed multiple times. On the other side you have Percy and I who have pointed out those inconsistencies and put actual NFL rule documents into evidence.

It is cut and dry, here. It is smoke and mirrors versus concrete evidence to the contrary. Only a fool would believe Blandino.

 

[blindzebra]

You're misinterpreting the rule because it was ruled Dez never completed the 3 step process because when a receiver is "going to the ground" control isn't established until they contact the ground and hang onto the ball throughout that process. That's how Blandino explained it in one interview.

LOL, I have repeated shown you the NFL's own interpretation that says that is wrong and challenged you to show something besides quotes from Blandino to refute it.

2012 the rules read the same as they did in 2013 and 2014. There were no rule changes in 2013-2014 in the catch rule. There were no point of emphasis on the catch rule in 2013-2014 that addressed a change in viewing going to the ground. Care to guess what that means?

It means that this interpretation

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

that clearly shows that the catch process can be completed after going to the ground begins was in place in 2014. It further ties into Blandino saying that they looked for a football move.

Read the case play and compare it to the nonsense Blandino is saying. Dez didn't take steps as it was all part of going to the ground...well the receiver in the case play had one down, was contacted, and then got a second one down. In other words this player going to the ground took two steps to complete that part of the process, Dez did in GB as well. If the process couldn't be completed with a football move, then why did Blandino bring up looking for one? Because under the rules the catch process did trump going to the ground.

Each generation of his BS went farther from what the rules said into what the rule later became. In 2014 a falling player could become a runner, in 2015 they must be a runner before they fall. That is not a change in wording, that is a completely new rule.

 

[KJJ]

Arrange to get me in a room with Blandino and he will get confronted with it.

So you expect network talking heads who gloss over everything and get stuff wrong all the time are going to actually research the rules? Well there is a surprise coming from someone taking Blandino at his word.

Let's imagine that this is a court of law and on one side you have Blandino whose testimony has changed multiple times. On the other side you have Percy and I who have pointed out those inconsistencies and put actual NFL rule documents into evidence.

It is cut and dry, here. It is smoke and mirrors versus concrete evidence to the contrary. Only a fool would believe Blandino.

I expect the network talking heads to do their homework and study the rule and if they find a discrepancy to confront Blandino with it. These are not stupid people they're all looking to put him on the spot and make him explain the rule but you're misinterpreting the rule. You claim you're a former ref so you should know that some judgement was involved on Dez's play. They have to use their judgement if he completed this 3 step process but the most important step for a receiver deemed "going to the ground" is to hang onto the ball when it contacts the ground. There's no getting around that.

 

[KJJ]

Let's imagine that this is a court of law and on one side you have Blandino whose testimony has changed multiple times. On the other side you have Percy and I who have pointed out those inconsistencies and put actual NFL rule documents into evidence.

You and Percy would get thrown out of court. Just more proof that FANS like you think they know it all.

 

[KJJ]

Arrange to get me in a room with Blandino and he will get confronted with it.

If he was any good at standup comedy he would have some fun with you. LOL

 

[KJJ]

First, I never said he wasn't going to the ground...he clearly did go to the ground. What I said was that there was a possibility (IMO) that he would have remained upright had the defender did not contact him. I know you don't think there's any way he would have stayed up...I understand that. I simply disagree. I looked at the video again just a minute ago ( and have watched it numerous times since yesterday) and the defender falls down in front of Dez causing him to trip. Granted, his momentum was taking him forward, but I think it's entirely possible that Dez could have regained his balance on the play. Just a disagreement in opinion. No big deal. Have a wonderful day!

Here's your quote: Roger everything you said. The only other thing I would question is the part about going to the ground. It appeared to me that he was going to the ground because of contact by the defender...I seriously thinks he deeps his feet without the contact. You clearly questioned whether he was going to the ground and in my opinion there was no question about it because his momentum from the time his feet hit the ground was taking him to the ground. Look, we disagree and we're just wasting each others time so let's move on.

 

[LandryFan]

Here's your quote: Roger everything you said. The only other thing I would question is the part about going to the ground. It appeared to me that he was going to the ground because of contact by the defender...I seriously thinks he deeps his feet without the contact. You clearly questioned whether he was going to the ground and in my opinion there was no question about it because his momentum from the time his feet hit the ground was taking him to the ground. Look, we disagree and we're just wasting each others time so let's move on.

And your point is? In the bolded part above, I didn't say he wasn't going to the ground, I said he was going to the ground because of contact by the defender. Am I missing something?

 

[blindzebra]

I expect the network talking heads to do their homework and study the rule and if they find a discrepancy to confront Blandino with it. These are not stupid people they're all looking to put him on the spot and make him explain the rule but you're misinterpreting the rule. You claim you're a former ref so you should know that some judgement was involved on Dez's play. They have to use their judgement if he completed this 3 step process but the most important step for a receiver deemed "going to the ground" is to hang onto the ball when it contacts the ground. There's no getting around that.

I don't claim anything I WAS AN OFFICIAL.

Once again you don't know what you are talking about. To have the 3 step process deemed complete means they are no longer a receiver going to the ground they are a runner and the going to the ground part goes poof. You admit Blandino looked for a football move to complete the process on one hand and say it doesn't matter on the other. It can't be both, that it why as time passed Blandino went away from it. He changed the rule to fit the overturn. How he called it in 2014 was not how the rule said it should be called, so he changed the rule to match it in 2015.

 

[KJJ]

And your point is? In the bolded part above, I didn't say he wasn't going to the ground, I said he was going to the ground because of contact by the defender. Am I missing something?

You felt Dez went to the ground due to contact when his momentum was clearly taking him to the ground as soon as he landed. I don't see how anyone could think he wouldn't have ended up on the ground despite the contact. From reading all your comments you're missing a lot just being honest with you.

 

[KJJ]

I don't claim anything I WAS AN OFFICIAL.

Once again you don't know what you are talking about. To have the 3 step process deemed complete means they are no longer a receiver going to the ground they are a runner and the going to the ground part goes poof. You admit Blandino looked for a football move to complete the process on one hand and say it doesn't matter on the other. It can't be both, that it why as time passed Blandino went away from it. He changed the rule to fit the overturn. How he called it in 2014 was not how the rule said it should be called, so he changed the rule to match it in 2015.

What league were you an official in? I know what I'm talking about and if you knew what you were talking about Blandino and the league would have been confronted and it would have opened up a big can of worms. You're giving your own interpretation of the rule to fit your claim that Blandino and the NFL are wrong and you and Percy are right. LOL

 

[LandryFan]

You felt Dez went to the ground due to contact when his momentum was clearly taking him to the ground as soon as he landed. I don't see how anyone could think he wouldn't have ended up on the ground despite the contact. From reading all you comments you're missing a lot just being honest with you.

Tell you what I'll try to do (don't know if I possess the tech savvy to do this). I will attempt to get a still shot of Dez after he has caught the ball and gotten his second (right) foot down. I froze the video In that shot and Dez is still upright (in just about the perfect position to run forward) but the defender is on the ground in front of his right leg. As Dez is taking his third step (left foot), his right leg trips over the defender causing him to lose balance and fall forward. He still manages to get his left foot down and push off in an attempt to reach the end zone. It all happens very fast, so I can understand debate, but in no way do I think it's a given he goes down on his own. In fact, I think he keeps his feet.

 

[Kevinicus]

Tell you what I'll try to do (don't know if I possess the tech savvy to do this). I will attempt to get a still shot of Dez after he has caught the ball and gotten his second (right) foot down. I froze the video In that shot and Dez is still upright (in just about the perfect position to run forward) but the defender is on the ground in front of his right leg. As Dez is taking his third step (left foot), his right leg trips over the defender causing him to lose balance and fall forward. He still manages to get his left foot down and push off in an attempt to reach the end zone. It all happens very fast, so I can understand debate, but in no way do I think it's a given he goes down on his own. In fact, I think he keeps his feet.

Don't waste your time. KJJ only listens to KJJ. He knows everything, and only he can be right. If you disagree with him, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You're just a FAN after all.

 

[KJJ]

Once again you don't know what you are talking about. To have the 3 step process deemed complete means they are no longer a receiver going to the ground they are a runner and the going to the ground part goes poof. You admit Blandino looked for a football move to complete the process on one hand and say it doesn't matter on the other. It can't be both, that it why as time passed Blandino went away from it. He changed the rule to fit the overturn. How he called it in 2014 was not how the rule said it should be called, so he changed the rule to match it in 2015.

Dez never established himself as a runner because he wasn't upright due to his momentum taking him to the ground therefore he had to hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground to complete the process. Blandino himself said he looked for a "football move" but Dez wasn't upright and because his momentum was talking him to the ground a "football move" can't be made according to his explanation. Rules can't be changed but all calls are judgement calls. The officials have to determine all the steps were met to warrant a completion. It comes down to judgment.

 

[blindzebra]

Dez never established himself as a runner because he wasn't upright due to his momentum taking him to the ground therefore he had to hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground to complete the process. Blandino himself said he looked for a "football move" but Dez wasn't upright and because his momentum was talking him to the ground a "football move" can't be made according to his explanation. Rules can't be changed but all calls are judgement calls. The officials have to determine all the steps were met to warrant a completion. It comes down to judgment.

Show where being upright was part of the rule in 2014.

 

[LandryFan]

Don't waste your time. KJJ only listens to KJJ. He knows everything, and only he can be right. If you disagree with him, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You're just a FAN after all.

Oh, I realize I'm only an ignorant fan...hell, I openly admit it. That said, I have looked at that play dozens of times and have managed to stop the video at various points in the catch sequence. Every time, I have come to the same conclusion: Dez doesn't go down on his own on that play, in all likelihood. I wish someone else would watch that sequence (and look at Dez's body position frame by frame) and tell me what they see. (I'm basing my opinion on looking at it from a point of what would happen if the defender weren't in the position to trip him.)

 

[KJJ]

Tell you what I'll try to do (don't know if I possess the tech savvy to do this). I will attempt to get a still shot of Dez after he has caught the ball and gotten his second (right) foot down. I froze the video In that shot and Dez is still upright (in just about the perfect position to run forward) but the defender is on the ground in front of his right leg. As Dez is taking his third step (left foot), his right leg trips over the defender causing him to lose balance and fall forward. He still manages to get his left foot down and push off in an attempt to reach the end zone. It all happens very fast, so I can understand debate, but in no way do I think it's a given he goes down on his own. In fact, I think he keeps his feet.

Do what you want we've seen many still shots of the play from different angles with all the threads that have been started and it all comes down to judgement. Naturally on this board the judgement is Dez caught the ball and the Cowboys got screwed. Some FANS claim the ball never touched the ground despite indisputable video and still picture evidence of the ball being compressed on the ground. Some claim the ball never came loose because many are in denial and didn't want to see the ball come loose. You're giving your opinion just like everyone else and no ones opinion is going to change the play we're just wasting time.

 

[LandryFan]

You felt Dez went to the ground due to contact when his momentum was clearly taking him to the ground as soon as he landed. I don't see how anyone could think he wouldn't have ended up on the ground despite the contact. From reading all your comments you're missing a lot just being honest with you.

Sorry, I could not figure out how to freeze the shots and copy/paste them. I guess I'm just missing a lot and you aren't. maybe I'll somehow manage to go on with life.

 

[blindzebra]

Here are all the going to the ground casebook plays:

A.R. 8.8 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE OR INCOMPLETE PASS Second-and-5 on A35. A1 throws a forward pass to A2 at the A40. A2 dives for the ball and controls the ball in the air. The first thing to hit the ground is the point of the ball. a) A2 briefly loses control of the ball when it hits the ground; or b) A2 never loses control of the ball. Rulings: a) Third-and-5 on A35. Incomplete pass. b) First-and-10 on A40.

Note: Only the control aspect of the process met...needs to maintain control through ground.

A.R. 8.9 GOING TO THE GROUND—INCOMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on A30. A1 throws a pass to A2 who dives and controls the ball while airborne at the A38, but the ball comes out as he hits the ground. Ruling: Second-and-10 on A30. The pass is incomplete, as the receiver went to the ground in the process of making the catch and did not maintain possession of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground. 33

Note: Same as A.R.8.8

A.R. 8.10 GOING TO THE GROUND—INCOMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. The contact by B1 sends him across the goal line and to the ground in the end zone. The ball comes out as he hits the ground. Ruling: Second-and-10 on B25. The pass is incomplete, as the receiver went to the ground in the process of making the catch and did not maintain possession of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground.

Note: One foot down so still in receiver status.

A.R. 8.11 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on A30. A1 throws a pass to A2 at the A45 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. The contact by B1 causes A2 to go to the ground where he maintains control of the ball. Ruling: First-and-10 on A45. The pass is complete, as the receiver went to the ground in the process of making the catch and maintained possession of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground.

Note: 3 steps not met, needs to maintain control.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

Note: Player completes the 3 part process thus removing himself as a receiver going to the ground.

A.R. 8.13 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who is contacted by a defender before he completes the catch at the three-yard line. Despite B2’s contact, A2 keeps his balance, gets both feet down, and lunges over the goal line. The ball comes out as he hits the ground. Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The receiver went to the ground as the result of lunging for the goal line, not in the process of making the catch.

Note: Again the player completes the 3 step process and is a runner.