Texas Rangers Thread

[YosemiteSam]

Let's look at the top MLB career K/9 ratios (courtesy of baseball-reference.com)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_career.shtml

Rank Player (age) Strikeouts per 9 IP
1. Randy Johnson 10.6098
2. Kerry Wood 10.3445
3. Pedro Martinez 10.0398
4. Nolan Ryan+ 9.5481
5. Trevor Hoffman 9.3608
6. Sandy Koufax+ 9.2775
7. Oliver Perez 9.1160
8. Jake Peavy 8.9347
9. Sam McDowell 8.8580
10. Johan Santana 8.8507
11. Arthur Rhodes 8.8062
12. Scott Kazmir 8.7446
13. Dan Plesac 8.7397
14. Hideo Nomo 8.7344
15. Lee Smith 8.7324
16. Curt Schilling 8.5998
17. Roger Clemens 8.5521
18. Josh Beckett 8.5221
19. Eric Plunk 8.4526
20. Sid Fernandez 8.4038
21. J.R. Richard 8.3667
22. David Cone 8.2838
23. A.J. Burnett 8.2335
24. Tom Gordon 8.2315
25. Mariano Rivera 8.2194


Out of the top 25 pitchers in major league history with the highest K per 9, only 8 of them can you really say were truly great starting pitchers. There's some relief pitchers in there (If K/9 were the overriding factor in who would be a good starting pitcher, how come these guys weren't starters their entire career?) and a bunch of starters i'll bet you are surprised to see.




All of these guys have less than 7ks per 9 innings for their careers.
Cliff Lee, sitting at #100. Roy Halladay, #120. Kevin Brown, #138. Bob Feller, #214. Greg Maddux, #217. Gaylord Perry, #251. "Back of the rotation guys", indeed.

Strikeouts are just one way to get an out.

Are you stupid? I think you should re-think your argument. Wow, that was incredibly lame.

 

[DIAF]

Are you stupid? I think you should re-think your argument. Wow, that was incredibly lame.

Dude, no need for insults. I was merely presenting numbers to illustrate that K/9 is not the most important factor in predicting how good a starting pitcher is/will be.

I think the numbers tell the story.

The best starting pitchers keep the opposition from scoring, bottom line. Whether you do that by strikeout, ground ball, fly ball, it doesn't really matter. An out is an out.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Dude, no need for insults. I was merely presenting numbers to illustrate that K/9 is not the most important factor in predicting how good a starting pitcher is/will be.

I think the numbers tell the story.

The best starting pitchers keep the opposition from scoring, bottom line. Whether you do that by strikeout, ground ball, fly ball, it doesn't really matter. An out is an out.

Yeah, please excuse that post. I was being an idiot last night. :bang2:

 

[WDN]

Tonights game scares me.

1. Colby is pitching and he is giving up the longball.

2. Have to face a redhot Bautista.

3. Facing a rookie pitcher and the first time through we tend to make them look like Cy Young.

1. Check

2. Check

3. Check up to the 6th inning.

 

[DIAF]

sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo yeah..............Matt Harrison............

>.>

 

[YosemiteSam]

That was nasty. I turned it on at 2-0 in the first with no outs. I was forced to turn it off before the end of the top of the first because I didn't want to puke all over my monitor and keyboard.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I'm confused. (I didn't see the game)

The Rangers won 7-6. There was 1 error by the Blue Jays, yet only 1 run was earned. Considering there are only four bases, how in hell was there only one earn run with seven scores and yet only one error?

If the error resulted in a grand slam, (in the park homerun) there would only be four unearned runs. How in hell do you get six unearned runs with only one error?

 

[DFWJC]

I didn't watch the game but assume all the runs were scored in one inning and after the last out should have been made, but was not, due to an error.

 

[Mrdude108]

Pedro Strope just got a HUGE out after the bases were loaded, anyone else starting to really love him in our bullpen?

 

[dback]

Strop did make up for placing two batters on base quickly. I am not too fond of Darren Oliver today.

 

[Mrdude108]

I haven't liked Oliver at all this season or last season, absolutely ridiculous. Meanwhile Franky is killing us right now.

 

[DIAF]

Screw the Lose Jays, they cant leave town fast enough.

 

[DIAF]

Sooooo......how about that Matt Harrison.......again......

I think its safe to say that the Matt Harrison implosion is well underway.

Tommy Hunter where are youuuu

 

[YosemiteSam]

Harrison has to injured or something. I can't imagine a professional baseball player being that bad and perfectly healthy.

 

[WDN]

Sooooo......how about that Matt Harrison.......again......

I think its safe to say that the Matt Harrison implosion is well underway.

Tommy Hunter where are youuuu

I think Hunter is just about ready. I believe he is going to pitch a rehab start in the minors this week.

I tried not to buy into the Harrison hype and held off for awhile. It was hard not to buy into it but now he knows its going to take more than reading books.

 

[WDN]

With the exception of the end of last season this team just can't play well without Hamilton. They just can't get over that mental block for some reason. I guess this is going to force us to pay that huge contract in a couple of years.

 

[DIAF]

God another blown lead. I hate this bullpen so much. Hopefully sticking hunter back in the rotation and using Harrison as mr. lefty in the pen will help.

 

[Stautner]

Strikeout per nine isn't a good indicator of who will be a good starting pitcher.

For instance, a lot of 8th/9th inning fireballers boast K/9 of over 8 or 9, but would make lousy starters for any number of reasons.

1. stamina
2. lack of other quality pitches/limited pitch repertoire
3. mentality
4. funky mechanics that lead to injury the more they pitch
etc, etc.


@ Stautner - I'm discounting Matt Harrison because I think he's pitching way over his head, based upon what is known about him to this point.

Im discounting Ogando because his fastball command isn't the greatest, doesn't really have a quality 3rd pitch...his greatest asset is his fastball which can range from 96-99 mph, and if he's pitching 6 or 7 innings at a time he'll be dialing that velocity down to get further into games. I think he'd be best used as a high-leverage reliever.

I agree with you about one thing though - many live arms don't become quality pitchers. In fact, I'd go as far to say the overwhelming vast majority of live arms never become quality pitchers precisely because they have a live arm. When guys figure out they can throw 90mph in high school they don't really bother learning pitches, they just keep getting stronger and blowing fastballs by inferior competition.

I also believed Harrison was likely pitching over his head because he had been around a little and hadn't developed any consistency in the past. All I was saying is that he had pitched well enough for enough games that there was reason to hold out hope and room for optimism because players do develop over time. That's the entire point of the minor league system. If that weren't true the minor league system would be a waste of time.

Ogondo, on the other hand, had no history other then a partial season as a successful short reliever. It was known that he had a fastball that could reach 100 mph, so I didn't understand suggesting he had no pedigree. What more pedigree do you need than being able to consistently throw your fastball between 94-98 mph? If you have that then it's just a matter of developing off speed alternnatives and developing mentally as a pitcher. A lot of other latin pitchers with a good arm and no United States pedigree have been able to do it, so what do we know about Ogondo that would tell us he can't do the same?

 

[DIAF]

I also believed Harrison was likely pitching over his head because he had been around a little and hadn't developed any consistency in the past. All I was saying is that he had pitched well enough for enough games that there was reason to hold out hope and room for optimism because players do develop over time. That's the entire point of the minor league system. If that weren't true the minor league system would be a waste of time.

Ogondo, on the other hand, had no history other then a partial season as a successful short reliever. It was known that he had a fastball that could reach 100 mph, so I didn't understand suggesting he had no pedigree. What more pedigree do you need than being able to consistently throw your fastball between 94-98 mph? If you have that then it's just a matter of developing off speed alternnatives and developing mentally as a pitcher. A lot of other latin pitchers with a good arm and no United States pedigree have been able to do it, so what do we know about Ogondo that would tell us he can't do the same?

I think you have forgotten, its been a couple of pages but I said that Ogando is regarded as a high-ceiling releiver but didn't profile really as a starter due to several issues i mentioned - fastball command, stamina, lack of a third pitch, etc. Those types are best suited to come in guns blazing for an inning or two. Developing useful third and fourth pitches and getting the mental aspect down is the hardest part, there's no "just a matter of" about it. Throwing hard is the easiest part, hard throwers are a dime a dozen.

So in the last week or two Harrison has reverted back to his old self.
Ogando is still doing well, hopefully it will last but I have my doubts.
Holland has regressed as well. But since Holland has that top-prospect pedigree, he'll get a longer look than Harrison will. Honestly I can't wait till we finally stop goofing around and just put feliz in the rotation where he belongs and have Scheppers/Ogando fight it out for the end-game. And have Harrison in the pen, maybe he'll be more successful there.

 

[dback]

God another blown lead. I hate this bullpen so much. Hopefully sticking hunter back in the rotation and using Harrison as mr. lefty in the pen will help.

Yes, but Darren Oliver had a masterful, one-pitch inning. :bang2:

I hope Neftali heals fast.