News: TF: Cowboys offer to Zeke approaches Gurley deal with a catch

[Pantone282C]

I was think an Adonis. Seems like it might be more inline with the parable.

 

[Pantone282C]

Not trajic at all Pantone. That's Earl Campbell. It's from the statue that sits at DKR Stadium.

Well, it looks like blood on his cheek, so I figured it was tragic!
Good avatar - Earl Campbell was a great football player.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, it looks like blood on his cheek, so I figured it was tragic!
Good avatar - Earl Campbell was a great football player.

Yeah, he was. Best I ever saw, no joke.

 

[Plankton]

All they have to do is put in a clause that the guarantees go away if he gets into any more trouble because it's guaranteed to happen.

Isn't that a standard part of every NFL player contract? If he gets another suspension, the guarantees go away.

 

[Stash]

Really cause I looked at the last five and found that an Elite WR was the exception. Marshawn won more recently than an Elite WR.

Which is why I said that I agreed that you don't need an elite receiver either. That in no way validates any need for a running back.

 

[JeffAtl]

Which is why I said that I agreed that you don't need an elite receiver either. That in no way validates any need for a running back.

That is a great point. Based on recent history, it seems like the only truly "elite" necessities might be the defensive line or secondary.

 

[jwooten15]

The guaranteed money in contracts is guaranteed if the team cuts the player or the player has a career ending injury before all guaranteed money has been paid out.

• What is not guaranteed per se is in the situation where the player gets suspended.
• The structure of the contract can have a huge impact on how much the player loses when suspended.
• The guaranteed money can be divided into 3 basic categories:
  • Signing Bonus
  • Base Salary (guaranteed in specific seasons)
  • Roster Bonuses

Base salaries are paid out over the 17 weeks of the season.

• If a player is suspended, he does not get paid 1/17th of the base salary for each week suspended.
• If that season has a "guaranteed" base salary, he loses guaranteed money for being suspended.
• If the player receives a roster bonus in March, he does not lose that if suspended after March.
• The issue with signing bonuses is a little more complicated but the point is that the contract structure is significant with regards to suspensions.
• They can put other language into contracts with regards to conduct.

They structured the contract for Dez differently than other contracts.

• Much of that structure was aimed not giving him too much too soon.
• They were worried that he would spend all of the signing bonus and 1st year salary and be broke by March of year 2.
• They didn't want his off-season or in-season performance to be turned upside down because he was out of money.
• They also didn't want to give him all of the guaranteed money as a signing bonus because he might quit.
• If he quit then they couldn't collect the prorated portion of the bonus that he would owe them.
• They structured the contract such that if he quit, he would lose a massive portion of the guaranteed money.

Very informative. Thanks a lot, man.

I remember Scandrick whining for a new contract just a couple years after signing an extension - he had blown through his signing bonus and was "broke"

 

[kskboys]

Yeah, he was. Best I ever saw, no joke.

For 5 years, Campbell was the best RB this league has ever seen. Bar none. When he came back after his injury after that, he was never the same.

 

[xwalker]

Isn't that a standard part of every NFL player contract? If he gets another suspension, the guarantees go away.

No, only in rookie contracts.

 

[kskboys]

Which is why I said that I agreed that you don't need an elite receiver either. That in no way validates any need for a running back.

Correct. DLine is the true winner of super bowls.

 

[JeffAtl]

For 5 years, Campbell was the best RB this league has ever seen. Bar none. When he came back after his injury after that, he was never the same.

I feel bad for the guys from that era that didn't have access to the surgical techniques we have now. An ACL in that era was pretty much career ending.

 

[glimmerman]

I feel bad for the guys from that era that didn't have access to the surgical techniques we have now. An ACL in that era was pretty much career ending.

And most of them don’t move around to well now.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

For 5 years, Campbell was the best RB this league has ever seen. Bar none. When he came back after his injury after that, he was never the same.

He ran as hard, played as hard, gave as much as any player I've ever seen play. It's funny, I've been one of the strongest proponents for the running game as there is on this board. Mostly because I watched this man play football. He was a great, great player.

 

[Cowboys22]

I'm not afraid of 15 million a year for three years with Zeke guaranteed (unless he's suspended). Can't tell me Dak is worth 30+ million, DLaw is worth 20, Amari is worth 20 and Zeke not worth 15. That doesn't represent the new cap or reality.

RBs command less salary because they are deemed to be at greater risk of injury and have a shorter shelf life compared to other positions. Right or wrong, they are also deemed easier to replace. So when you factor these things into a free market situation, they command a lower salary.

 

[Sydla]

You have to chuckle when you read reports like this that state the Cowboys are getting closer to what Gurley makes.

How is this negotiation going?

Jerry: Zeke, 5 years, $40MM with $28MM guaranteed.

Zeke: No

Jerry: OK, how about 5 years, $45MM with $32MM guaranteed.

Zeke: No

Jerry: Woo boy, I think I got you now. How about 5 years, $50MM with $35MM guaranteed?

Zeke: No

Jerry: Damn, son, you drive a hard bargain. Here's me best and final.............. 5 years, $53MM with $37MM guaranteed!

Zeke: No

Jerry: I tip my hat to you Zeke, you are a master negotiator. OK, 5 years, $65MM, with $50MM guaranteed.

 

[batman36]

I feel bad for the guys from that era that didn't have access to the surgical techniques we have now. An ACL in that era was pretty much career ending.

Billy Sims is a good example of your last sentence. After an ACL tear in 1984, his career was pretty much done.

 

[DandyDon52]

I expected that the issue of guaranteed money would be the major sticking point. It usually is with most contracts anyway, but I think that there are two points that make it an even bigger factor at work in these negotiations:

1. The Todd Gurley messed up the market. And it has proven to be a mistake for the Rams as they are now stuck with a running back with a balky knee because of that guaranteed money. They would get out of the deal I fully they could, but they can't. They are the cautionary tale for the rest of the league.
2. Elliott's own history should make anyone cautious in guaranteeing him anything. Let's face it, he can't guarantee that he can stay out of trouble and not miss games. So why should anyone guarantee him anything for that potential unknown? In short, they shouldn't. His own actions and choices created this dynamic, and he should be the one that suffers as a result, not anyone else.

EXACTLY , lol , it is also why he doesnt get any endorsement deals.
I read here all the time that EE is this superstar carrying the team and dak, dak is nothing without him, and dak is only worth 20 mil.
But companies who dont think like fans, see elliot as a risk, and a loose cannon, and he has already tarnished his image, and seems to
keep tarnishing it.
That is why Dak is doing the alberstons commercials now, and not elliot.
Elliot is burning all his bridges.
I dont think he or any rb is worth more than 10 mil a year, and I dont think he is the best RB in the league.
If I owned a team , there are about 10 other rb's I would rather have than mr feed me.

He isnt worth the headache or the worry about suspensions.
I think jerry will cave, and then they are stuck with him for at least 3 years, and it means less depth elsewhere.

NE and bellecheck would not pay elliot, and they would just make it work with another RB and probably trade EE.
And that is why they go to so many champ games and SB's.

 

[JeffAtl]

RBs command less salary because they are deemed to be at greater risk of injury and have a shorter shelf life compared to other positions. Right or wrong, they are also deemed easier to replace. So when you factor these things into a free market situation, they command a lower salary.

Their marginal return is also seen as less of a difference maker than other positions. The diminishing returns of paying for the #1 RB rather than the #5 can be huge and very hard to justify unless a team just wants the star power.

In most cases, RB by committee can be almost as effective (if not moreso) for a fraction of the cost and also a fraction of the injury risk.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

The Eagles won a SB with a running back crew of Blount, Clement, Ajayi

The Patriots have won multiple SBs with a hodge podge at TB.

Here's another exercise. List for us the 5-7 best TBs in football. How many have won Super Bowls? The evidence seems to go the other way than what you claim. Teams that don't pay a ton of money to TBs seem to be more successful than teams that do.

PHI and NE both have shown you don't have to have an elite RB to have a really good running game. If you have an Elite OL and even just a good RB, you'll get great results.

 

[quickccc]

PHI and NE both have shown you don't have to have an elite RB to have a really good running game. If you have an Elite OL and even just a good RB, you'll get great results.

I hear ya,
- but I dunno about comparing us to the NE Pats and their Hall of Fame QB and head coach, they are obvious exceptional to the entire NFL.
but with Philly ..and their backup QB ? can we count on our head coach, coaching staff and management that put together that philly team together so well and so quickly that allowed
to them to be put into a super bowl? ..

that's their established identity, we have to stay place with what works best within our identity and do what we do best.
- a good RB and a great OL can still make you effective but having a great RB + great OL, places you on an even higher level to where DC's have to have sleepless nights and have to devise and alter
how they have to play you against, and they can only try to challenge you so much. the great players tend to change the dynamics. - and it capitalizes even further when you have great coaches
that know how to devise the best schemes and systems in place to better make players that much more effective.