The 3-4 solution

[waldoputty]

You have failed to snarfle the garfox.

sorry dont speak that language

 

[waldoputty]

for the Nth+1 time....you said it indoor original post and I quoted you. ...you mentioned Taco....

OMG....and if we don't know what we have based on 16 plays, why have a knee jerk reaction and propose a change to 3-4? help me understand....

second, you want to tank the season with Zeke, DaK, Witten, Dez, a great OL, a very good secondary a star in the making in Jaylon Smith, sean lee and hitchens...
so riddle me this coach.....how are you going to convince these guys to lay dead?
or do you expect the coach to make game plans so we lose? because I see no other option..... and then you want to fire the coach, for not doing good, but doing what you want him to do...wow...is that it?

sorry dude, but do you see the stupidity in your statement?

and now you are interested in dynasties. outside of NE, what other dynasties existed since 1990s cowboys? you are now spinning again.

so I will now bite and lets say you can to your senses and its not about Taco...ok, at least we got one thing changed and now established (perhaps until you flip again).

so where are those 240 lb Lbs (which is light btw), that have shown ability to rush the passer and were drafted in the late 20s?
regardless of what you think, a scheme alone doesn't make a great defense (or offense). it takes the right players and if its as easy as you say, why wouldn't every team have a great 3-4 defense?


and then in your next to last sentence you kind of confuse yourself and everybody else..... if we don't need a top 5 D, why change to 3-4? we already have a defense that's better than what we need according to you?

and lastly.... isn't your last statement true about every team who has a good offense? every defenses stats would be worse, if the offense sucked. would come off the field quickly. and the defense had to play a lot....just like two years ago... not sure what you were trying to accomplish with that last statement.....

you are sinking in quick sand.....

no kidding.
taco is part of the defense.
but no one knows how good or bad he is going to be.

we dont need a top 5 D.
would be nice, but our O is dominant.
change to a 3-4 D because our DL can generate 0 pressure so it sucks.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

the season failed as in the D cause us to be out of the playoffs because they can apply no pressure. try to remember what happened last year. or is your memory that short?

wow. so 5th scoring defense. 13th in sacks. top 15 in total defense...

so I assume you are talking about the Aaron rodgers last pass.... did you even see the play? or were you to drunk to remember. go back and look. it was a 3 MAN front with 8 dropping into coverage....Aaron had to roll out immediately and make the throw.....so its not about the DL applying pressure when you have a 3 man rush, which is what you are proposing!!!

come on waldo.... get hold of yourself.


and 20 pages of senseless argument, on one play from a sure HOF QB making a great all time play.... WOW

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

failure as in we still cannot get that player? why is that so hard to understand.

OK...but aren't you assuming that we can get that ONE PLAYER for a 3-4 defense.....based on what? you have provided nothing to back up your assumption....and its an assumption.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

yes the player that we cannot get for the last 4-5 years?
also that player that was not even available in FA last year.
or the player that the DC refuse to incorporate because he does not play in his 4-3 system?

how long have you been a cowboys fan?

I have been a cowboys fan before you were born.....

and you are making assumptions that one great player, 3-4 player you keep touting is easily found....

and you still haven't provided any proof that its doable...and if its as easy as you assume because your re pissed at the first preseason game performance....why aren't there 32 teams doing ti and having great defenses....again. you just said, its easy to do..... and we should do it...or are you telling me you are smarter than 32 owners, coaches, DCs and GMs?

and Jimmy johnson...the great jimmy johnson couldn't find his player and he went and found one in FA.......he didn't switch to 3-4 defense that Aikman was having so much problems with it...

you are scatter shooting

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

no kidding.
taco is part of the defense.
but no one knows how good or bad he is going to be.

we dont need a top 5 D.
would be nice, but our O is dominant.
change to a 3-4 D because our DL can generate 0 pressure so it sucks.

you just contradicted yourself in your response. please read your responses before your respond...you are not looking very good right now.

so you just said.....you don't need a top 5 D...but we have one...

and once you say its not about taco...yet you talked about Taco again....

and we should switch to 3-4 defense to generate pass rush....so that we can get what? a top 5 D? but then you said we don't need a top 5 D.....you are going in circles...chasing your own tail

and again...PROOF. we had 36 sacks last year....good for 13th in the league....top team had 48. average of less than one a game more!!!!

again...you are scatter shooting thoughts...there is no cohesion in your responses...

you are sinking in quick sand.

you just can't get over the fact that Aaron rodgers made a freak all time play. by inches..he is a HOF QB with two superbowls.....

and again...watch that last play..... we were rushing 3 DL men...dropping 8 into coverage.... which is a prevent defense.....

 

[Alexander]

You have failed to snarfle the garfox.

sorry dont speak that language

Don't feel bad, waldo.

Fuzzy Wuzzy messed up the pop culture reference.

Usually it is referred to as Garthok.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Gnarfle the Garthok

Or even

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=narfle the garthog

No "garfox".

Must be another peril of that darn spell check or voice recognition gone awry.

 

[haleyrules]

All Cowboy SB's have been won with the 4-3.

 

[Alexander]

All Cowboy SB's have been won with the 4-3.

This is a game of recency not primacy.

In the last ten years in the Super Bowl, the scorecard shows this:

2007 - 4-3
2008 - 4-3
2009 - 3-4
2010 - 4-3
2011 - 3-4
2012 - 4-3
2013 - 3-4
2014 - Hybrid
2015 - 3-4
2016 - 3-4
2017 - Hybrid

I don't think what the Cowboys did in the early 1990s or 1970s relates.

 

[waldoputty]

sorry everyone. dinner time. come back later to play with you.

 

[xwalker]

well i thought Collins have played both 3tech and 1tech well.
so i think he may be an option at NT.
obviously would want to draft one.

again this assume 2017 was a failed year, so none of the DLs are that valuable.

so you dont think jaylon would be good in a 3-4?
i think he weighs about 250 now and is much stronger.

i hear you about lee and it did make me think twice.
but ilb in 3-4 may not be as physically tough as mlb in 4-3?

what i am suggesting would involving tapper rushing say 80% of the time.
the jaylon and the drafted/signed olb rushing a lot of the time.

taco is going to have to get stronger in whatever position.
he looks like he has the frame for it.
i think playing end in the 3-4 would be less challenging than in the 4-3.

by getting a NT and a rush OLB, look at how much flexiblity you add.
you can play the NT as a 1-tech when you want to shift to a 4-3.
tapper can shift between DE and OLB.

the RDE in 2017 may already be standing up a la Seattle LEO.
so all this is adding is having him hop between different gaps and lining the DL perhaps differently.

If they were that desperate it would be easier to just bring Greg Hardy back...

 

[waldoputty]

If they were that desperate it would be easier to just bring Greg Hardy back...

lol whatever works.
i dont care what it is.
but hardy is probably suspended from the stuff he did?

 

[waldoputty]

Don't feel bad, waldo.

Fuzzy Wuzzy messed up the pop culture reference.

Usually it is referred to as Garthok.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Gnarfle the Garthok

Or even

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=narfle the garthog

No "garfox".

Must be another peril of that darn spell check or voice recognition gone awry.

thanks, i guess it is my fault for not watching tv

 

[waldoputty]

wow. so 5th scoring defense. 13th in sacks. top 15 in total defense...

so I assume you are talking about the Aaron rodgers last pass.... did you even see the play? or were you to drunk to remember. go back and look. it was a 3 MAN front with 8 dropping into coverage....Aaron had to roll out immediately and make the throw.....so its not about the DL applying pressure when you have a 3 man rush, which is what you are proposing!!!

come on waldo.... get hold of yourself.


and 20 pages of senseless argument, on one play from a sure HOF QB making a great all time play.... WOW

3 man rush and no one who can apply pressure.
and the defense had lots of trouble applying pressure.
not just one play.
and sorry, but i dont drink
the defense stats were buoyed by the dominant defense.
if you dont know that, i dont know how to help you.

 

[waldoputty]

OK...but aren't you assuming that we can get that ONE PLAYER for a 3-4 defense.....based on what? you have provided nothing to back up your assumption....and its an assumption.

do you follow the draft?
do you not know the blue chip DEs are taken first?
and there are LBs still available later in the round.
apply logic much?
i am not going to do your search for you.
do a little research first ?

 

[waldoputty]

you just contradicted yourself in your response. please read your responses before your respond...you are not looking very good right now.

so you just said.....you don't need a top 5 D...but we have one...

and once you say its not about taco...yet you talked about Taco again....

and we should switch to 3-4 defense to generate pass rush....so that we can get what? a top 5 D? but then you said we don't need a top 5 D.....you are going in circles...chasing your own tail

and again...PROOF. we had 36 sacks last year....good for 13th in the league....top team had 48. average of less than one a game more!!!!

again...you are scatter shooting thoughts...there is no cohesion in your responses...

you are sinking in quick sand.

you just can't get over the fact that Aaron rodgers made a freak all time play. by inches..he is a HOF QB with two superbowls.....

and again...watch that last play..... we were rushing 3 DL men...dropping 8 into coverage.... which is a prevent defense.....

we dont need a top 5 defense.
go ahead and think you have a top 5 defense last year.
what a joke.

taco is a part of the defense that no one can project at this point.
so what?

this thread is based on one scenario, that the D fails us again then switch to a 3-4.
if the D does not fail us because the players (including Taco) progresses, then no need to switch to a 3-4.
is that so tough to understand.
it is a h-y-p-o-t-h-e-t-i-c-a-l
do you understand what that means?
here is a link that can help you in case you need help: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypothetical
i guess it takes some imagination, but i do give cowboys fans the benefit of doubt.

wow we had 36 sacks last year.
proof
wonderful.
our defense, particularly the DL, was pathetic last year.
if you think our DL was a top DL, I dont know how to help you.
if you do not know the defense stats were boosted by the dominant O then I dont know how to help you.
starting to feel like i am chatting with an eagles fan instead of a cowboys fan.

finally GB scored 34 points, not 7 points.
it was not one play, it was most of the game.
our D could not stop them, or any team with a balance top offense like the Steelers.

sure we were playing prevent in the last play.
we did a lot of that because we had no pass rush.
because your 'top 5' defense's DL sucks.

 

[Verdict]

There is nothing, zero, zilch, nada that suggests the 4-3 is superior to the 3-4.

What the problem is the ability to find pass rushers. That is the one thing that needs to be considered and weighed when deciding how the scheme should run. Not hurt feelings over what happened with Rob Ryan. He was horrific and has been proven horrific. It was not the 3-4, it was him. And if people want to run down the 3-4 because it did not pay off in spades with Parcells or Phillips, I give you the Dave Campo era and even the fruitless signing of Marcellus Wiley, looking for that great pass rusher.

Plain and simple, the better pass rushers and the more plentiful are undersized OLB types.

If you want this 4-3 juggernaut Bruce Smith type or even a Mario Williams type for that matter means you are drafting in the top ten to get one. And as we saw with Williams, well, that did not do much to turn the flow for the Texans.

Undersized pass rushers almost always carry the label and are picked apart, because everyone is looking for the 6-5, 270 lb. college player who can step into the pros and dominate.

You better be really bad to get a shot at one that fits the preferred role.

Otherwise you will end up drafting the Greg Ellis and Ebenezer Ekubans over the period of two to three years and end up with nothing.

Quality pass rushers do not fit the prototype that we took in Charlton. It is just that simple.

The colleges simply are not growing them big like they used to.

The other alternative is to have a hybrid system like many teams use. The schemes are variant and a good mind can manufacture pressure instead of wish upon a star you get that one stud pass rusher which basically like a unicorn at this stage. You can look up and down the line at the better sack artists in this league. They are not the prototypical. They also went to teams that used either the 3-4 or a flex scheme that utlitzed the talent coming from the college game.

It requires a creative defensive mind, and certainly is not someone like Rod Marinelli who can do just enough to get by but will need perfect fits to make the system work.

That is because he does not believe in generating pressure in any other way than the front four. You can draft all the zone corners you want and it won't matter. You can also use the excuse of picking late in the round to dismiss the fact you are trying to get blood out of a turnip looking for the 4-3 War Daddy.

The limitation of most 3-4 defenses are that they seem pretty weak against the run.

 

[waldoputty]

The limitation of most 3-4 defenses are that they seem pretty weak against the run.

i thought some here said the 3-4 was better against the run.
there has been so many posts i cannot keep track of who said what.

 

[Verdict]

Here's a question ( or two lol ) for posters bashing the OP ideal. What's the answer to getting more sacks or qb pressures in 4-3 / Tampa 2 scheme? We've not seen high level pass rush or pressure since 2012, a year BEFORE DeMarcus Ware was released ( last year under the 3-4 ). Not sure how many remember, but according to Jason Garrett, we fired Rob Ryan and brought in Monte Kiffin and Tampa 2 before the 2012 season for one reason ....... create more turnovers. Ware struggled his first and only year in the 4-3 and of course was released. Fast forward to 2014 playoff loss against the Packers ( one-legged Rogers ate defense alive ) and note Stephen Jones even said immediately after the loss, finding a pass rusher will be a top priority for 2015. Hell Jerry even admitted in an article earlier this year, finding an ELITE pass rusher is hard coz they're hard to draft ( outside top 10 picks ) and teams do not trade or release the good ones. As we all know -and mention by the OP- one main reason Parcell favored the 3-4 they are easier to draft. If you go back look at last pre-draft evaluations, most of the pass rush specialist were in the 250ish range ( exact range for Ware and Von Miller ). Without putting words in the OP mouth, I think the main point(s) he's trying to make is we are now in 2017, FOUR YEARS into the 4-3 /Tampa 2 and are no closer to having the answer than before we left the 3-4. .

Many posters say a move back ISN'T the answer and I tend to agree, somewhat but then what is? Trade? Pressing your luck drafting one at the bottom of earlier rounds? Remember any top 4-3 DE is coming off the board within the first 10 picks, a range we hope to be nowhere near. Free agency? ( highly unlikely to find an elite and if we do, I don't see Stephen spending $75-100M to sign one).

The point is many are dismissing even the thought what the OP is saying but it's a fact this defense has struggled to find consistent sacks and pressure since leaving the 3-4. Of course not saying it CAN'T be done. Just for whatever reason, coaches and FO have struggled to fix this unit.

It is damn near impossible to find a really good 4-3 right DE. We tried several times with Pittman, Carver, Ekuban, Ellis and of course Almost Anthony Spencer. I think all of those guys were FIRST round picks. None of them were awe inspiring.

I'm not suggesting that we go to a 3-4 but it seems damn near impossible for us to find a guy like D. Ware. They just don't come along very often.

I appreciate the Cowboys efforts to find one, but a guy like Tapper in the 4th round seems just as likely to be the war daddy as Taco.

 

[waldoputty]

It is damn near impossible to find a really good 4-3 right DE. We tried several times with Pittman, Carver, Ekuban, Ellis and of course Almost Anthony Spencer. I think all of those guys were FIRST round picks. None of them were awe inspiring.

I'm not suggesting that we go to a 3-4 but it seems damn near impossible for us to find a guy like D. Ware. They just don't come along very often.

I appreciate the Cowboys efforts to find one, but a guy like Tapper in the 4th round seems just as likely to be the war daddy as Taco.

come to the dark side

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