The 3-4 solution

[waldoputty]

loci - that is made of butter!

 

[waldoputty]

19 pages on something that will literally not happen.

Must be the Zone during the off-season.

20 pages

 

[Ranching]

? well I am a little confused...here is your original post and I quote.
"We are all hoping Taco plays like Hardy or Bosa.
His physical traits are pretty much equal or in some ways little better.

However, if he does not pan out, what do we do.
I think the 3-4 may be the solution."

so now you change your premise that it doesn't have to do with the 16 plays (total of his plays in first preseason game)....so is it about Taco or not?
so which is it. your original post? or this one? or you are changing on the fly because you lost track of your argument? or you just want to argue something differently?

and you say this thread is in the event the DL sucks. well, this was the same premise we changed from 3-4 to 4-3? now we want to change back because we can't figure out what to do?
so lets flip flop and hope for the best?

and who says Crawford was playing fine in the 3-4? your defensive expertise? the problem was the 3-4 DL wasn't good. and we weren't doing good in 3-4 so we changed to 4-3.
now you want to put the same player that wasn't working in the 3-4, back in a 3-4, because he has the height weight ratio that you want to have for a 3-4 DE?

and I read your posts....you haven't made a case... you just mention over and over again, that Taco is 280 and should balk up to 290 and that Crawford is already in that range, so he fits the size ratio for a 3-4 DE, so he must be good at it, because God knows he played it before, regardless if he sucked in it. you justify that by saying, 3-4 DEs are useless bodies anyway (unless you look at JJ Watt!!).

and which talent is available in our draft slot? how do you know what draft slot? and how do you know which player? you are just basing that on last year's draft and TJ Watt being drafted in the 30th spot and you have not even seen him play, yet you are assuming he is a great OLB that's going to be a good pass rusher.. ahhh, hmmm, aha..., we just draft a NT in the 2nd round or later. we got a couple of guys like Taco who has never played 3-4 DE and add 10 pounds to him and make him a 3-4 DE and in the 3-4 DEs don't matter. who cares...they are just bodies with size, weight ration and that's all that matters.

yet, your original proposal is the if the 4-3 DL sucks...we switch to a 3-4 DL and we just put bodies there, make a lot of assumptions and end up with another sucky DL, because its all about the OLB in 3-4 and and that they are dime a dozen in the draft....right?

and I go back to my original response to your post.

why the knee jerk reaction? off of one meaningless preseason game, where obviously your expectations were to dominate and in your mind we didn't and now, lets think about something out of the box, unnecessarily....

this was a 13-3 team. this defense has improved over the past 4 years, by adding pieces. last year they were 14th. yes, 26th in pass defense, but IMO, a lot had to do with secondary that was banged up and sucked really. and why do I say secondary? because we were 13th in sacks..... 5th in scoring defense.....let me repeat....5th IN SCORING DEFENSE

and again, this was a 13-3 team. why blow it up? why have a knee jerk reaction.

oh yeah...I get it...IF the DL sucks... then I guess if we are playing the IF game....can we say if this offense sucks, specifically IF Prescott sucks, lets not waste time....lets just trade dez, and look to trade zeke, because RBs are dime a dozen and we can get a good one in the 2nd round and below, trade our assets and move up to get a top QB, since next year's QB crop is supposed to be good, then trade up again and pick up another OL, prefereably another guard and build a better OL and anyone can run behind and we should fire garrett and linehan and switch to a west coast offense. that is IF that happens...ok fair enough. just a thought....because obviously the timing offense isn't working....that is if

Yes, you are a bit confused. This is all hypothipetical, and he's not talking about blowing up a 13-3 team. If we are 13-3 this year, there is no need for change.

 

[Corso]

20 pages

#Respect to you. Good conversation, in this bare beginnings of TC.

 

[waldoputty]

#Respect to you. Good conversation, in this bare beginnings of TC.

lol, tbh i really am a big fan of the 3-4 or say a 3-3-5 or even a 3-2-6 for passing downs.

 

[Corso]

lol, tbh i really am a big fan of the 3-4 or say a 3-3-5 or even a 3-2-6 for passing downs.

You are? I hadn't noticed...
I salute your devotion to that scheme. It's a good one.

 

[waldoputty]

You are? I hadn't noticed...
I salute your devotion to that scheme. It's a good one.

yes, really, i really am bro!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

for the Nth time, it is not about taco.
we have no idea what we have in taco for some time.
16 plays in the 1st game of preseason means little, unless he flat out dominated.

you may reject tanking, but i dont.
i am only interesting in dynasties, and i am fine with tanking is the way there.
superbowl dynasty or bust.

regarding size-weight, it is 240lb type football athletes that has shown the ability to rush the passer. i want several because you can rush from different gaps simultaneously, and the offense does not know which gap is being attacked/overwhelmed.

it has never been about a scoring defense. with our O, you dont need a top-5 D.

our D is carried by the O. i suspect their stats would be a lot worse without the O and the pressure it puts on the other team and the time it allows the D to rest.

for the Nth+1 time....you said it indoor original post and I quoted you. ...you mentioned Taco....

OMG....and if we don't know what we have based on 16 plays, why have a knee jerk reaction and propose a change to 3-4? help me understand....

second, you want to tank the season with Zeke, DaK, Witten, Dez, a great OL, a very good secondary a star in the making in Jaylon Smith, sean lee and hitchens...
so riddle me this coach.....how are you going to convince these guys to lay dead?
or do you expect the coach to make game plans so we lose? because I see no other option..... and then you want to fire the coach, for not doing good, but doing what you want him to do...wow...is that it?

sorry dude, but do you see the stupidity in your statement?

and now you are interested in dynasties. outside of NE, what other dynasties existed since 1990s cowboys? you are now spinning again.

so I will now bite and lets say you can to your senses and its not about Taco...ok, at least we got one thing changed and now established (perhaps until you flip again).

so where are those 240 lb Lbs (which is light btw), that have shown ability to rush the passer and were drafted in the late 20s?
regardless of what you think, a scheme alone doesn't make a great defense (or offense). it takes the right players and if its as easy as you say, why wouldn't every team have a great 3-4 defense?


and then in your next to last sentence you kind of confuse yourself and everybody else..... if we don't need a top 5 D, why change to 3-4? we already have a defense that's better than what we need according to you?

and lastly.... isn't your last statement true about every team who has a good offense? every defenses stats would be worse, if the offense sucked. would come off the field quickly. and the defense had to play a lot....just like two years ago... not sure what you were trying to accomplish with that last statement.....

you are sinking in quick sand.....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I say we scap the 4-3, no to the 3-4, and go with 11 db's. lol.

now, that's thinking outside the box...not a switch to 3-4 LOL

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

yes the player we could not get after 4-5 years of failure.
get 1 NT in round 2 and draft the passrush OLB in round 1 and sign 1 OLB.
fire marinelli and get a flexible DC -done

what failure? please qualify failure?

you are flailing and sinking in the quick sand.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

this thread is about changing schemes IF the season failed.
that means the 4-2-5 failed since i doubt our offense would fail.

wait....season failed? how? please qualify...

don't forget all your responses are on the thread and they need to be related to a common thought and obviously they are not.

based on what you said, the O helped the D....and we don't need a dominant D....so you had no issues with the O, and expect the O to be as good.....and again, you said (do you want me to quote you?) that we don't need a dominant D.... and how did the defense fail? they were top 5 defensive scoring, which is the ultimate goal...not sacks...getting 50 sacks and yet being in the bottom half of scoring defense is kind of defeats the goal of what defense is trying to do which is stopping the other team from scoring!!!!

so what's considered failure? oh, wait...not winning the Super Bowl.....so anything short Super Bowl...lets blow everything up!!! WOW

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

they can and that is fine.
i am not suggesting we NEVER play with a 4-man front again.

but when your passrush talent is in the LBs, do you still want 4 DL in a 3rd and long?
it is easier to draft the passrush LB than the passrush DL, and i think most of us agree with that.
do we want to be like marinelli who is so inflexible that he rather play his DBs in zone when they are better in man?

where is the pass rush talent in the LBs? and please provide some data to back up your assumption that's its easier to draft a pass rushing ROLB in the mid 20's that's going to be dominant.....

that's a simple minded assumption on your part

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

the simple reason for the 3-4 is it is easier to nail the OLB pass rusher than DE pass rusher.
i am not saying never play 4DL again - there is no need to be one or the other.
even marinelli has used 3DL and 2DL fronts.
but when it counts, i think the 3DL front is the one that can get the most pass rush talent from the draft and FA.
furthermore, the LBs can readily move among the gaps while the 4DL fronts depend more on stunts type stuff that take too long to develop.
as xwalker indicated, we are already having a DE standing up in some plays.
so we are already half way there.
just move that guy around and draft a LB passrusher in the first round and a NT in the second round
then in any play, we can select to rush any combination of the DE (as OLB), Jaylon and the 1st round pick from any gap.

again...I ask and you need to provide proof...where is it easier to find a pass rushing ROLB in late 20s...than a DE?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

right, and all i am saying is if this is not our year, tank some and get a better draft pick to make sure 2018 is the year of the star...
we are basically 1 player away.

ok, 1 player away...so lets switch schemes, play fantasy football and move players around based on size and weight and assume that its easy to find a 3-4 pass rushing OLB in the mid 20s.....

and remember....mr. waldo....the guy who wants a dynasty..... Jimmy Johnson built a dynasty...he couldn't find his pass rushing DE from the high number of draft picks he had and he had many...so he went and got that ONE player through FA....he didn't blow up the team and go to a 3-4....wouldn't it make more sense for example to say, if taco and tapper don't work out, its time to throw money at the RDE and get a high priced FA and given we are that ONE player away....we just move forward....

didn't the Giants recently just do that!!!!

HOLY COW...what a way to think outside the box

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Why would you want Collins at NT if the goal is to keep him away from double-teams?

Do you understand the position he plays now? 3-tech DT? The design of Marinelli's DL scheme is to keep the 3-tech from facing double-teams. That's why the line is shifted to the right. The 3-tech is between the OT and OG, away from the Center. The OT has to block the DE which leaves the 3-tech one-on-one against the OG.

If the OLB is always going to rush, then he's basically a 4-3 DE.

So the best way to deal with a player (Taco) that you're saying needs to get stronger is to put him at at position that requires stronger players than the position that he is currently playing?

They moved Lee to WLB from MLB to keep him from taking a beating from OLinemen. Both 3-4 ILBs are more like 4-3 MLB so he would be back to taking on blocks from OLinemen which didn't help him stay healthy in the past.

Jaylons' s weakest area when he was 100% healthy was taking on and shedding blocks. He is much more skilled at running around blocks, playing in coverage and pass rushing. Making him a 3-4 ILB forces him to take on more blocks than playing MLB in a 4-3 and gives him less chances to shine as in pass coverage or as a pass rusher.

I see literally Zero players that would benefit from playing in a 3-4.

the problem is he doesn't understand...he doesn't even understand the 3-4 and as he said, its based on his memory from Aikman era and his supposed problems with 3-4....

and the one thing he has failed to explain...if its as easy as he says...shouldn't we have 32 top notch 3-4 defenses in the league...just throw a couple of 290 lb DE in there...since they don't really matter in a 3-4 (ask JJ Watt) and then draft a big fat Nt 2nd round an below...just grab a few 240 lb LBs and put it all in a bucket...shake well and you got a dominant defense..... LOL

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Only question I have is if fish is being ironic on purpose.

 

[waldoputty]

what failure? please qualify failure?

you are flailing and sinking in the quick sand.

failure as in we still cannot get that player? why is that so hard to understand.

 

[waldoputty]

wait....season failed? how? please qualify...

don't forget all your responses are on the thread and they need to be related to a common thought and obviously they are not.

based on what you said, the O helped the D....and we don't need a dominant D....so you had no issues with the O, and expect the O to be as good.....and again, you said (do you want me to quote you?) that we don't need a dominant D.... and how did the defense fail? they were top 5 defensive scoring, which is the ultimate goal...not sacks...getting 50 sacks and yet being in the bottom half of scoring defense is kind of defeats the goal of what defense is trying to do which is stopping the other team from scoring!!!!

so what's considered failure? oh, wait...not winning the Super Bowl.....so anything short Super Bowl...lets blow everything up!!! WOW

the season failed as in the D cause us to be out of the playoffs because they can apply no pressure. try to remember what happened last year. or is your memory that short?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

failure as in we still cannot get that player? why is that so hard to understand.

You have failed to snarfle the garfox.

 

[waldoputty]

ok, 1 player away...so lets switch schemes, play fantasy football and move players around based on size and weight and assume that its easy to find a 3-4 pass rushing OLB in the mid 20s.....

and remember....mr. waldo....the guy who wants a dynasty..... Jimmy Johnson built a dynasty...he couldn't find his pass rushing DE from the high number of draft picks he had and he had many...so he went and got that ONE player through FA....he didn't blow up the team and go to a 3-4....wouldn't it make more sense for example to say, if taco and tapper don't work out, its time to throw money at the RDE and get a high priced FA and given we are that ONE player away....we just move forward....

didn't the Giants recently just do that!!!!

HOLY COW...what a way to think outside the box

yes the player that we cannot get for the last 4-5 years?
also that player that was not even available in FA last year.
or the player that the DC refuse to incorporate because he does not play in his 4-3 system?

how long have you been a cowboys fan?