The case for going for Lawrence

[cern]

Well, if this is your opinion, you are welcome to it. However, you know not what you are talking about. You have a window. It's about 2 years, maybe. You have either not payed attention to the conversation or are willingly making the decision to simply ignore the facts of what has been said or discussed.

We've already qualified the fact that the contract must be longer term and stated that Dak would need to accept that. Well, defend your position, what proof can you show that this is what Dak and his camp are willing to do? I'll go a step further, Dak is not Mahomes so even if you can sign him to such a deal, he's still not that guy. But, lets go ahead and put aside all of the short comings on your position. Lets assume Dak will accept a 10 year deal, as you seem to suggest above, lets all act like idiots and just say that he will sign up for that, even though his representation has made it crystal clear that this is not their plan, lets assume this is so. How are you going to fix the Defense in the time you have left?

I'm willing to listen to reason.

who is representing him now? do you know whether or not dak will stick with the agent or the agency. (france vs caa) show your proof that dak would not be amenable to a mahomes contract. dak swung for the fences last year, and as a result got tagged. don't even know about his last ditch efforts to call jerry and get things worked out in the end. you have a scenario in your mind that you think is 100% correct and any opinions to the contrary are wrong. but you have absolutely nothing in the way of proof to substantiate your opinion. as for fixing the defense, i already explained it. sign dak and draft defensive players. it's not hard, really.

 

[mardwin]

Here is the case..

He’s cheap and he’s a transcendent talent.

The Jets or Jags will draft the guy. We are going to be stuck with Dak.

 

[CouchCoach]

No, you can't. All of this looks great on a message board but there is no guarantee you get any of the players you outline here and futher, they may not turn out to be players at all. So what then? Secondly, no, it doesn't look a lot better. How are you going to draft guys and expect them to just magically produce at a high level in the NFL in their Rookie and Soph year? As I said before, in two more seasons, you start seeing the window close. What are you going to do then?

You talk a lot, you bring up 35 mil but oh wait, the team offered him 35 mil and he turned it down so what now? As I have said, over and over, you can't do a deal a player won't sign.

So tell me, how exactly do you get that part done if the player won't sign?

And where is that player's head now that they didn't do the long term deal and he got injured? Think he didn't want to pull an Earl Thomas as he was being carted off the field?

Some feel those were tears from the pain but I do not. I think he looked at that injury and didn't know if he'd ever play again and he still doesn't know what it's going to feel like and not just physically but mentally. I think it's stupid that they're even talking about his future with the Cowboys at this point, they don't really know what he'll want yet. And we don't know that he even wants to remain a Cowboy. Is his stock on the market up or down after seeing the team without him?

 

[RonnieT24]

If you are going to pay a QB that kind of money, he better be a QB that doesn't require All Pro talent and record setting money at all position to win ball games. He better be the guy who can drive the team to wins with lessor talent and excellent coaching. That is how you win with those guys and we've seen that it can be done. But you can't win if you are cap strapped and playing with only a few players.

It is what it is. To be honest, I am tired of trying to educate fans on what years of football show us. They will either figure it out or not. They surely will not listen to the knowledge or experience of those who have watched this team for 40 or 50 years.

I'm sorry but please run me down the list of QBs who have won the Super Bowl with no talent around them? Not long ago teams could be so good in other areas they could carry crappy QBs to a Super Bowl win as long as he wasn't a turnover machine.. See Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer, Flacco, Eli and that ilk. Free agency has made that increasingly more difficult in the modern era because it's really hard to put together a good enough defense to carry an inept offense and every OC has heard the talking heads tell them "it's a passing league" for the last 20 years so nobody builds a great running game anymore. Well not nobody.. but very few teams do. Ironically in just the last 20 years we have seen a number of teams win it all with defense and the running game.. the Ravens twice, the Giants twice, the Steelers twice, the Seahawks, the Broncos with noodle arm Peyton and the Bucs. Even the 2018 Pats used defense to win it, though their running game was less than dominant. But it surprises me as I type this that just typed in 10 times off the top of my head who won it all with defense and the running game and just okay QB play. Or in some cases downright crappy QB play like Big Ben in his first SB or Peyton in his last. Dak Prescott was playing better than any of the QBs of those teams this year. Including 2018 Brady. Yet people continually trot out this narrative that Dak isn't good enough. Put Dak on any of those teams and they still win the Super Bowl.. in some cases by a larger margin. That's why I laugh at the "he's not good enough" crowd. Guys not near as good as him have gotten it done. Give him a serviceable defense.. the one that showed up against the Eagles and Steelers and this team is 8-1 and printing home playoff tickets.

You also keep repeating that "he turned down 35 million a year.." No actually he didn't, he turned down guaranteed money that was 25-30 million less than his contemporaries got.. He has been better than both Goff and Wentz and did not deserve to be offered that much less than them. Period.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So. You are saying the rookie cant come in and make an impact. But want to draft a QB? Who is also a rookie. Interesting.

He didnt turn down 35. He turned down the duration and came to a deal as the deadline closed. The deal is already done. You just have to live with it.

I am saying that we need one QB. We need a number of Defensive players. So tell me again, what are the odds that you can draft a bunch of Defensive players that come in and transform this defense into a top 10 unit in the NFL in two seasons? I mean, this is really not tough but you insist upon trying to make it so. OK then, explain how you do this.

35 doesn't work unless you have the time to spread it out so as not to impact the cap. Good lord, you are done. You are not honest in your discussions and you are only here to regurgitate what has been explained on this board, over and over, specifically to you, by many.

Simply put, my time is more valuable then that and you are not going to waste it.

Make the numbers work in 4 years, I dare you.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

who is representing him now? do you know whether or not dak will stick with the agent or the agency. (france vs caa) show your proof that dak would not be amenable to a mahomes contract. dak swung for the fences last year, and as a result got tagged. don't even know about his last ditch efforts to call jerry and get things worked out in the end. you have a scenario in your mind that you think is 100% correct and any opinions to the contrary are wrong. but you have absolutely nothing in the way of proof to substantiate your opinion. as for fixing the defense, i already explained it. sign dak and draft defensive players. it's not hard, really.

There has been no public statement from either side that CAA is not still Dak's representation but lets say somebody else is. Lets go ahead and go down that path, even though there is no proof it is true, and lets talk. Do you honestly think that Dak is coming down from his demands with somebody else representing him? Is this what you think?

I can logically explain why I don't see this as a reasonable position and why I think he will continue down the path he started and I've done it on this board many times. However, I've never seen you do this So I ask you, what makes you think that he will come down on his offer?

 

[CATCH17]

The Jets or Jags will draft the guy. We are going to be stuck with Dak.

Move mountains..

I think the Jets can be convinced to team build around Darnold.

Offer them our 1 and Lamb if needed.

It becomes a lot easier for this trade to happen if Lawrence is saying he will sit out a year. We need pick 2 tho.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm sorry but please run me down the list of QBs who have won the Super Bowl with no talent around them? Not long ago teams could be so good in other areas they could carry crappy QBs to a Super Bowl win as long as he wasn't a turnover machine.. See Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer, Flacco, Eli and that ilk. Free agency has made that increasingly more difficult in the modern era because it's really hard to put together a good enough defense to carry an inept offense and every OC has heard the talking heads tell them "it's a passing league" for the last 20 years so nobody builds a great running game anymore. Well not nobody.. but very few teams do. Ironically in just the last 20 years we have seen a number of teams win it all with defense and the running game.. the Ravens twice, the Giants twice, the Steelers twice, the Seahawks, the Broncos with noodle arm Peyton and the Bucs. Even the 2018 Pats used defense to win it, though their running game was less than dominant. But it surprises me as I type this that just typed in 10 times off the top of my head who won it all with defense and the running game and just okay QB play. Or in some cases downright crappy QB play like Big Ben in his first SB or Peyton in his last. Dak Prescott was playing better than any of the QBs of those teams this year. Including 2018 Brady. Yet people continually trot out this narrative that Dak isn't good enough. Put Dak on any of those teams and they still win the Super Bowl.. in some cases by a larger margin. That's why I laugh at the "he's not good enough" crowd. Guys not near as good as him have gotten it done. Give him a serviceable defense.. the one that showed up against the Eagles and Steelers and this team is 8-1 and printing home playoff tickets.

You also keep repeating that "he turned down 35 million a year.." No actually he didn't, he turned down guaranteed money that was 25-30 million less than his contemporaries got.. He has been better than both Goff and Wentz and did not deserve to be offered that much less than them. Period.

Run me down a list of QBs who are getting paid 40 mil annually on a 4 year deal. I mean, fair is fair right?

 

[RonnieT24]

And where is that player's head now that they didn't do the long term deal and he got injured? Think he didn't want to pull an Earl Thomas as he was being carted off the field?

Some feel those were tears from the pain but I do not. I think he looked at that injury and didn't know if he'd ever play again and he still doesn't know what it's going to feel like and not just physically but mentally. I think it's stupid that they're even talking about his future with the Cowboys at this point, they don't really know what he'll want yet. And we don't know that he even wants to remain a Cowboy. Is his stock on the market up or down after seeing the team without him?

You did a lot of mind reading from your couch there.. Dak is not the jerk Earl Thomas is.. not even close Those tears were not from pain at least not physical pain.. It has been reported that the pain subsides almost immediately once they reset the joint and apply the air cast. Anybody who has lost something they love knows exactly why he was crying. He loves the game.. He loves competing.. he loves his brothers on the team.. and he knew at that moment that at least for the rest of the season he was not going to be able to help them. Not going to be able to play the game he has loved since he was 5 years old.

As for his stock? Sure the injury raises a question.. but it's one that will be answered within the first few hours of his first OTA he can participate in. And the way the team has performed without him? I don't think that is a question that even needs and answer. We all have eyes..

 

[cern]

There has been no public statement from either side that CAA is not still Dak's representation but lets say somebody else is. Lets go ahead and go down that path, even though there is no proof it is true, and lets talk. Do you honestly think that Dak is coming down from his demands with somebody else representing him? Is this what you think?

I can logically explain why I don't see this as a reasonable position and why I think he will continue down the path he started and I've done it on this board many times. However, I've never seen you do this So I ask you, what makes you think that he will come down on his offer?

the key is the cowboys have an option for 2021. they can tag him again. dak has no leverage but to bet on himself again, but that worked out poorly last year. true, he gets his fully guaranteed 31 million. but he's lost out on what would have been a lucrative signing bonus/guaranteed check. he might not want to take that risk again. he rolled the dice once and lost. are you certain he's willing to do it two years in a row?
i have no idea who will be his agent for the 2021 negotiations. i brought up the point to see whether or not you knew. seems you don't. so how can you speak for his agents state of mind when you don't even know who they will be?
dak wanted a short term 4 year deal so he could renegotiate again after the new tv deals. now he's lost a year of that time. will he want a 3 year deal now? he might, but he won't get it. he now knows there is a line drawn in the sand and he has a better understanding of the all important pie. i think it gets done and we draft defense. simple as that.

 

[quickccc]

Burrows,Hubert or Dak?
Who in the right mind would choose Dak at 35+ million a year with a gimp leg?
If the losses allow for it we are going QB big time in the draft!
P.S. Ok so Dak has won us a Superbowl and has in the playoffs ever year but is that enough for him to get a new deal?

No.1 offense in NFL in yards in 2019 and averaged 27 points per game , ..and Dak was well on his way in 2020 for similar numbers.
And gimpy leg ? ..LOL .. you act like he's gonna be going into 2021 half cripple with a non healed leg fracture.
He's reportedly already ahead of schedule. That won't even be a factor.

 

[RonnieT24]

Run me down a list of QBs who are getting paid 40 mil annually on a 4 year deal. I mean, fair is fair right?

I don't know of any QBs who have asked for that soooo.. Dak and his agent asked for 35 a year for 4 years.. with comparale guarantees to what Goff and Wentz got. The Joneses countered with 35 a year for 5 years... reportedly with a guaranteed money amount in the 70 million range. The reports that came out in July was that at the last minute the Joneses upped the guaranteed money to the Goff/Wentz level and Dak's camp accepted the 5 year deal. Where they failed was on the structure of the contract. Likely the Joneses were still trying to get some cap relief in the next 2-3 years and Dak's agent was not playing ball.. But as with all of this none of it has been made public so we are all going by third and fourth hand information. The only thing we know for sure is that the Joneses stated on multiple occasions that they were NOT letting Dak out of their hands. Despite all the "they don't believe in him" and "they are not sold on him" noise they offered him over 100 million dollars guaranteed on a 5 year deal. If that's not believing, I'd hate to see how much money they'd pay a guy they actually believed in.

 

[CouchCoach]

You did a lot of mind reading from your couch there.. Dak is not the jerk Earl Thomas is.. not even close Those tears were not from pain at least not physical pain.. It has been reported that the pain subsides almost immediately once they reset the joint and apply the air cast. Anybody who has lost something they love knows exactly why he was crying. He loves the game.. He loves competing.. he loves his brothers on the team.. and he knew at that moment that at least for the rest of the season he was not going to be able to help them. Not going to be able to play the game he has loved since he was 5 years old.

As for his stock? Sure the injury raises a question.. but it's one that will be answered within the first few hours of his first OTA he can participate in. And the way the team has performed without him? I don't think that is a question that even needs and answer. We all have eyes..

That's where I do my best mind reading.

 

[CouchCoach]

the key is the cowboys have an option for 2021. they can tag him again. dak has no leverage but to bet on himself again, but that worked out poorly last year. true, he gets his fully guaranteed 31 million. but he's lost out on what would have been a lucrative signing bonus/guaranteed check. he might not want to take that risk again. he rolled the dice once and lost. are you certain he's willing to do it two years in a row?
i have no idea who will be his agent for the 2021 negotiations. i brought up the point to see whether or not you knew. seems you don't. so how can you speak for his agents state of mind when you don't even know who they will be?
dak wanted a short term 4 year deal so he could renegotiate again after the new tv deals. now he's lost a year of that time. will he want a 3 year deal now? he might, but he won't get it. he now knows there is a line drawn in the sand and he has a better understanding of the all important pie. i think it gets done and we draft defense. simple as that.

That option might not be as easy as you think. This one didn't turn out well and could have been much worse with the majority of blame falling on the Joneses for not getting the deal done.

The public image is important to the Joneses because they're the only management people in it and Dak is well liked by the fans and his teammates so they could become the heavy in this little drama quickly and I do not see that happening. They will do the longer term deal with him because when in the spotlight, that's the right thing to do.

They also get a pass from a lot of fence straddlers for signing him that have seen the team sans Prescott and it ain't pretty. I've seen a lot of "whatever, just get the deal done" reaction to this.

The bottom line to all of this is the same for me. I will never see this franchise in the SB again in my lifetime, good thing I am not a SB or bust fan.

And I get a kick out of the "we're only a few players away" fans. You can say that about almost every team but this one never gets those few players.

 

[phildadon86]

I am saying that we need one QB. We need a number of Defensive players. So tell me again, what are the odds that you can draft a bunch of Defensive players that come in and transform this defense into a top 10 unit in the NFL in two seasons? I mean, this is really not tough but you insist upon trying to make it so. OK then, explain how you do this.

35 doesn't work unless you have the time to spread it out so as not to impact the cap. Good lord, you are done. You are not honest in your discussions and you are only here to regurgitate what has been explained on this board, over and over, specifically to you, by many.

Simply put, my time is more valuable then that and you are not going to waste it.

Make the numbers work in 4 years, I dare you.

No. Not by many. By a few. The same few who dislike Dak for whatever reason. You can go ahead and believe your "time" is more valuable but you're on the same message board as I am. Please tell me. How have I been dishonest? lol. By stating my opinions?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

the key is the cowboys have an option for 2021. they can tag him again. dak has no leverage but to bet on himself again, but that worked out poorly last year. true, he gets his fully guaranteed 31 million. but he's lost out on what would have been a lucrative signing bonus/guaranteed check. he might not want to take risk again. he rolled the dice once and lost. are you certain he's willing to do it two years in a row?
i have no idea who will be his agent for the 2021 negotiations. i brought up the point to see whether or not you knew. seems you don't. so how can you speak for his agents state of mind when you don't even know who they will be?
dak wanted a short term 4 year deal so he could renegotiate again after the new tv deals. now he's lost a year of that time. will he want a 3 year deal now? he might, but he won't get it. he now knows there is a line drawn in the sand and he has a better understanding of the all important pie. i think it gets done and we draft defense. simple as that.

Are you certain he is not and have you actually looked at what it might cost to franchise him, yet again? What is the result of the team, tagging Dak and Dak not signing? What is the draw back for Dak if he doesn't sign? He has already made enough money, in just this year, to afford to sit out the next season. He could easily use the excuse that he is not fully healed or simply play out the injury over the season and we would be out another 38 mil under a reduced cap and suffer even more. What are the ramifications for the team if he does that? The team would have one additional year of cap available to them at a price of 144% of the original number or the average of the top 5 position player contracts, whichever is higher and then Dak is an UFA and there is nothing the Cowboys can do about it. Incidentally, I believe that number, for another tagged season would be in excess of 44 million, for the one additional season and then Dak is free and clear. What in the world would stop Dak from simply taking this path? Does it make sense to you to do this? Do you see any sensible path for the Cowboys and Dak, if it gets to this point? So again I ask, have you really looked at how this plays out?

As to his representation, I have already answered that question and it is easily verifiable but then, one would have to actually want to get an answer to that question.

CAA is his representation and no public announcement has been made, by either CAA or Dak, to contradict this. Dak is currently being represented by Tom Condon, who is the replacement for Todd France. Dak signed a contract with CAA. He did not sign a contract with France so legally, CAA holds the rights and who can say what the details of that contract are. This really should have answered the question you asked but since you feel as if it went unanswered, there is the complete answer for you. CAA is his representation and Tom Condon is his agent, at this point.

 

[JJHLH1]

Trevor Lawrence is a nice college QB but he will likely be a downgrade from Dak, and might end up being as bad as Wentz and Trubisky.

We should trade down and accumulate as much talent on defense and the OL as we can.

Our needs are too great at multiple spots to risk drafting a QB.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't know of any QBs who have asked for that soooo.. Dak and his agent asked for 35 a year for 4 years.. with comparale guarantees to what Goff and Wentz got. The Joneses countered with 35 a year for 5 years... reportedly with a guaranteed money amount in the 70 million range. The reports that came out in July was that at the last minute the Joneses upped the guaranteed money to the Goff/Wentz level and Dak's camp accepted the 5 year deal. Where they failed was on the structure of the contract. Likely the Joneses were still trying to get some cap relief in the next 2-3 years and Dak's agent was not playing ball.. But as with all of this none of it has been made public so we are all going by third and fourth hand information. The only thing we know for sure is that the Joneses stated on multiple occasions that they were NOT letting Dak out of their hands. Despite all the "they don't believe in him" and "they are not sold on him" noise they offered him over 100 million dollars guaranteed on a 5 year deal. If that's not believing, I'd hate to see how much money they'd pay a guy they actually believed in.

So there you go.

Incidentally, reports of a deal that was in the range of 35/36 with more up front guaranteed surfaced a full month before the deadline and subsequent reports of France and Prescott not responding to the offer, at all, were also being widely reported. So this idea that Dak and his camp didn't know until the last minute, I don't buy. I told everybody on this board, a year ago, that CAA and France and Dak would do exactly what they did. Nobody should be surprised about this and the idea that somehow Dak figured out, at the 12th hour that this is what was going on does not wash with me.

The team has consistently said that Dak is their guy but the money has to work and you can't make that money work on a 4 year deal. That's the problem and it's still the problem, which will only be exacerbated by the fact that we have a shrinking cap, which BTW, we were told would never happen. Whatever.........

The truth of the matter is that the representation responded with an idea that the money would have to be in the area of 40 annually if they accepted a 5 year deal. Well, that doesn't work so that's where we were all at and that's where it all landed. But I don't believe for a second that Dak didn't understand what the offer was, that he tried to get something done last minute and just ran out of time and all the rest. Dak absolutely knew and the team, well, they would have had every single contingency planned for whatever contract option Dak wanted, within the scope of the offer because that's how you do business. You don't get caught flat footed on a big deal. You plan for contingencies and you are prepared if you have to use them so that you don't lose a deal like this and look like idiots. People lose their jobs for stuff like this. How do I know this? Because that is the business I am in.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No. Not by many. By a few. The same few who dislike Dak for whatever reason. You can go ahead and believe your "time" is more valuable but you're on the same message board as I am. Please tell me. How have I been dishonest? lol. By stating my opinions?

My time is more valuable and if you don't believe that, then that's your lesson to learn. See you around.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Trevor Lawrence is a nice college QB but he will likely be a downgrade from Dak, and might end up being as bad as Wentz and Trubisky.

We should trade down and accumulate as much talent on defense and the OL as we can.

Our needs are too great at multiple spots to risk drafting a QB.

Out of curiosity, what do you base this on? I watched Dak at Miss St. Lawrence is light years better, then was Dak, at similar stages of careers. Same with Wentz or Trubisky.

Question, if you can't get Dak to sign, what is the option at QB?