The case for making Guyton the 2024 swing tackle

[_sturt_]

Put Asim Richards at LT

I've said it probably 3 or 4 times now in this thread alone... where is this confidence in Richards coming from??? There's nothing tangible that we can look at that points to him being capable of even being the swing tackle going into his second year. He's just a guy, at least for now. Again, if I'm going to put my confidence is a JAG, give me the 5th round guy who is, at least, going into his 3rd year.

 

[John813]

I've said it probably 3 or 4 times now in this thread alone... where is this confidence in Richards coming from??? There's nothing tangible that we can look at that points to him being capable of even being the swing tackle going into his second year. He's just a guy, at least for now. Again, if I'm going to put my confidence is a JAG, give me the 5th round guy who is, at least, going into his 3rd year.

He did play Tackle in preseason and while it was preseason he didn't look out of place. Played at tackle and then guard(2nd half) vs the Jags.

Note, I'm not saying I want Richards to start, but maybe that's where it's coming from.





In all, he played nearly 60 snaps for the Cowboys. There, he performed well in pass protection. He only allowed a pair of quarterback pressures and did not give up a single QB hit, per Pro Football Focus data.
https://atozsports.com/dallas/cowboys-asim-richards-big-winner-preseason-opener-nfl-news/





Richards has been one of the Cowboys’ top rated pass blockers in the preseason. He’s played 118 offensive snaps, with 78 of them in pass protection. Of those 78, he hasn’t been called for a penalty, allowed a hit, or given up a sack.


He’s given up four pressures total, but based on his workload and early expectations, four pressures represent a big win for Richards. He no longer looks like the project player he was when drafted and is starting to look like a legit depth option for Dallas as they embark on the 2023 season.
https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...ng-more-and-more-like-cowboys-top-reserve-ot/

 

[_sturt_]

He did play Tackle in preseason and while it was preseason he didn't look out of place. Played at tackle and then guard(2nd half) vs the Jags.

Note, I'm not saying I want Richards to start, but maybe that's where it's coming from.





In all, he played nearly 60 snaps for the Cowboys. There, he performed well in pass protection. He only allowed a pair of quarterback pressures and did not give up a single QB hit, per Pro Football Focus data.
https://atozsports.com/dallas/cowboys-asim-richards-big-winner-preseason-opener-nfl-news/





Richards has been one of the Cowboys’ top rated pass blockers in the preseason. He’s played 118 offensive snaps, with 78 of them in pass protection. Of those 78, he hasn’t been called for a penalty, allowed a hit, or given up a sack.


He’s given up four pressures total, but based on his workload and early expectations, four pressures represent a big win for Richards. He no longer looks like the project player he was when drafted and is starting to look like a legit depth option for Dallas as they embark on the 2023 season.
https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/20...ng-more-and-more-like-cowboys-top-reserve-ot/

Appreciate the heads-up.

I was sure that there must be some media person out there who'd put out something glowing... was pretty certain it wasn't any noticeably effusive praise from a coach, since I ordinarily catch those comments.

He's not embarrassed himself in limited action. There is reason for some cautious optimism. I'm satisfied to leave it there until we see whatever there is to see in preseason.

 

[_sturt_]

Setting aside the football part... I sense that this guy might find Texas really fits him overall...

 

[Frosty]

Nah! 1st round picks get thrown into the fire. It's tradition!

Don't worry. He'll learn pretty fast. O-linemen taken in the first round are not developed, they are unleashed. He'll make mistakes, draw penalties but it is strictly OJT. as long as he has the physicality to keep fighting.

If you draft a player in the first round and he is sitting in game #1 he had better be your next franchise quarterback. Any other situation then he is labeled a bust by a ruthless social media right out the gates.

Really sucks his first NFL game will be against one of the best DE in the game. Myles Garrett will have a field day.

 

[plasticman]

Really sucks his first NFL game will be against one of the best DE in the game. Myles Garrett will have a field day.

Um....lol....yeah....of course, I didn't know that when I posted my response. I'm beginning to have a little more empathy for his situation. However, I see no other better choice.

Then again, who will he be practicing against every day in training camp? If any player receives the best simulation of what he will see in his first game, it has got to be Guyton.

 

[_sturt_]

However, I see no other better choice.

If the season started this weekend, Tyler Smith almost certainly would be that... the better choice.

Given the news that they're serious about making C a legit competition, and the inference then that the coaching staff truly is in win-now (and not develop players) mode... then... if you're gonna force me to bet my house on it, it's easier for me to envision Smith to LT, and then two of Beebe, Hoffman and Bass at LG and C.

Yes, you don't want Dak getting destroyed in the first game of the season. Yes, you don't want your 1st round pick to be so embarrassed that it affects him mentally. But the biggest issue goes back to the OP of this thread... Guyton has yet to prove himself as much of a run blocker on the right side. On his good days, he was average at Oklahoma, and on his bad days, something less. And if there's one theme we've heard dozens of times already and should expect to hear dozens more... this team is counting on its O-line to be better in the run game than 2023. If he can't convince Solari in training camp that he's made a considerable jump in that way from his last games in FBS, the message I take is he won't start... some alternative will be employed.

 

[blueblood70]

Put Asim Richards at LT and leave Smith at LG. Beebe at OC and put Guyton at RT and bench Steele’s worthless hide.

Dude you need to think these things through and some of y'all don't think before you post so we should take Steele who's now a veteran who is getting better last year and you wanna sit him down before you see how he plays this year and now you want two very raw tackles playing at the same time on the same line to start the season are you insane I mean these posts just come out of nowhere I understand you might be a little upset at Terrence Steele production last year or lack thereof because of his injury that don't mean that's how he's gonna play this year and he also played pretty well last year towards the end of the year.. There is no way in hell they're putting two basically rookies who have no experience in the NFL as your book end tackles that is not happening you don't move two positions as an experiment you literally were gonna have an open competition at both center and left tackle and may the best man win that's what preseason and training camp is for but STeele not losing his job unless he's horrible..

So if you wanna do that to your fantasy team or your Madden team go ahead but a real football coach and staff are not doing what you're suggesting unless they're desperate literally not putting 2 raw tackles on your team at the same time you can let a Sean Richards battle with guyton and possibly we're gonna end up with Edoga as the starting left tackle,

we don't know but we're leaving the rest of it open and I think Hoffman's gonna give Beebe a run for his money, although I think Beebe going to end up the starter but we have enough problems then putting 2 raw tackles on the field at the same time.... That insane only an injury ridden year like we had in 2020 is gonna have that happen... Now guyton might struggle early but like Tyler Smith I think you give him a chance to play through it and we only have to cover up basically one position you could do that with chipping and you could do that with tight ends on that side you will figure it out but you are not moving both your tackles to being raw that's just not happening I I mean I don't even know what to say like hey I'm just usually not surprised at the things that are suggested here but this just happened to be a little surprising..

 

[Frosty]

Um....lol....yeah....of course, I didn't know that when I posted my response. I'm beginning to have a little more empathy for his situation. However, I see no other better choice.

Then again, who will he be practicing against every day in training camp? If any player receives the best simulation of what he will see in his first game, it has got to be Guyton.

My gut feeling is it will be Chuma Edoga for the first few games....Edoga, Smith, Beebe, Martin and Steel for a few games....Guyton and Bass will play intermittently IMO....mid season I fully expect Guyton to the starter at LT

 

[_sturt_]

Chuma Edoga

Can't rule it out, but my sense is that there's more enthusiasm for Bass than there is for Edoga... and that's the choice. Do they like Bass so much more than Edoga that they're willing to push Smith out to LT? They've seemed intent to not rule it out, and at the same time, intent to try to not have to do that.

Solution: Just sign Bakhtiari--if healthy and if affordable--and cut Edoga. In my opinion, you'll avoid throwing Guyton to the dogs (literally) in week one, and you'll otherwise give Guyton the benefit both of time and of mentorship.

That said, I can't help but read that Bakhtiari hasn't already signed with some team to be a sign that there remains some question about his health or, just as likely, some significant difference in what he's gotten offered and what he's willing to accept... and if the latter, he's probably just content to wait for some team to lose their LT to preseason injury, and see if that doesn't help the market come up to his number.

 

[xwalker]

Allow me please to more brazenly advocate tonight than ever before... Guyton may be the long-term answer, yet not be the short-term answer at LT.

Some already knew this stuff. I confess I did not. See below.






https://www.pff.com/news/draft-buyer-beware-2024-nfl-draft-prospects

Offensive line grading is one of the most stable and predictable data points for future NFL success, and Guyton doesn't check all of the boxes.

His grading profile from 2022 to 2023 is remarkably consistent, albeit at the low end of the spectrum. His 66.2 overall grade in 2022 is almost identical to his 66.3 grade in 2023. His pass-blocking grade was 72.9 in both years, which is respectable but not a great mark. His run blocking is the biggest concern, as he graded out at 62.1 in 2022 and 60.5 in 2023.

On inside-zone runs, Guyton earned a 58.1 grade, with a greater than 2-to-1 negative-to-positive-grade ratio. On all other runs, he recorded a near 1-to-1 ratio. With inside zone being the most prevalent run scheme in the NFL, teams will need to be mindful when considering the big man from Oklahoma.


https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2024/05/10/cowboys-tyler-guyton-biggest-challenge/

Guyton specifically struggled with inside-zone runs at Oklahoma. The same inside-zone Brian Schottenheimer is famous for running as an offensive coordinator. Guyton’s negative grades on inside-zone runs beat out his positive grades more than 2-to-1.

A blown assignment on a running play may not sound like a significant event given total number of players involved in blocking for a running play, but the numbers tell a different tale: On a running play with zero negatively graded blocks, running plays historically have a 60.2% success rate. On plays with one or more negative graded blocks that success rate drops to 25.7%. Understandably the EPA follows suit, dropping from +0.27 to -0.27.

It shows one bad block can make all the difference in the running game and both phases of the game should be seen as single point failure areas for offensive linemen and not just pass-protection.

For Guyton, it’s not about the pancake blocks or the highlight-reel peaks in performance, it’s about cutting out the blown assignments and lowlight-reel valleys in performance.


If we get to Oxnard, and that appears to be the prevailing conclusion, of course, we have some alternatives in-house... the leading one likely being that you move Tyler to LT, and TJ to LG.

Me, I'd rather just take the proposition of Guyton starting off the table, given that almost no one believes he's going to be a capable left tackle for Dak and for the running game in week one. It's too important a position, in my opinion, to pencil him in there, and make it his job to lose.

Rather, I'm a proponent for going out of house for an cagey old veteran LT whose price on the open market probably is significantly slashed as a consequence that 2 of the last 3 seasons have been lost seasons for him healthwise... but supposedly, he is already deemed healthy for 2024, and conceivably, he could be attracted to a reunion with his old head coach. Sign 32 yr old David Bakhtiari to be the #1 for 2024, unless/until the kid just overwhelms and makes it irrational to keep him as the swing tackle... or unless/until injury forces Guyton into the line-up.

Guyton will be fine.

His physical is radically better than anybody they would get as an interim starter.

David Bakhtiari...always injured.

Tyron played more games the past 4 seasons than Bakhtiari...

 

[jterrell]

Not so fast. There's somewhat obviously a difference between a kid being ready to start at LT after having played RT all his college snaps... and a kid being ready enough to fill-in at either of those positions. It's not like he's not already groomed for the right side. So, no... it happens with some frequency in this league that guys get drafted with the intention to let them be the primary backup at both tackle slots... they certainly could... mere dismissiveness on its own is routinely not very persuasive from where I sit.

You aren't going to teach a guy two positions if you think he is slow to take on the primary one.
If something crazy happens like Steele is injured again for serious length of time, perhaps you scrap the original plan but you are not going to willfully make him a swing where he's practicing both spots in the week.
They'll give him reps and expect him to start at LT soon though perhaps not week 1 versus Monster Garrett.
Every snap he gets elsewhere is a waste if you drafted him specifically for his LT upside.
Same way they played Tryon Smith at RT year 1 but once he moved, he was moved permanently and took all his snaps at LT.

 

[_sturt_]

You aren't going to teach a guy two positions

Right. And you wouldn't. Because he's already been playing RT.

They'll give him reps and expect him to start at LT soon though perhaps not week 1 versus Monster Garrett.

I'm not arguing that what they will do. I'm making the case for what they should do.

Every snap he gets elsewhere is a waste if you drafted him specifically for his LT upside.

Not for 2024 it isn't. In the scenario I favor, you're giving Guyton more time to acclimate, more time to learn the LT footwork, and under the tutelage of one of the best LTs of the last decade. And if the starter goes down, at least the team and Guyton got the benefit of how ever many games Bakhtiari was able to play. Big caveat to that scenario that I can't promise is true, and I've said this 4x I think by now... is he healthy?... is he affordable? Think he is. And. Think he is. But the two are inter-related, of course, because if he didn't have the injury history he's had, he most definitely wouldn't even be on the market, being only 32 and having Tyron Smith-like regard in GB.


Addendum: Heard on Nick's show today some hint that he knows a little something. Spoke about how this is the time of year that veteran players who aren't already signed likely are content to wait so that they don't have to show up for all of the off-season work... the implication being that maybe some deals are essentially done but that they won't be made official until closer to training camp, if not the first week of training camp. They don't have the YouTube video of it up yet, or I'd paste it here. Like I said, I'm very doubtful that the front office will do what I want them to do at LT, but on the other hand, I feel it's a legit possibility they have or will make a play for Lawrence Guy.

 

[FVSTONE]

Allow me please to more brazenly advocate tonight than ever before... Guyton may be the long-term answer, yet not be the short-term answer at LT.

Some already knew this stuff. I confess I did not. See below.






https://www.pff.com/news/draft-buyer-beware-2024-nfl-draft-prospects

Offensive line grading is one of the most stable and predictable data points for future NFL success, and Guyton doesn't check all of the boxes.

His grading profile from 2022 to 2023 is remarkably consistent, albeit at the low end of the spectrum. His 66.2 overall grade in 2022 is almost identical to his 66.3 grade in 2023. His pass-blocking grade was 72.9 in both years, which is respectable but not a great mark. His run blocking is the biggest concern, as he graded out at 62.1 in 2022 and 60.5 in 2023.

On inside-zone runs, Guyton earned a 58.1 grade, with a greater than 2-to-1 negative-to-positive-grade ratio. On all other runs, he recorded a near 1-to-1 ratio. With inside zone being the most prevalent run scheme in the NFL, teams will need to be mindful when considering the big man from Oklahoma.


https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2024/05/10/cowboys-tyler-guyton-biggest-challenge/

Guyton specifically struggled with inside-zone runs at Oklahoma. The same inside-zone Brian Schottenheimer is famous for running as an offensive coordinator. Guyton’s negative grades on inside-zone runs beat out his positive grades more than 2-to-1.

A blown assignment on a running play may not sound like a significant event given total number of players involved in blocking for a running play, but the numbers tell a different tale: On a running play with zero negatively graded blocks, running plays historically have a 60.2% success rate. On plays with one or more negative graded blocks that success rate drops to 25.7%. Understandably the EPA follows suit, dropping from +0.27 to -0.27.

It shows one bad block can make all the difference in the running game and both phases of the game should be seen as single point failure areas for offensive linemen and not just pass-protection.

For Guyton, it’s not about the pancake blocks or the highlight-reel peaks in performance, it’s about cutting out the blown assignments and lowlight-reel valleys in performance.


If we get to Oxnard, and that appears to be the prevailing conclusion, of course, we have some alternatives in-house... the leading one likely being that you move Tyler to LT, and TJ to LG.

Me, I'd rather just take the proposition of Guyton starting off the table, given that almost no one believes he's going to be a capable left tackle for Dak and for the running game in week one. It's too important a position, in my opinion, to pencil him in there, and make it his job to lose.

Rather, I'm a proponent for going out of house for an cagey old veteran LT whose price on the open market probably is significantly slashed as a consequence that 2 of the last 3 seasons have been lost seasons for him healthwise... but supposedly, he is already deemed healthy for 2024, and conceivably, he could be attracted to a reunion with his old head coach. Sign 32 yr old David Bakhtiari to be the #1 for 2024, unless/until the kid just overwhelms and makes it irrational to keep him as the swing tackle... or unless/until injury forces Guyton into the line-up.

Did JJ draft another Mazi on the offensive side of the ball????????????? HE had an opportunity to take a dam good center and who happened to be the highest rated center at 24 and still could have had Beebe in the 3rd rd. Those two on the O-Line with what the Cowboys already have would have been a site to see, but no JJ takes another PROJECT with the 1st pick...................

 

[_sturt_]

Did JJ draft another Mazi on the offensive side of the ball?

Damn, folks. C'mon. First, it's a whole other thread that isn't this one, but we know nothing right now about how effective Mazi can be. The Mazi we put on the field last season was... literally... a sliver of his former self, the self that was the heart of the Michigan Wolverines defense in 2022. Jury's out. DQ did a lot of good things, but we're about to find out if he made bad decisions where Mazi's usage was concerned.

To the point of this thread, too many people evidently weren't Cowboys fans in 2011, or are having some selective dementia episodes. Tyron Smith took time to settle in. He was not the Tyron Smith we've all come to regard so highly right out of the gate. Tyler Smith may be the cause of said dementia. He esteemed himself far quicker than many thought he would. Over here on my side of the internet, I advocate for us to aspire to critical thought, and to patience in assessment. I'm not alone. Different position, but geezLouise, I recall vividly at this time of year ahead of his age 24 season that Dalton Schultz probably wasn't going to make the team. It serves the compelling point... you have to give players time that show promise some time to develop.

HE had an opportunity to take a dam good center

Barton, people easily forget, was a LT his sophomore, junior, and senior seasons. He's only got the slimmest of legs up on Beebe as a consequence of having played half a season as C in his freshman year. It's not that much more of a stretch to believe Beebe will develop into a capable center than it is that Barton will.

and still could have had Beebe in the 3rd rd

Um. Brain cramps. I get 'em too. So I won't throw stones.

 

[FVSTONE]

Damn, folks. C'mon. First, it's a whole other thread that isn't this one, but we know nothing right now about how effective Mazi can be. The Mazi we put on the field last season was... literally... a sliver of his former self, the self that was the heart of the Michigan Wolverines defense in 2022. Jury's out. DQ did a lot of good things, but we're about to find out if he made bad decisions where Mazi's usage was concerned.

To the point of this thread, too many people evidently weren't Cowboys fans in 2011, or are having some selective dementia episodes. Tyron Smith took time to settle in. He was not the Tyron Smith we've all come to regard so highly right out of the gate. Tyler Smith may be the cause of said dementia. He esteemed himself far quicker than many thought he would. Over here on my side of the internet, I advocate for us to aspire to critical thought, and to patience in assessment. I'm not alone. Different position, but geezLouise, I recall vividly at this time of year ahead of his age 24 season that Dalton Schultz probably wasn't going to make the team. It serves the compelling point... you have to give players time that show promise some time to develop.



Barton, people easily forget, was a LT his sophomore, junior, and senior seasons. He's only got the slimmest of legs up on Beebe as a consequence of having played half a season as C in his freshman year. It's not that much more of a stretch to believe Beebe will develop into a capable center than it is that Barton will.


Um. Brain cramps. I get 'em too. So I won't throw stones.

I can still see Mazi in the preseason games getting HANDLED by players who ended up on PS or even worse couldn't even make the PS. Michigan has not be kind to the Cowboys lately..........

 

[_sturt_]

Can't rule it out, but my sense is that there's more enthusiasm for Bass than there is for Edoga... and that's the choice. Do they like Bass so much more than Edoga that they're willing to push Smith out to LT? They've seemed intent to not rule it out, and at the same time, intent to try to not have to do that.

Solution: Just sign Bakhtiari--if healthy and if affordable--and cut Edoga. In my opinion, you'll avoid throwing Guyton to the dogs (literally) in week one, and you'll otherwise give Guyton the benefit both of time and of mentorship.

That said, I can't help but read that Bakhtiari hasn't already signed with some team to be a sign that there remains some question about his health or, just as likely, some significant difference in what he's gotten offered and what he's willing to accept... and if the latter, he's probably just content to wait for some team to lose their LT to preseason injury, and see if that doesn't help the market come up to his number.

New intel

 

[kskboys]

So many posters here choose to take the negative side of every player. I don’t get it. Foreign to me.

Of course, because it's not. It's just a few making a lot of noise, has you fooled.

 

[kskboys]

Where does this confidence come from? It's not even a lock that Richards makes the roster. He's got potential, but we have a pool of guys who fit that description at this point.

And I'm not even sure about the potential.

 

[kskboys]

No! He can split 1st team reps with Richards until they’re confident he’s ready.

You think Richards is ready to start? Why?