The case for taking Ezekiel Elliot at # 4

[Stash]

But if it led to us winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 years, would you still call it a failure? Not saying we will, just saying we won't with Dmac and/or Morris. But, again, that is simply my opinion.

I think your question is a pointless hypothetical not worthy of discussion. I can plug 'any other running back name' in there and ask the same question.

 

[Sydla]

So, your assumption is Garrett sucks? I'm pretty sure that topic belongs in a different forum but I could be wrong. It definitely belongs in a different thread. Here's an idea. Start a Garrett sucks thread. That hasn't been done before. smh

My assumption is Garrett is a mediocre head coach. He's got a .500 record over 5 years and he's never shown he can win without Romo under center.

I don't think he sucks. I just don't think he's an upper echelon head coach who can lead a team to a SB and frankly, as storied as this franchise is, they deserve a head coach that can do that.

 

[jday]

My assumption is Garrett is a mediocre head coach. He's got a .500 record over 5 years and he's never shown he can win without Romo under center.

I don't think he sucks. I just don't think he's an upper echelon head coach who can lead a team to a SB and frankly, as storied as this franchise is, they deserve a head coach that can do that.

Why are you under the mistaken impression that I want to have a conversation about Jason Garrett? I honestly don't care what anyone thinks about Garrett. Please start a thread about it somewhere else. I assure you many will show up to chime in; just not me.

 

[jday]

I think your question is a pointless hypothetical not worthy of discussion. I can plug 'any other running back name' in there and ask the same question.

And all the "facts" you said earlier are merely your opinion, so I guess we are even.

 

[Sydla]

Why are you under the mistaken impression that I want to have a conversation about Jason Garrett? I honestly don't care what anyone thinks about Garrett. Please start a thread about it somewhere else. I assure you many will show up to chime in; just not me.

You said I believe that he sucks. I wanted to set the record straight. I don't think he sucks. I just don't think he's top level.

 

[jday]

You said I believe that he sucks. I wanted to set the record straight. I don't think he sucks. I just don't think he's top level.

Fair enough. And on that we can actually agree. But now that I think about it this whole thing started because you responded to a tweet about Jason and Linehan wanting Elliott saying don't listen to them. So now the question is, despite his mediocrity do you not think he can assess talent and decide what is best for this team?

Admittedly, I'm not crazy about everything he has done here and/or on the sideline...but I do think there is value in listening to what the coach says he needs to win.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

Kiper mocked EE to Dallas in his latest mock...in the second round.

 

[robjay04]

I've mentioned the facts.

That it would cost more than what you could have signed a proven NFL running back for. And therefore would be a failure.

It would cost you your #4 overall pick for a position available every year in free agency. And one rarely ever drafted at the top of the draft anymore. Failure.

It would prevent you from filling bigger needs this team currently has. Failure.

It would be adding another running back to a group where both of the current performers have proven themselves, either here with this line, or elsewhere. Failure.

And then you've simply covered your eyes and your ears and shouted "I want Zeke!" anyway, all facts of the situation be damned.

Elite running backs are worth high draft picks. Gurley went in the top 10 last season and I bet there is a couple teams that passed on him that may be kicking themselves now.

I will repeat pretty much what Adam Schefter said a few months ago. If you think Zeke can do to this team what La'Veon Bell has done for Pitt, you take him and don't think twice. You put yourself in the best position for Tony Romo to win a championship. Zeke is a Romo pick, any other pick is pretty much just a piece for life without Tony Romo.

 

[iceberg]

But if it led to us winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 years, would you still call it a failure? Not saying we will, just saying we won't with Dmac and/or Morris. But, again, that is simply my opinion.

the problem with "what if's" are pretty simple. let me explain.

but what if drafting bosa fixed our pass rush and made our secondary better so we won a superbowl in the next 5 years.
but what if we draft a full on shut down corner and we win a superbowl cause of him?
but what if we just have the best line of all time and we can open up gaping holes for any RB to be a star???

 

[Sydla]

Elite running backs are worth high draft picks. Gurley went in the top 10 last season and I bet there is a couple teams that passed on him that may be kicking themselves now.

I will repeat pretty much what Adam Schefter said a few months ago. If you think Zeke can do to this team what La'Veon Bell has done for Pitt, you take him and don't think twice. You put yourself in the best position for Tony Romo to win a championship. Zeke is a Romo pick, any other pick is pretty much just a piece for life without Tony Romo.

But in doing so, the Cowboys have then just done a 180 on how they believe they should properly build a team. They've said and done things that show over the past 2 years they very clearly believed they could build a roster by not investing a lot of money into the TB position and that those resources are better served elsewhere invested in other positions. They've built an OL with that strict idea in mind - that they don't have to now invest top assets in a TB.

Then here comes the draft, they are running out of options at 4 and snap up a TB that will require them to commit more financial resources to than they were willing to spend in the last two offseasons? That seems haphazard thinking and IMO smells a bit like these guys just don't really have a plan in place to build a real winner.

 

[jday]

the problem with "what if's" are pretty simple. let me explain.

but what if drafting bosa fixed our pass rush and made our secondary better so we won a superbowl in the next 5 years.
but what if we draft a full on shut down corner and we win a superbowl cause of him?
but what if we just have the best line of all time and we can open up gaping holes for any RB to be a star???

Have you been following the conversation? Or did you simply see my response and let your fingers do the talking? The reason I ask is because the person I was responding to was attempting to pander off all these steps the Cowboys have made as failure including if the Cowboys take Zeke at 4. I was simply curious if he would still label his opinion as fact were that hypothetical scenario to play out.

 

[iceberg]

Have you been following the conversation? Or did you simply see my response and let your fingers do the talking? The reason I ask is because the person I was responding to was attempting to pander off all these steps the Cowboys have made as failure including take Zeke at 4. I was simply curious if he would still label his opinion as fact were that hypothetical scenario to play out.

you're right - i dove in where i could trying to keep up. if it was a misfire - my bad.

 

[jday]

you're right - i dove in where i could trying to keep up. if it was a misfire - my bad.

No worries...I do that all the time! lol

 

[robjay04]

But in doing so, the Cowboys have then just done a 180 on how they believe they should properly build a team. They've said and done things that show over the past 2 years they very clearly believed they could build a roster by not investing a lot of money into the TB position and that those resources are better served elsewhere invested in other positions. They've built an OL with that strict idea in mind - that they don't have to now invest top assets in a TB.

Then here comes the draft, they are running out of options at 4 and snap up a TB that will require them to commit more financial resources to than they were willing to spend in the last two offseasons? That seems haphazard thinking and IMO smells a bit like these guys just don't really have a plan in place to build a real winner.

But have they really did a 360? Yes they did let Murray walk, Murray also had years on him, an injury history and he wanted to get paid but they also showed confirmed interest in AD during the same offseason, Jerry Jones even publicly dangled his first round pick to the Vikings immediately after we signed Collins. They also invested countless resources draft time on virtually every back available last season. If you watched the war room, you could see the air being sucked out of the room when backs taken in the early 2nd/3rd were taken off the board. I fully suspect that our second round pick would've been a back if Gregory didn't fall in our lap.

This season...they have shown confirmed interest in reacquiring Demarco Murray, adding Lamar Miller and adding Matt Forte. They have also shown considerably pre draft interest in both of the backs considered to be early round prospects(Zeke, Henry). In my eyes, this is a team that has shown plenty of hints that they want to upgrade the RB position. They have been stubborn about the price they will pay a veteran but a rookie with elite potential? I don't know.

 

[jday]

Kiper mocked EE to Dallas in his latest mock...in the second round.

What? How is Zeke falling that far? Don't get me wrong, that would be epic!!!

 

[Beats_By_Zeke]

What? How is Zeke falling that far? Don't get me wrong, that would be epic!!!

Kiper does not value Rb's\
Hes not saying that is where he would go realistically in the draft, but if Dallas were to get him there he would give them an A for it.
So its ridiculous too look at it that way.

 

[Sydla]

But have they really did a 360? Yes they did let Murray walk, Murray also had years on him, an injury history and he wanted to get paid but they also showed confirmed interest in AD during the same offseason, Jerry Jones even publicly dangled his first round pick to the Vikings immediately after we signed Collins. They also invested countless resources draft time on virtually every back available last season. If you watched the war room, you could see the air being sucked out of the room when backs taken in the early 2nd/3rd were taken off the board. I fully suspect that our second round pick would've been a back if Gregory didn't fall in our lap.

This season...they have shown confirmed interest in reacquiring Demarco Murray, adding Lamar Miller and adding Matt Forte. They have also shown considerably pre draft interest in both of the backs considered to be early round prospects(Zeke, Henry). In my eyes, this is a team that has shown plenty of hints that they want to upgrade the RB position. They have been stubborn about the price they will pay a veteran but a rookie with elite potential? I don't know.

The fact they wanted to take a TB in the 2nd and 3rd round doesn't support your point at all. It supports mine.............. that they are looking for TBs that they don't have to invest a lot of money into. Yeldon, the first RB off the board in Rd 2 last year only had $4MM in guaranteed money in his rookie deal. That would be right in the sweet spot for the Cowboys.

Yes they have done a 180. They inquired about Miller just a few months ago and apparently were turned off by the guaranteed money of $14MM or so. Miller isn't a worn down Murray by any stretch. Jones has clearly said in the past two years that they simply do not want to invest a lot of money into the TB position because of the wear and tear they feel that position takes.

Then here comes the draft and they take a TB at 4 and hand him a check for $25MM guaranteed?

Note, I am not saying they don't want to upgrade the TB position. What I am saying is that for 2 years their plan is to look to upgrade the TB spot without investing a lot of money into the position.

 

[jday]

But have they really did a 360? Yes they did let Murray walk, Murray also had years on him, an injury history and he wanted to get paid but they also showed confirmed interest in AD during the same offseason, Jerry Jones even publicly dangled his first round pick to the Vikings immediately after we signed Collins. They also invested countless resources draft time on virtually every back available last season. If you watched the war room, you could see the air being sucked out of the room when backs taken in the early 2nd/3rd were taken off the board. I fully suspect that our second round pick would've been a back if Gregory didn't fall in our lap.

This season...they have shown confirmed interest in reacquiring Demarco Murray, adding Lamar Miller and adding Matt Forte. They have also shown considerably pre draft interest in both of the backs considered to be early round prospects(Zeke, Henry). In my eyes, this is a team that has shown plenty of hints that they want to upgrade the RB position. They have been stubborn about the price they will pay a veteran but a rookie with elite potential? I don't know.

Let's qualify that "elite potential" real quick because alot of zoners see that and think we are saying second coming of AP. Not in the least. I think most would agree Fournette is closer to that type of potential than Zeke is as a sophmore. Zeke has everything you look for in a back; you can put him out there on any given down and not tip your hand in any way. He runs, he blocks, he catches. And behind that offensive line, he could very well do all of those things at an elite level; maybe not for every team, but I believe for the Cowboys he could be a monster.

 

[jday]

Kiper does not value Rb's\
Hes not saying that is where he would go realistically in the draft, but if Dallas were to get him there he would give them an A for it.
So its ridiculous too look at it that way.

Gotcha...

 

[jday]

The fact they wanted to take a TB in the 2nd and 3rd round doesn't support your point at all. It supports mine.............. that they are looking for TBs that they don't have to invest a lot of money into.

Yes they have done a 180. They inquired about Miller just a few months ago and apparently were turned off by the guaranteed money of $14MM or so. Miller isn't a worn down Murray by any stretch. Jones has clearly said in the past two years that they simply do not want to invest a lot of money into the TB position because of the wear and tear they feel that position takes.

Then here comes the draft and they take a TB at 4 and hand him a check for $25MM guaranteed?

Not necessarily. Last year, both Gurley and the other guy were off the board before the Cowboys picked. From there, I think most would have given the running backs left a 3rd round grade. So no, that doesn't support your assertion at all.