The case for taking Ezekiel Elliot at # 4

[Sydla]

Not necessarily. Last year, both Gurley and the other guy were off the board before the Cowboys picked. From there, I think most would have given the running backs left a 3rd round grade. So no, that doesn't support your assertion at all.

Actually it does. Let's start with the assertion. The assertion is that the Cowboys do not want to invest a lot of money into the TB position and Jones was very clear about that after Murray left two years ago.

If Gurley or Gordon had slipped to their pick in the first round, absolutely both would have been prime targets IMO. Why? Because the Cowboys are always looking to add to the TB position but want to do so in, for a lack of a better term, frugal manner. And at that pick last year, the Cowboys would only have had to give Gordon or Gurley less than $7MM in guaranteed money. That's exactly the type of contract they are looking for with their TBs if you believe what they say and have done for two offseasons.

So the fact they could have taken Gurley or Gordon at 27 and were flummoxed when TBs started going off the board in the 2nd and 3rd round is in line with my commentary and belief.

 

[robjay04]

Note, I am not saying they don't want to upgrade the TB position. What I am saying is that for 2 years their plan is to look to upgrade the TB spot without investing a lot of money into the position.

Well it hasn't worked yet and maybe they are willing to admit that.

I will admit that we really shouldn't throw a number 4 pick at running back but this is a weird draft at the top. We have Goff, a small school QB that shot up the boards, a secondary player that doesn't have a true position or a nose for interceptions, a DE that doesn't grade out as a great pass rusher by most pundits and a LB coming off a major injury. The best prospect is at a position where we don't have a need (OT).

Those are our choices...when you compare Zeke to those choices, you could see why a front office would lean towards going towards a sure thing. Zeke, behind this OL, has a zero percent chance to bust unless he gets injured.

 

[Sydla]

Well it hasn't worked yet and maybe they are willing to admit that.

I will admit that we really shouldn't throw a number 4 pick at running back but this is a weird draft at the top. We have Goff, a small school QB that shot up the boards, a secondary player that doesn't have a true position or a nose for interceptions, a DE that doesn't grade out as a great pass rusher by most pundits and a LB coming off a major injury. The best prospect is at a position where we don't have a need (OT).

Those are our choices...when you compare Zeke to those choices, you could see why a front office would lean towards going towards a sure thing. Zeke, behind this OL, has a zero percent chance to bust unless he gets injured.

You don't know that it hasn't worked yet. We've played one season without Murray and the TB ran for over 1,000 yards when they didn't have Romo and any passing threat for 12 games.

Which gets to my point. Taking a TB at 4 is a clear deviation from their stated plan and would strike me a bit as a panic move.

IMO, if it's Zeke or Tunsil, take Tunsil.

 

[Stash]

And all the "facts" you said earlier are merely your opinion, so I guess we are even.

Name one part of them that's opinion? You want to tell yourself that so you can feel better, but none of what I've pointed out isn't true.

 

[Stash]

Elite running backs are worth high draft picks. Gurley went in the top 10 last season and I bet there is a couple teams that passed on him that may be kicking themselves now.

And Darren McFadden finished right behind Gurley, thanks to this offensive line.

I will repeat pretty much what Adam Schefter said a few months ago. If you think Zeke can do to this team what La'Veon Bell has done for Pitt, you take him and don't think twice. You put yourself in the best position for Tony Romo to win a championship. Zeke is a Romo pick, any other pick is pretty much just a piece for life without Tony Romo.

Romo will just have to 'make due' with other players. If you need all-pro's and first rounders at every position to win, you're just not very good.

What's the point of having an all-world line if you still have to invest premium draft picks everywhere else?

This line made a 3rd round pick the NFL's leading rusher, and a busted afterthought finished 4th in the league.

They make running backs, running backs don't make them.

 

[jday]

Name one part of them that's opinion? You want to tell yourself that so you can feel better, but none of what I've pointed out isn't true.

Ok

First let's establish what a fact is: a thing that is indisputably the case.

That it would cost more than what you could have signed a proven NFL running back for. And therefore would be a failure.

"Proven" means absolutely nothing in the NFL. Players exceed expectations and fall shot of expectations all of the time. So, there is no guarantee that any given Free Agent would be able to do as well or better than Zeke. Not a fact, your opinion.

I

t would cost you your #4 overall pick for a position available every year in free agency. And one rarely ever drafted at the top of the draft anymore. Failure.

Zeke is not available every year in Free Agency. Not a fact, your opinion.

It would prevent you from filling bigger needs this team currently has. Failure.

In 2014, are running game made our defense better. The defense as it stands now has needs at every level - defensive line, linebacker, corner and safety. One player on that side of the ball fixes nothing. A much improved running game on the other hand does. Again, what you said is not a fact; just your opinion.

It would be adding another running back to a group where both of the current performers have proven themselves, either here with this line, or elsewhere. Failure.

I really shouldn't have to here. I should just simply lol this statement and move on...but considering your conviction: Dmac is an injury waiting to happen and Morris has been on the decline since he started. Again, not a fact, just your opinion.

And then you've simply covered your eyes and your ears and shouted "I want Zeke!" anyway, all facts of the situation be damned.

Actually, if you have followed my post, you would know that I would be okay with Goff, Ramsey, or Zeke. My preference is Zeke because of the immediate impact it would have. Goff and Ramsey are not win-now picks. It would mean that we are probably going to be picking high again in 2017. Whereas Zeke could very well mean playoffs. But these are all my opinions, none of which I've tried to pander off as fact. Nevertheless, I stand behind them.

 

[jday]

Actually it does. Let's start with the assertion. The assertion is that the Cowboys do not want to invest a lot of money into the TB position and Jones was very clear about that after Murray left two years ago.

If Gurley or Gordon had slipped to their pick in the first round, absolutely both would have been prime targets IMO. Why? Because the Cowboys are always looking to add to the TB position but want to do so in, for a lack of a better term, frugal manner. And at that pick last year, the Cowboys would only have had to give Gordon or Gurley less than $7MM in guaranteed money. That's exactly the type of contract they are looking for with their TBs if you believe what they say and have done for two offseasons.

So the fact they could have taken Gurley or Gordon at 27 and were flummoxed when TBs started going off the board in the 2nd and 3rd round is in line with my commentary and belief.

I don't think that it was as clear as you suggest. I don't think they wanted to invest alot of money into Murray who has not been able to consistently stay healthy and who is well past an average backs prime. A young back, though, could very well be a different story.

So here's my prediction and it's not the first time I've said this:

If the draft lays out the way I think it will, where Ramsey, Goff, and Wentz are off the board, the Cowboys will attempt to trade back, but if no takers will draft Zeke and will give him #22. That's what I think will happen, if all the other conditions are met. Feel free to call me crazy...

 

[Stash]

Ok

First let's establish what a fact is: a thing that is indisputably the case.



"Proven" means absolutely nothing in the NFL. Players exceed expectations and fall shot of expectations all of the time. So, there is no guarantee that any given Free Agent would be able to do as well or better than Zeke. Not a fact, your opinion.

"Proven" means everything. It shows the player can play at the NFL level, because they've done it and done it well. Zeke can just as easily be the next Trent Richardson. He's never done it at the NFL level.

Zeke is not available every year in Free Agency. Not a fact, your opinion.

What's the actual point you're trying and failing to make with this ramble?

In 2014, are running game made our defense better. The defense as it stands now has needs at every level - defensive line, linebacker, corner and safety. One player on that side of the ball fixes nothing. A much improved running game on the other hand does. Again, what you said is not a fact; just your opinion.

And the fact is that our line made our running back, not the other way around. Fact, not opinion. This line turned around and made the next guy that came along. A former bust first round draft pick left for dead. Fact.

I really shouldn't have to here. I should just simply lol this statement and move on...but considering your conviction: Dmac is an injury waiting to happen and Morris has been on the decline since he started. Again, not a fact, just your opinion.

And there's no other running back to be had anywhere else! Whatever will we do?

Actually, if you have followed my post, you would know that I would be okay with Goff, Ramsey, or Zeke. My preference is Zeke because of the immediate impact it would have. Goff and Ramsey are not win-now picks. It would mean that we are probably going to be picking high again in 2017. Whereas Zeke could very well mean playoffs. But these are all my opinions, none of which I've tried to pander off as fact. Nevertheless, I stand behind them.

Stand wherever you'd like, your opinions have nothing of substance behind them whatsoever.

If Romo was healthy, this team's playoff chances would have been every bit as good with McFadden as they would be with your fantasy back. And McFadden, Morris, and another back later will be enough for this team. They don't need this guy. And he's not special.

 

[Stash]

I don't think that it was as clear as you suggest. I don't think they wanted to invest alot of money into Murray who has not been able to consistently healthy and who is well past an average backs prime. A young back, though, could very well be a different story.

So here's my prediction and it's not the first time I've said this:

If the draft lays out the way I think it will, where Ramsey, Goff, and Wentz are off the board, the Cowboys will attempt to trade back, but if no takers will draft Zeke and will give him #22. That's what I think will happen, if all the other conditions are met. Feel free to call me crazy...

Done.

You're crazy.

And when this doesn't happen, you'll shrug your shoulders and walk away until the next ridiculous claim you make happens.

This carries as little weight for anyone else now as it will when you're wrong. None.

 

[Sydla]

I don't think that it was as clear as you suggest. I don't think they wanted to invest alot of money into Murray who has not been able to consistently healthy and who is well past an average backs prime. A young back, though, could very well be a different story.

So here's my prediction and it's not the first time I've said this:

If the draft lays out the way I think it will, where Ramsey, Goff, and Wentz are off the board, the Cowboys will attempt to trade back, but if no takers will draft Zeke and will give him #22. That's what I think will happen, if all the other conditions are met. Feel free to call me crazy...

It was pretty clear. Jones didn't say they didn't want to sink money in Murray specifically. He referenced the position of TB. He didn't just single Murray out in that one quote. He clearly said they had concerns over the amount of punishment the "position" takes. Further, Miller is a young back with limited tread on him and the Cowboys inquired about him and apparently balked at the $14MM or so he eventually got in guaranteed money from Houston.

So they very well may take Elliott at #4. But IMO it would be because they panicked and did a quick 180 from what has been their stated plan on how to handle the TB position.

If what you say plays out and Ramsey, Wentz and Goff are done and they can't trade out of 4, then the smart pick is Tunsil, not Elliott. Because in the end, OL are more valuable than TBs and you might then be able to move an OL for more picks down the road. Once you take Elliott, he's yours, good or bad. TBs have little value in trades.

 

[jday]

Proven" means everything. It shows the player can play at the NFL level, because they've done it and done it well. Zeke can just as easily be the next Trent Richardson. He's never done it at the NFL level.

Nope, it really doesn't. Because players "prove" themselves in contract years all of the time, onlly to disappoint the very next season.

What's the actual point you're trying and failing to make with this ramble?

You said capable back's are there for the taking every year and that's just not true...at least, not on Zeke's level, who can do everything well...maybe not great, but well enough to be great behind the Cowboys line.

And the fact is that our line made our running back, not the other way around. Fact, not opinion. This line turned around and made the next guy that came along. A former bust first round draft pick left for dead. Fact.

Nope...not a fact. Your opinion. There were times where the line made the running back shine...but even those offensive line will admit there were times where the running back made them look good. It's a symbiotic relationship...and sure Morris and Dmac will have opportunities behind that line, but they will never be able to carry the team like Murray did in 2014.

And there's no other running back to be had anywhere else! Whatever will we do?

Never said there weren't other running backs...I simply am asserting that there aren't other running backs of Zeke's quality.

Stand wherever you'd like, your opinions have nothing of substance behind them whatsoever.

Mine have just as much substances as your opinions that you like to call "facts." lol

If Romo was healthy, this team's playoff chances would have been every bit as good with McFadden as they would be with your fantasy back. And McFadden, Morris, and another back later will be enough for this team. They don't need this guy. And he's not special.

There is truth to that only because of the horrendous division the Cowboys are in...but beyond the playoffs...not a chance...in my opinion.

 

[jday]

It was pretty clear. Jones didn't say they didn't want to sink money in Murray specifically. He referenced the position of TB. He didn't just single Murray out in that one quote. He clearly said they had concerns over the amount of punishment the "position" takes. Further, Miller is a young back with limited tread on him and the Cowboys inquired about him and apparently balked at the $14MM or so he eventually got in guaranteed money from Houston.

So they very well may take Elliott at #4. But IMO it would be because they panicked and did a quick 180 from what has been their stated plan on how to handle the TB position.

If what you say plays out and Ramsey, Wentz and Goff are done and they can't trade out of 4, then the smart pick is Tunsil, not Elliott. Because in the end, OL are more valuable than TBs and you might then be able to move an OL for more picks down the road. Once you take Elliott, he's yours, good or bad. TBs have little value in trades.

14m would have been too high for Miller. And no Jerry did not single out Murray because that would have been classless.

 

[CowboyChris]

Kiper mocked EE to Dallas in his latest mock...in the second round.

If true....Kiper needs to put down the hair spray bottle. cause that isn't happening.

 

[Sydla]

14m would have been too high for Miller. And no Jerry did not single out Murray because that would have been classless.

He actually did mention Murray in that one quote that made the rounds. But in that same statement he also referenced the fact that they have a belief that they will not throw money at the TB "position" because of the punishment they take. The point being it wasn't Murray alone that they were drawing the line in the sand, it was the position itself that they were drawing that line in the sand.

You can spin it however you want but two years ago the Cowboys were pretty damn clear that their philosophy was not to spend a lot of money on TBs because of the injury factor and their investment in the OL. To then take Elliott and make him the 8th or 9th highest paid TB in football would be a clear divergent move for the front office. Maybe they take Elliott but I think at that point, it's because their hands are tied and have no options.

 

[CowboyChris]

I don't think that it was as clear as you suggest. I don't think they wanted to invest alot of money into Murray who has not been able to consistently stay healthy and who is well past an average backs prime. A young back, though, could very well be a different story.

So here's my prediction and it's not the first time I've said this:

If the draft lays out the way I think it will, where Ramsey, Goff, and Wentz are off the board, the Cowboys will attempt to trade back, but if no takers will draft Zeke and will give him #22. That's what I think will happen, if all the other conditions are met. Feel free to call me crazy...

I have agreed with all your points except giving Zeke #22...I'm not ready to give that number to anyone just yet. I'd like to see him wear #25.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

The only case I have for taking Elliot at #4 is if all of the top 10 players pop for drugs/domestic violence before the draft and we can't trade back.

 

[jday]

I have agreed with all your points except giving Zeke #22...I'm not ready to give that number to anyone just yet. I'd like to see him wear #25.

So you know, I'm not saying they should. I'm simply predicting they will like they did with Dez. And Jerry needs something to sell the fans after last season.

 

[jday]

Done.

You're crazy.

And when this doesn't happen, you'll shrug your shoulders and walk away until the next ridiculous claim you make happens.

This carries as little weight for anyone else now as it will when you're wrong. None.

You really should do your research before calling someone out. Perhaps go through my past post. Because in truth I've been pretty spot on with most my assertions. As for the prediction, that was just for fun. Alot of things have to happen first for that to come to fruition.

 

[jday]

He actually did mention Murray in that one quote that made the rounds. But in that same statement he also referenced the fact that they have a belief that they will not throw money at the TB "position" because of the punishment they take. The point being it wasn't Murray alone that they were drawing the line in the sand, it was the position itself that they were drawing that line in the sand.

You can spin it however you want but two years ago the Cowboys were pretty damn clear that their philosophy was not to spend a lot of money on TBs because of the injury factor and their investment in the OL. To then take Elliott and make him the 8th or 9th highest paid TB in football would be a clear divergent move for the front office. Maybe they take Elliott but I think at that point, it's because their hands are tied and have no options.

And now for my last argument on this topic: Don't listen to anything Jerry says and take it as the gospel. He contradicts himself constantly.

 

[Stash]

You really should do your research before calling someone out. Perhaps go through my past post. Because in truth I've been pretty spot in with most my assertions.

Yeah, don't care. You make whatever claims about your credentials that you'd like. No different from anyone else. You'll puff your chest out when you get one right and have to be called on one the ones you got wrong.

As for the prediction, that was just for fun. Alot of things have to happen first for that to come to fruition.

Wow! That backtracking happened even sooner than I expected!