The case for taking Ezekiel Elliot at # 4

[jday]

Disagree with the facts surrounding the move all you want. It doesn't change the fact that they're true.

"True" in this case, is subjective. This really amounts to 1 mans opinion against another in world were there is no 100% right answer. But you can dilute yourself all you like.

 

[Stash]

See the years before Romo. Much the same with a completely different coaching staff. QB's that can run a pro style offense are rare. I know you would love to pidgeon-hole this issue to death and put it all on Garrett/Linehan, but there are a lot of moving parts to a football team and unless the guy responsible gives you a good insurance policy behind Romo, your hands will be tied.

Ignore the fact that there were well-established veteran quarterbacks in that 5-year list of futility. Guys who had and did win elsewhere when they played. Bill Belichick managed to win 11 games with a talent like Matt Cassel. The coaches you're trying to defend couldn't even look competent with him.

And are you actually trying to claim that Garrett and Linehan had no involvement in the quarterbacks brought to Dallas? Seriously?

 

[Stash]

"True" in this case, is subjective. This really amounts to 1 mans opinion against another in world were there is no 100% right answer. But you can dilute yourself all you like.

What's "subjective" about the facts presented? What's "subjective" about the fact that they won 1 game over 5 years without Romo?

Lie to yourself, but don't try lying to me.

 

[jday]

Ignore the fact that there were well-established veteran quarterbacks in that 5-year list of futility. Guys who had and did win elsewhere when they played. Bill Belichick managed to win 11 games with a talent like Matt Cassel. The coaches you're trying to defend couldn't even look competent with him.

And are you actually trying to claim that Garrett and Linehan had no involvement in the quarterbacks brought to Dallas? Seriously?

Bring it down a notch turbo and let us just agree to disagree. I have work to do...

 

[TheCount]

How? Draft trends really mean nothing if you stop to think about. It comes down to 1 thing: how a player is going to help your team. Not 31 other teams; your team. Devaluing of a specific position league wide really shouldn't impact the Cowboys thinking if a Rb of that caliber is critical to success. It really shouldn't. And if it does, at least we will be in the running for Fournette next year and will probably have a new coaching staff to boot.

Sure, but it's also a bit like saying ignore investing trends. That can result in a jackpot or going bankrupt, which might be the scenario you just described where things go so badly that everyone gets fired and you're right back where you started.

 

[Sydla]

Bring it down a notch turbo and let us just agree to disagree. I have work to do...

You can't really agree to disagree on an actual fact.

They are 1-12 with Garrett as head coach but Romo not playing.

 

[Redball Express]

You can say whatever you want about money but the Cowboys have been pretty clear about how they value the TB position in terms of the dollars they will throw at the position.

People need to stop with this silly, "we've never won a SB without a bellcow TB" nonsense because people can sit there and say things like "we've never won a SB without a very good to great defense" and then use that to justify not taking Elliott and instead going defense at 4.

The fact people expected any TB to dominate last year with the crap we had at QB and not having a fully healthy Bryant is bizarre to me.

With this OL, the Cowboys have given themselves the luxury of not having to invest top assets in TBs to put a solid to great running game out on the field. How do I know that? Because in 2014, they turned a THIRD ROUND TB into the player of the year in the NFL.

If they take Elliott at 4, he might be a very nice player for us, but it will be a waste of a pick IMO in terms of value and in terms of trying to put forth a complete team that can actually make a run at a SB.

Thanx for the reply.

We just see it differently.

I think more than anything..

I'm just ready for a new QB to lead the franchise and thats not going to happen either.

So I sit and type and have another day to kill before the draft.

Ahhhh.....

 

[jday]

Sure, but it's also a bit like saying ignore investing trends. That can result in a jackpot or going bankrupt, which might be the scenario you just described where things go so badly that everyone gets fired and you're right back where you started.

Not even close to the same thing, I'm afraid. Watching trends in the stock market will yield fruitful results. But trends in how and when players are drafted is a whole other animal. The problem with that line of thinking is that we are not talking hard unchanging unwavering numbers. We are talking about people and how they can help your team win. When looking at trends in football there are 32 teams weighing need against best player available. And in the war room, it all comes to who the decision maker decides to listen to on that given day. So while quite understandably the running back has been devalued as a whole in the NFL in this now pass-driven league, for the Cowboys specifically they need a running back...and in my opinion, no dime-a-dozen 3rd round or worse back is going to yield the results we all here want: Super Bowl.

 

[Alexander]

I will just leave this here.

 

[jday]

You can't really agree to disagree on an actual fact.

They are 1-12 with Garrett as head coach but Romo not playing.

That's not really what I was debating with you about...so now that it is clear you and I are having two completely different conversations, we can go about our ways unchanged and unscathed. Good day to you sir.

 

[Stash]

Bring it down a notch turbo and let us just agree to disagree. I have work to do...

It's fine to disagree, just do me a favor and try not to discount the facts that refute your opinions in the process.

 

[robjay04]

I will just leave this here.

One would think that he is trying to prepare the fanbase for Elliott. I still think if both QBs and Ramsey go in the top 3, he is the pick unless we get an appealing trade back option.

 

[jday]

It's fine to disagree, just do me a favor and try not to discount the facts that refute your opinions in the process.

My opinion is we should take Zeke; ideally with a trade down first, but I would take him straight up at 4 if a trade doesn't materialize. What have you said to refute that?

 

[Sydla]

That's not really what I was debating with you about...so now that it is clear you and I are having two completely different conversations, we can go about our ways unchanged and unscathed. Good day to you sir.

Actually you and I weren't having this conversation. You were having it with someone else. I just pointed out that you can't disagree with an actual fact. And that fact is that Cowboys are simply not very good under Garrett when they don't have Romo under center.

 

[Sydla]

One would think that he is trying to prepare the fanbase for Elliott. I still think if both QBs and Ramsey go in the top 3, he is the pick unless we get an appealing trade back option.

He also said that DL and pass rush is their top priority now. So he could also be preparing the fanbase for Bosa.

 

[Stash]

My opinion is we should take Zeke; ideally with a trade down first, but I would take him straight up at 4 if a trade doesn't materialize. What have you said to refute that?

I've mentioned the facts.

That it would cost more than what you could have signed a proven NFL running back for. And therefore would be a failure.

It would cost you your #4 overall pick for a position available every year in free agency. And one rarely ever drafted at the top of the draft anymore. Failure.

It would prevent you from filling bigger needs this team currently has. Failure.

It would be adding another running back to a group where both of the current performers have proven themselves, either here with this line, or elsewhere. Failure.

And then you've simply covered your eyes and your ears and shouted "I want Zeke!" anyway, all facts of the situation be damned.

 

[Sydla]

I think Elliott would be a fine player here. A very fine player here.

But if the Cowboys took him at 4, it would immediately, again, make me think that they simply don't have a plan to building a team. That they are haphazard in how they do things and that things they believe in 2 years ago change immediately because they feel boxed in, etc.

 

[iceberg]

He also said that DL and pass rush is their top priority now. So he could also be preparing the fanbase for Bosa.

gosh. after that bit of generic rah rah whoever has a pet cat has found it clear that's who we're taking.

 

[jday]

Actually you and I weren't having this conversation. You were having it with someone else. I just pointed out that you can't disagree with an actual fact. And that fact is that Cowboys are simply not very good under Garrett when they don't have Romo under center.

So, your assumption is Garrett sucks? I'm pretty sure that topic belongs in a different forum but I could be wrong. It definitely belongs in a different thread. Here's an idea. Start a Garrett sucks thread. That hasn't been done before. smh

 

[jday]

I've mentioned the facts.

That it would cost more than what you could have signed a proven NFL running back for. And therefore would be a failure.

It would cost you your #4 overall pick for a position available every year in free agency. And one rarely ever drafted at the top of the draft anymore. Failure.

It would prevent you from filling bigger needs this team currently has. Failure.

It would be adding another running back to a group where both of the current performers have proven themselves, either here with this line, or elsewhere. Failure.

And then you've simply covered your eyes and your ears and shouted "I want Zeke!" anyway, all facts of the situation be damned.

But if it led to us winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 years, would you still call it a failure? Not saying we will, just saying we won't with Dmac and/or Morris. But, again, that is simply my opinion.