The Cost of Meaningless Close Wins

[MountaineerCowboy]

What anyone on this board wants is meaningless as to whether the team goes 3-13 or 6-10. It's like I'm explaining this to children.

"Okay boys, we had a good week of practice. Now let's go out there and throw the game. Sure some of you are playing for contracts, and your careers, but that's not what matters. What matters is the Cowboys having the highest possible draft pick, even though several of you won't even be here next year."

That's how stupid it sounds, kids.

Honestly, I'm a fan of the Cowboys more so then the singular players that are on the team, so I couldn't careless about their feelings on their contracts and things like that. I mean, sure, I'm a fan of our guys but at the end of the day I want wants best for the future of the Cowboys over if "insert player here" gets paid or not.

What's best for the Cowboys the moment Daks leg twisted the other way would've been a top 5 pick.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Honestly, I'm a fan of the Cowboys more so then the singular players that are on the team, so I couldn't careless about their feelings on their contracts and things like that. I mean, sure, I'm a fan of our guys but at the end of the day I want wants best for the future of the Cowboys over if "insert player here" gets paid or not.

What's best for the Cowboys the moment Daks leg twisted the other way would've been a top 5 pick.

Yeah how about them 2008 Patriots? Brady tears up a knee, so they start playing for draft position, who wants to go 11-5 with Matt Cassel and not get a high draft choice?

Oh wait....

 

[CATCH17]

So you're benching guys who are good enough to win just to make sure you can lose? I'm sure that works great in Madden.

STOP EXPECTING COACHES AND PLAYERS TO THINK LIKE FANS. These are grown men playing for their jobs.

"Okay boys, we had a good week of practice. Now let's go out there and throw the game. Sure some of you are playing for contracts, and your careers, but that's not what matters. What matters is the Cowboys having the highest possible draft pick, even though several of you won't even be here next year."

That's how stupid it sounds.

Teams in all sports find different ways to put their teams in position to lose when talent acquisition is on the line and they know they aren’t going anywhere.

You don’t tell guys to tank.. You just play worse players and run riskier schemes.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

troy Aikman vs Tony Mandarich

Had to go that far back, eh?

 

[blueblood70]

Yeah how about them 2008 Patriots? Brady tears up a knee, so they start playing for draft position, who wants to go 11-5 with Matt Cassel and not get a high draft choice?

Oh wait....

no one wants to hear that common sense, how about the MIA dolphins in 2019 finished 3-2 closed out 2-0 nearly went 4-1 played fitz all the way to the end with Tua and others on the line..odd they played hard to the very end and still got lucky and got Tua..everyone said they were tanking, they in fact were NOT!! Did not, still got solid player..it carried over to 2020 where they got screwed out of playoff spot because PB tanked the last game to rest payers and LET CLE in as opposed to MIA..this what happens when you lose game on purpose , you allow team to get in and one not too..not fairs, its called integrity. PB got their Karma and got bounced round 1..yups..

you play to win, that it..

not sure how much worse we should have been, we played with 3rd string team most of the year..some fans with ridiculous threads, thought this one was dead but someone ha dot being it back..

 

[75boyz]

Captain Crash explained all the benefits to this situation on a very simple level last year. Some views supported a moral high ground while others advocated sacrificing for the best future of the team.
I chose the latter.

Another most polarizing topic for the Zone.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Jerry thinks every year we are making a superbowl run. he sells that to everyone every year.

Right. And I have no problem with it, most fans don't just listen to Jerry and nod their head like a bobble head doll. They watch, read and listen. Jerry doesn't "sell that" to me, and I think I'm as good a representation of Cowboys fans as most. Might smirk or roll my eyes at him, if it's obvious the team's not that great, but he's a positive guy, and that's always good for the team.

How many owners/gms/head coaches do you hear at the beginning of a season, when they're not a very good team say "Well we're gonna suck this year, folks get ready for a lot of losses, but please support the team anyway"?

Very few, if any. Not to say they won't say things like "we've got to improve/play better/have some players step up", etc. But that's not the same as dissing their own team...

 

[CATCH17]

Honestly, I'm a fan of the Cowboys more so then the singular players that are on the team, so I couldn't careless about their feelings on their contracts and things like that. I mean, sure, I'm a fan of our guys but at the end of the day I want wants best for the future of the Cowboys over if "insert player here" gets paid or not.

What's best for the Cowboys the moment Daks leg twisted the other way would've been a top 5 pick.

I actually don’t like this current group of players but I’m still cheering for the laundry they wear.

This is my least favorite group of Cowboys since I’ve been a fan and watching them is a chore.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Captain Crash explained all the benefits to this situation on a very simple level last year. Some views supported a moral high ground while others advocated sacrificing for the best future of the team.
I chose the latter.

Another most polarizing topic for the Zone.

You mean every fan doesn't all think the same? And won't change their view?



(Tongue in cheek comment, in case anyone doesn't understand that's what I meant).

The future is unknown. That's the problem for me. Just not in my nature to go with the "two in the bush" view, most times.


To each his own. I appreciate your view...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I actually don’t like this current group of players but I’m still cheering for the laundry they wear.

This is my least favorite group of Cowboys since I’ve been a fan and watching them is a chore.

Hey do like I do, watch but have zero expectations. Enjoy the wins, then promptly forget about it. On to the next game!

At least until they win another SB.

 

[CATCH17]

Hey do like I do, watch but have zero expectations. Enjoy the wins, then promptly forget about it. On to the next game!

At least until they win another SB.

These Cowboys are the entrepreneur / my brand / max contract even though I’ve won nothing Cowboys.

I don’t think anyone cares anymore about winning a championship..


Dallas is the most popular & most valuable team if they are just relevant so relevancy is our new standard.

 

[Blitzen]

A win. Simple as that. Some don't get it. No problem, to each his own.
I just can't picture a fan jumping up and down and celebrating a loss.

No one is cheering a loss. That's just stupid politic talk to discourage others for hoping for great draft position if the possibility of a super bowl run is not realistic.

I think a lot of you are from the old mindset of culture in the locker room, as though this was pre salary cap NFL or high school or a college football program. Huge money contacts and free agency have altered the ability to build a strong cultural foundation that can be passed from one generation of players to the next in modern NFL.

This organization is not particularly interested in building a strong foundation of good culture and hard nosed football. They are mostly interested in staying loyal to draft picks (that are loyal to the Lord) and jersey sellers and marketing the current team to maximize current cash flow. It works great for capitalizing current financial profit capabilities, but not so good at producing legitimate super bowl contending squads.

Some teams are ready to cut bait too quickly on teams because they want the group to produce high win totals within three years of taking over, but that is not always a realistic goal (too many variables at play). Plenty of teams even recently are showing how multiple top ten picks over 3 to 5 years can dramatically shift your win totals upwards if used properly and with well coached squads. Even Cleveland seems to have found some success with this approach.

Not every win has the same meaning to even the same teams' players. Same with win meaning for fans. You may feel greatly pleased and satiated with a win against another squad in the midst of a season with mounds of losses and no realistic hope for a championship run. But others are ready for more extreme change. Cowboys have been on a circle trajectory for a while now. I'm ready for a giant asteroid apocalyptic impact to move the needle either all the way up or all the way down. Going sideways is trying and like Yoda tells us, there is no try, there is DO or DO NOT.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Yeah how about them 2008 Patriots? Brady tears up a knee, so they start playing for draft position, who wants to go 11-5 with Matt Cassel and not get a high draft choice?

Oh wait....

How'd that 11-5 season end for em?

No playoffs and a low draft pick. Good for them! I'm sure they never wanted an opportunity for a top 5 rookie anyways.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I actually don’t like this current group of players but I’m still cheering for the laundry they wear.

This is my least favorite group of Cowboys since I’ve been a fan and watching them is a chore.

If Cowboys fans cared more about holding the team responsible rather then their favorite players that don't even know they exists getting paid or not this would be a much better fanbase.

 

[Ranching]

No one is cheering a loss. That's just stupid politic talk to discourage others for hoping for great draft position if the possibility of a super bowl run is not realistic.

I think a lot of you are from the old mindset of culture in the locker room, as though this was pre salary cap NFL or high school or a college football program. Huge money contacts and free agency have altered the ability to build a strong cultural foundation that can be passed from one generation of players to the next in modern NFL.

This organization is not particularly interested in building a strong foundation of good culture and hard nosed football. They are mostly interested in staying loyal to draft picks (that are loyal to the Lord) and jersey sellers and marketing the current team to maximize current cash flow. It works great for capitalizing current financial profit capabilities, but not so good at producing legitimate super bowl contending squads.

Some teams are ready to cut bait too quickly on teams because they want the group to produce high win totals within three years of taking over, but that is not always a realistic goal (too many variables at play). Plenty of teams even recently are showing how multiple top ten picks over 3 to 5 years can dramatically shift your win totals upwards if used properly and with well coached squads. Even Cleveland seems to have found some success with this approach.

Not every win has the same meaning to even the same teams' players. Same with win meaning for fans. You may feel greatly pleased and satiated with a win against another squad in the midst of a season with mounds of losses and no realistic hope for a championship run. But others are ready for more extreme change. Cowboys have been on a circle trajectory for a while now. I'm ready for a giant asteroid apocalyptic impact to move the needle either all the way up or all the way down. Going sideways is trying and like Yoda tells us, there is no try, there is DO or DO NOT.

Too long to read. I still like winning. Makes my scotch taste better. All of you young ones don't seem to get that draft picks aren't a sure thing. All I know is that winning makes me feel good. Salud!

 

[LACowboysFan1]

How'd that 11-5 season end for em?

No playoffs and a low draft pick. Good for them! I'm sure they never wanted an opportunity for a top 5 rookie anyways.

Since you want to lose games "for the future", let's see - Pats won the division the next year, and 11 straight years after that. Won the SB again a couple of years later.

Didn't seem to hurt them in the long run...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

If Cowboys fans cared more about holding the team responsible rather then their favorite players that don't even know they exists getting paid or not this would be a much better fanbase.

You don't get to decide what kind of a fan base this is.

Good thing that's the case...

 

[Reverend Conehead]

How'd that 11-5 season end for em?

No playoffs and a low draft pick. Good for them! I'm sure they never wanted an opportunity for a top 5 rookie anyways.

Would have you had them tank? 11 and 5 is usually good enough to get into the playoffs. In fact, it's rare not to with that record. They had a tough break in Brady getting hurt, but they made the best of it. You never know what will happen. Remember the 1999 Rams when their star QB, Trent Green, got hurt, they had to turn to an ex Arena League QB in Kurt Warner. You never know what could happen. That 11 and 5 Patriots team may not have made the playoffs, but they didn't know that's what would happen. They did their best, and that record with a journeyman QB is quite an accomplishment. It would have been ridiculous for Belicheck to have said to this team, "We don't have Tom, so just tank." That would have been so absurd it could only happen in some kind of parody movie. Professional athletes don't do that -- or if there are a few who do, they don't belong in the league.

The damage to their winning mentality would have been way worse than an 11 and 5/no playoffs year was -- and the fact is they're the most successful team in the league of the past two decades. A single non-playoff year doesn't appear to have hurt them too much. I strongly suspect a deliberate tank year for a high draft choice would have hurt their winning tradition much, much more. A loser mentality is the biggest enemy of any team.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Since you want to lose games "for the future", let's see - Pats won the division the next year, and 11 straight years after that. Won the SB again a couple of years later.

Didn't seem to hurt them in the long run...

Yeah, because the GOAT was the player that was injured. They went 11-5 without him as you stated, so they were already loaded and well coached.

We are not neither loaded or well coached. We was 1-3 with Dak and finished 6-10. There is a difference there.

 

[75boyz]

You mean every fan doesn't all think the same? And won't change their view?



(Tongue in cheek comment, in case anyone doesn't understand that's what I meant).

The future is unknown. That's the problem for me. Just not in my nature to go with the "two in the bush" view, most times.


To each his own. I appreciate your view...

Thanks, lol. Sometimes those opinion bouncers at the door try to get a little too intense. So when that happens, I just try to have my own last call and head out the door after it reaches that level.

Nothing like leaving a good old fashioned opinion brawl.