The defense will be better with Zeke

[CowboyRoy]

And let's note, the issue that really is the undercurrent of this entire debate is whether or not the Cowboys had to use the 4th pick in the draft to get "back to 2014".

Just know that we will never win another SB while Jerry drafts this way and continues to go short term.

 

[bsheeern]

If you didn't notice above, the defense couldn't stop anybody in the 4th quarter the previous year either, but that doesn't matter as much when your offense can score and you have a comfortable lead by the 4th quarter.
Dallas offense points per drive, 1st-3rd qtr (NFL rank)
2015 1.42 (27th)
2014 2.67 (4th)

Average starting field position for Dallas' 4th-quarter drives was our own 30-yard line in 2014, and our own 31-yard line last year.

Specific criticisms like that one are appreciated.

AGAIN sir that's the AVERAGE starting position. Again a BLANKET stat that holds no water when it comes to specific games and scenarios.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Who says the RB you pick has to match Peterson to be justified? Everyone had Zeke in the top 5 and despite the Cowboys defensive needs they had a need at RB. You match a back with Zeke's skill set with the top OL in the league and it's going to greatly improve your offense and lead to more TD's. All the top defensive players had holes. Most felt Bosa wouldn't have been a top 10 pick in most drafts and that Chargers reached for him. No one knows if Ramsey is a corner or safety. His ball skills were being questioned and the Cowboys have had terrible luck under Jerry drafting DBs. Zeke was the safest pick when the Cowboys were on the clock. He's a complete back with speed, power, a good receiver and an excellent blocker. He's the best pick we've made since Dez and if he stays healthy he'll take some pressure off Romo.

With Romo aging and coming off injury we can't afford to have him carrying the team like he did on opening day last season due to the lack of a running game. Our running game cost us some games last season especially the Tampa game where McFadden averaged 1.9 a carry on 17 carries. In the final 6 minutes with the Cowboys leading McFadden took a 7 yard loss which put us in a passing situation the next 2 downs and it led to a punt. We had an opportunity to milk the clock but gave the ball right back to the Bucs resulting in them winning the game in the final seconds. Both times Romo was injured last season was on long down situations due to the lack of a running game. The defense was able to pin their ears back and come after him.

Against Carolina McFadden had 3 negative carries in his first 7 attempts forcing Romo to have to press. We had no running game and the Panthers defense pinned their ears back and came after Romo. Now we have a threat in the backfield that's going to put some fear in defenses and take the focus off just stopping Romo and our passing game. We won't have the 3rd and one issues we had last season. Having a back that has breakaway speed and can punish defenders is going to improve the team.

Did you just call Zeke the best pick we made since Dez?

Yikes.

 

[KJJ]

And let's note, the issue that really is the undercurrent of this entire debate is whether or not the Cowboys had to use the 4th pick in the draft to get "back to 2014".

I would guess that most those who were against Elliott at 4, still recognize that he's a great talent and should do well with the Cowboys. The issue is could we have gotten 2014 level running from a later pick, which is exactly what we did in 2014.

To assure the Cowboys get a better RB than what they currently have they had to use the 4th overall pick on the top back in the draft. They got lucky with Murray most 3rd round backs don't turn out as good as him. To assure we come up with a potentially great runner we had to make the move we did. With the skill set Zeke has matched with our OL gives us the potential for offensive fireworks.

If you draft a back later in the draft and they play like a back drafted later in the draft you're back to what had last season...average! Why wait until the OL starts to age and we start losing some pieces to free agency before we decide to go after a great back? Now was the time to do it while we have a great OL.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And let's note, the issue that really is the undercurrent of this entire debate is whether or not the Cowboys had to use the 4th pick in the draft to get "back to 2014".

I would guess that most those who were against Elliott at 4, still recognize that he's a great talent and should do well with the Cowboys. The issue is could we have gotten 2014 level running from a later pick, which is exactly what we did in 2014.

The obvious answer being "No."

 

[KJJ]

Did you just call Zeke the best pick we made since Dez?

Yikes.

Yes I did and he will be barring injury. Why the "Yikes" would that be a bad thing him being the best player we've drafted since Dez?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

To assure the Cowboys get a better RB than what they currently have they had to use the 4th overall pick on the top back in the draft. They got lucky with Murray most 3rd round backs don't turn out as good as him. To assure we come up with a potentially great runner we had to make the move we did. With the skill set Zeke has matched with our OL gives us the potential for offensive fireworks.

If you draft a back later in the draft and they play like a back drafted later in the draft you're back to what had last season...average! Why wait until the OL starts to age and we start losing some pieces to free agency before we decide to go after a great back? Now was the time to do it while we have a great OL.

25 of 32 starting RBs were not 1st rounders.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Yes I did and he will be barring injury.

How do you ignore injury as a factor for a position that is notoriously injury prone?

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?

 

[bsheeern]

And let's note, the issue that really is the undercurrent of this entire debate is whether or not the Cowboys had to use the 4th pick in the draft to get "back to 2014".

I would guess that most those who were against Elliott at 4, still recognize that he's a great talent and should do well with the Cowboys. The issue is could we have gotten 2014 level running from a later pick, which is exactly what we did in 2014.

No haven't made that argument once. Maybe that's why you are getting mixed up. You've gotten your arguments crossed up.
No

That point was quickly refuted though one post later. LOL.

And then another point you tried to float got refuted about a minute after that.

No he basically threw out a average stat that was meaningless.

 

[Sydla]

Yes I did and he will be barring injury. Why the "Yikes" would that be a bad thing him being the best player we've drafted since Dez?

Because Tyron Smith was drafted in 2011 and is probably a better player than Bryant.

 

[bsheeern]

Define...."Produce", is your definition guided by pure numbers and nothing else?

I don't think he's quite answered that yet has he?

 

[Sydla]

No haven't made that argument once. Maybe that's why you are getting mixed up. You've gotten your arguments crossed up.
No


No he basically threw out a average stat that was meaningless.

One, you can have the argument you want but the reality is that the whole basis of the Elliott debate was whether or not we should have taken him at 4 or used that pick for another position like DB or DL and then gotten a TB a few rounds later.

Two, the stat isn't meaningless. It's actually quite meaningful, but since it refutes your claims you want to try to discredit it and minimize it. That's your prerogative but certainly isn't helping build the case that you are making a sound argument here.

 

[jnday]

And let's note, the issue that really is the undercurrent of this entire debate is whether or not the Cowboys had to use the 4th pick in the draft to get "back to 2014".

I would guess that most those who were against Elliott at 4, still recognize that he's a great talent and should do well with the Cowboys. The issue is could we have gotten 2014 level running from a later pick, which is exactly what we did in 2014.

It was possible, but no other RB is the complete package. They can run, but either they can't block or can't catch the ball out of the backfield.

 

[KJJ]

25 of 32 starting RBs were not 1st rounders.

How many of those RBs are "great" backs? Three of the top 5 rushers last season were drafted in the first round and two of them were top 10 picks.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

How many of those RBs are "great" backs? Three of the top 5 rushers last season were drafted in the first round and two of them were top 10 picks.

Yeah and one of them was washed up Dmac

 

[jnday]

Just know that we will never win another SB while Jerry drafts this way and continues to go short term.

If Zeke has a ten year career and is an impact player for those years, how is that short term thinking? Zeke is very young. It is very possible for him to be here and be productive for a long time.

 

[Sydla]

How many of those RBs are "great" backs? Three of the top 5 rushers last season were drafted in the first round and two of them were top 10 picks.

And we had one of those guys and you apparently don't think he's good enough to be a starter which is why we had to add Elliott.

So you have to admit it's kind of funny that you are citing as proof of your argument a guy that apparently isn't good enough for us. LOL.

 

[percyhoward]

AGAIN sir that's the AVERAGE starting position. Again a BLANKET stat that holds no water when it comes to specific games and scenarios.

Here are all the 4th-quarter drives.

2014

2015

 

[KJJ]

How do you ignore injury as a factor for a position that is notoriously injury prone?

There's an injury factor for every position. Just because backs suffer injuries doesn't mean you don't invest a high pick on one. Whether you draft a back in the top 10 or in the 6th round it doesn't reduce their chance of injury. We'll still have some sort of rotation next season with Zeke getting the brunt of the carries. I don't see the Cowboys using him like they did Murray in 2014 because they wanted to squeeze everything they could out of Murray knowing they would probably not re-sign him.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

There's an injury factor for every position. Just because backs suffer injuries doesn't mean you don't invest a high pick on one. Whether you draft a back in the top 10 or in the 6th round it doesn't reduce their chance of injury. We'll still have some sort of rotation next season with Zeke getting the brunt of the carries. I don't see the Cowboys using him like they did Murray in 2014 because they wanted to squeeze everything they could out of Murray knowing they would probably not re-sign him.

Backs get injured much more than other positions. And it is for that exact reason you shouldn't invest a high pick on one....unless you're convinced they are an Adrian Peterson.

Is Zeke an Adrian Peterson? Because if he isn't we messed up.

And you're exactly right that whether you draft a guy top 10 or int he 6th round that it doesn't reduce their chance of injury. It does reduce your cost of the pick (explicit cost and opportunity cost). That's the point KJJ. THAT'S THE POINT!