The defense will be better with Zeke

[Sydla]

There's an injury factor for every position. Just because backs suffer injuries doesn't mean you don't invest a high pick on one. Whether you draft a back in the top 10 or in the 6th round it doesn't reduce their chance of injury. We'll still have some sort of rotation next season with Zeke getting the brunt of the carries. I don't see the Cowboys using him like they did Murray in 2014 because they wanted to squeeze everything they could out of Murray knowing they would probably not re-sign him.

The injury factor for TBs is higher than any other position. You can't just ignore that. Further, the shelf life of a TB based on 2013 data is the shortest of any position in the NFL.

 

[KJJ]

Because Tyron Smith was drafted in 2011 and is probably a better player than Bryant.

Prior to last season Dez was regarded by many as the best player on the team. We've taken polls on the board and he's usually on top with Tyron nowhere to be found.

 

[bsheeern]

One, you can have the argument you want but the reality is that the whole basis of the Elliott debate was whether or not we should have taken him at 4 or used that pick for another position like DB or DL and then gotten a TB a few rounds later.

Two, the stat isn't meaningless. It's actually quite meaningful, but since it refutes your claims you want to try to discredit it and minimize it. That's your prerogative but certainly isn't helping build the case that you are making a sound argument here.

Actually the Thread is about whether or not Elliott Makes the Defense better. Which in turn led people like you, @percyhoward & @AdamJT13 to say that running the ball WELL or Being Good at it, Had little to no affect on winning in the NFL.

I'll give you a Meaningful STAT.
7 of the TOP 11 Running backs in 2014 in DYAR Made it to the Playoffs. 6 of the TOP 8 in DYAR made the playoffs. Do I need to keep going?

 

[Sydla]

Actually the Thread is about whether or not Elliott Makes the Defense better. Which in turn led people like you, @percyhoward & @AdamJT13 to say that running the ball WELL or Being Good at it, Had little to no affect on winning in the NFL.

I'll give you a Meaningful STAT.

7 of the TOP 11 Running backs in 2014 in DYAR Made it to the Playoffs. 6 of the TOP 8 in DYAR made the playoffs. Do I need to keep going?

Only problem is I never made that argument. I simply made the argument that people like yourself are overselling the "effect" Elliott will have on the D. And the whole "Elliott will help the defense" is part of the larger debate over whether Elliott was worth the 4th pick. I know you know that, so don't be obtuse.

 

[KJJ]

And we had one of those guys and you apparently don't think he's good enough to be a starter which is why we had to add Elliott.

So you have to admit it's kind of funny that you are citing as proof of your argument a guy that apparently isn't good enough for us. LOL.

McFadden isn't good enough to be a starter and he wasn't starting for us until Randle got injured and released. He was a Raiders castoff who's going to be 29 years old by the start of the 2016 season. Teams play the best players they have and some of those players wouldn't start for other teams. Had we re-signed Murray, McFadden would have ended up on another team playing behind some other back. We got stuck and had to start him and he produced like any average back would have produced behind a great OL which is why we drafted Zeke.

 

[CowboyRoy]

If Zeke has a ten year career and is an impact player for those years, how is that short term thinking? Zeke is very young. It is very possible for him to be here and be productive for a long time.

Not likely. You can get a good back from the 2nd round on. Henry would have been fine. You keep whiffing over the Henry comments. Whats the matter you got nothing?

 

[Sydla]

McFadden isn't good enough to be a starter and he wasn't starting for us until Randle got injured and released. He was a Raiders castoff who's going to be 29 years old by the start of the 2016 season. Teams play the best players they have and some of those players wouldn't start for other teams. Had we re-signed Murray, McFadden would have ended up on another team playing behind some other back. We got stuck and had to start him and he produced like any average back would have produced behind a great OL which is why we drafted Zeke.

And yet you are using him as proof to suggest that taking a RB in the Top 10 is worth it. How do you not see the hilariousness in that?

 

[Sydla]

7 of the TOP 11 Running backs in 2014 in DYAR Made it to the Playoffs. 6 of the TOP 8 in DYAR made the playoffs. Do I need to keep going?

How about 2015? I'll help you. Only 6 of 11 made the playoffs that year and two of them were on the same team - Williams and Bell.

And here are the 11 RBs rated by DYAR in 2014, with their draft position:

Murray - 3rd
Lynch - 1st
Charles - 3rd
Miller - 4th
Bell - 2nd
J. Hill - 2nd
Anderson - UDFA
Lacy - 2nd
Foster - UDFA
Gore - 3rd
Forsett - 7th

 

[bsheeern]

Here are all the 4th-quarter drives.

2014

2015

There's nothing there that equates to how well you ran the ball.

Only problem is I never made that argument. I simply made the argument that people like yourself are overselling the "effect" Elliott will have on the D. And the whole "Elliott will help the defense" is part of the larger debate over whether Elliott was worth the 4th pick. I know you know that, so don't be obtuse.

LOL so no comment on the Facts I posted about the running backs. You just passed that right up didn't you

 

[KJJ]

Backs get injured much more than other positions. And it is for that exact reason you shouldn't invest a high pick on one....unless you're convinced they are an Adrian Peterson.

Is Zeke an Adrian Peterson? Because if he isn't we messed up.

And you're exactly right that whether you draft a guy top 10 or int he 6th round that it doesn't reduce their chance of injury. It does reduce your cost of the pick (explicit cost and opportunity cost). That's the point KJJ. THAT'S THE POINT!

Backs have always gotten injured more than any other position it's the nature of the position. Regardless of their high risk for injury they were coming off draft board in droves during the 70s and 80s in the first round until the NFL became a passing league. The Cowboys have had 3 backs in their history help lead them to SB wins and they were all drafted in the first round.

The Cowboys obviously think Zeke could be special and he could end up being another AP who knows. He has the skill set to be great especially behind our OL. Drafting a player in the top 10 or in the 6th round doesn't reduce their injury chance but drafting a player in the 6th round as opposed to the top 10 greatly reduces your chances of coming up with a great player.

 

[Sydla]

There's nothing there that equates to how well you ran the ball.


LOL so no comment on the Facts I posted about the running backs. You just passed that right up didn't you

Actually I just did. Keep reading.

 

[bsheeern]

How about 2015?

And here are the 11 RBs rated by DYAR in 2014, with their draft position:

Murray - 3rd
Lynch - 1st
Charles - 3rd
Miller - 4th
Bell - 2nd
J. Hill - 2nd
Anderson - UDFA
Lacy - 2nd
Foster - UDFA
Gore - 3rd
Forsett - 7th

2015 6 of the TOP 10 made it

 

[bsheeern]

Actually I just did. Keep reading.

No you only asked a question about another year and then edited your post to add info. Nice try though

 

[Sydla]

2015 6 of the TOP 10 made it

And two were on the same team. So now almost half the TBs didn't make the playoffs. Further, as shown by you own stat, in 2014, of the 7 TBs in the Top Ten who made the playoffs............ only one was a first round pick. Which actually supports the case that the Cowboys didn't need to invest a Top 5 pick in a TB.

Thanks for helping us with that.

 

[KJJ]

The injury factor for TBs is higher than any other position. You can't just ignore that. Further, the shelf life of a TB based on 2013 data is the shortest of any position in the NFL.

So that means you don't draft the position? You don't think about shelf life you have to play for now because regardless what position a player plays an injury can end their career at any moment. For the Cowboys to be successful and keep Tony Romo on the field they need a great runner he can lean on.

 

[Sydla]

So that means you don't draft the position? You don't think about shelf life you have to play for now because regardless what position a player plays an injury can end their career at any moment. For the Cowboys to be successful and keep Tony Romo on the field they need a great runner he can lean on.

No, it doesn't mean you don't draft that position. What it means is that it might be wise to not invest a lot in that position because you could get a limited return on that investment given the highest level of injury risk, especially when evidence shows that teams get great running games without investing top picks in the position.

If Elliott gets beat up and craps out, that's a big blow. If the Cowboys took Dixon in the 4th and he gets beat up and craps out, the loss is far easier to swallow.

 

[bsheeern]

And two were on the same team. So now almost half the TBs didn't make the playoffs. Further, as shown by you own stat, in 2014, of the 7 TBs in the Top Ten who made the playoffs............ only one was a first round pick. Which actually supports the case that the Cowboys didn't need to invest a Top 5 pick in a TB.

Thanks for helping us with that.

LOL that was never my argument. Like I said you are getting your arguments mixed up.

 

[Sydla]

LOL that was never my argument. Like I said you are getting your arguments mixed up.

So you never argued that we needed to take Elliott at 4? You wanted Ramsey or someone else, instead?

 

[KJJ]

And yet you are using him as proof to suggest that taking a RB in the Top 10 is worth it. How do you not see the hilariousness in that?

It depends on the back whether they're worth a top 10 selection. Most felt McFadden was a top 10 talent back in 08 but injuries have hurt his career and he never became the player he was projected to be. That happens with a lot of positions in the top 10 do some research. The McFadden we have today isn't the speedster that came out of Arkansas 9 years ago he's at the tail end of his career. There were issues in his game when he was drafted like his stiffness out in space where he has trouble making defenders miss.

 

[Sydla]

It depends on the back whether they're worth a top 10 selection. Most felt McFadden was a top 10 talent back in 08 but injuries have hurt his career and he never became the player he was projected to be. That happens with a lot of positions in the top 10 do some research. The McFadden we have today isn't the speedster that came out of Arkansas 9 years ago he's at the tail end of his career. There were issues in his game when he was drafted like his stiffness out in space where he has trouble making defenders miss.

Again, it's funny that in trying to prove why a Top 10 TB is worth the selection, you use a guy who we already have that you want to replace.

I think you are missing the clear hilariousness in your position.