The divide of the Dallas Cowboy's fandom

[muck4doo]

Yes. Those were all great Cowboys. When Danny took over those players best years were behind them especially the defensive boys. The offense could have gone all the way if only the defense could of held up. That was their downfall at the time. In those Conference games it was the aging defense that let the club down. Danny's play was solid. In my memory anyway!!

That you are right on. They had great defensive players during those years who were still so much fun to watch, but years were catching up with a lot of them. They weren't in their prime anymore. However, I still thin the talent was there by far to take it all the way.

 

[muck4doo]

How come Landry wasn't able to scheme/gameplan a winning team with all that talent? Too conservative?

When you do the same thing over and over for years people eventually catch on.

 

[muck4doo]

This merits a new discussion. Great thread Trouty, and an interesting talk you started. Why do fans split on certain players. However, I think I'm derailing and that discussion on Danny White and Tom Landry needs a different thread. Will start that one on Monday after the game. Let's focus on Dak, Bease, and Zeke kicking some Whiners tomorrow.

 

[Trouty]

This merits a new discussion. Great thread Trouty, and an interesting talk you started. Why do fans split on certain players. However, I think I'm derailing and that discussion on Danny White and Tom Landry needs a different thread. Will start that one on Monday after the game. Let's focus on Dak, Bease, and Zeke kicking some Whiners tomorrow.

Looking forward to that thread, Muck! I think this one's ran its course, unless @haleyrules and I are gonna talk about Mexican lager and his Habs 24 championships

 

[Trouty]

This merits a new discussion. Great thread Trouty, and an interesting talk you started. Why do fans split on certain players. However, I think I'm derailing and that discussion on Danny White and Tom Landry needs a different thread. Will start that one on Monday after the game. Let's focus on Dak, Bease, and Zeke kicking some Whiners tomorrow.

And I very much appreciate the new route you guys took this thread in its later stages, no derailing at all, man!

 

[haleyrules]

That you are right on. They had great defensive players during those years who were still so much fun to watch, but years were catching up with a lot of them. They weren't in their prime anymore. However, I still thin the talent was there by far to take it all the way.

Yes. It really showed the 81 conference game with the dreaded pass from Montana to Clark...l still can not stand to watch it. Danny's most painfull loss.

 

[Ring Leader]

Yes. It really showed the 81 conference game with the dreaded pass from Montana to Clark...l still can not stand to watch it. Danny's most painfull loss.

Definitely his worst fumble.

 

[The Dark Bishop]

In the recent past, certain players/personnel have drawn a predominant amount of disdain from our fanbase -- Jerry Jones, Jason Garrett (especially the last two years), Nick Hayden, JJ Wilcox, Carr (depending on the day), even Greg Hardy.

Then, there were the fringe guys that towed the line of love and hate, depending on the particular fan -- guys like TWill, McFadden, Mo, Doug Free.

Now it's spilled over to fan favorites, guys that have done all they can to help the organization, and were at one point or another almost universally loved, two players specifically -- Tony Romo and Dez Bryant.

While Romo has always had his detractors for various reasons, most fans knew this guy was our backbone and always presented us a chance to win. The sole reason why we were even remotely relevant, and a cover up of a mediocre coaching staff and front office. At the same time, Dez was the guy that was the conduit for Tony and the endzone. Our guy we could count on to grab that ball in traffic and bring it down for 6.

Now, after a series of injuries to both players, the fandom is out and very vocal in their disapproval for our two Big Name, fan favorite players.

It's almost sad to see these two guys go down this path. Is this what happens as players age, as they go through various injuries. Is this a byproduct of a team that has toiled in mediocrity for over two decades, spilling out now into our assessment of our very best.

Perhaps it's because we have two new rooks, with sky-high potential on offense in Zeke and Dak, and they are simply pushing the older stars out the door.

Injuries happen, and, especially in the case of Dez, we should excercise patience, yet we aren't. With Tony, it's a bit more problematic, as his growing amount of injuries make it hard to defend him against his now growing amount of detractors (yet, I still try).

I get it, it's sports -- and perhaps that very simplistic statement answers my own question. Yet, I want to reflect with a post, how sad it is to see things going down the way they are. Especially since I'm new to a large fanbase that can hear my rant.

Awesome OP Sir and you deserve every thanks you have gotten.The debate has been great and we have stayed on topic for the most part (other than the NBA and NHL references. lol). I got to say, it was a great read considering I have worked 32 of the last 48 hours and am only now getting to respond to it. Sadly there is not much to add seeing we are over 13 pages deep and many of the posters have said all I care to say rather good or bad on the subject. That leaves me to quoting a few and hoping I do not get carried away.

Some fans need to stay out of their wives panty drawer.

First off I can not believe only one person responded to this. I had ten thoughts rush my head within seconds and while I could spend all day posting buttholish quips, I will refrain since this was 12 pages ago. Oh WTH, it deserves at least one more response. While there is something to be said about men that are domesticated by their wives and do the laundry, other reasons to rout around in the panty drawer, might be a little more sinister in nature and make many wonder why. lol

Don't tell me how to live my life.

You Sir is the reason I question the last quote. It scares me to think where you were going with that. Awesome reply BTW.

I think that's what it is too. Some fans haven't known anything but mediocrity. Some of us remember when going to the playoffs was a given and a bad year was when we didn't make a SB. We remember what a good organization looks like. Just sick and tired of the mediocrity. I was 30 the last time we won a SB. I'm 51 now. I'd like to see another SB before I die.

Amen Sir. While you may have another 10-40 years left (I hope for the latter), I feel your pain. We have a different perspective to this. We grew up seeing what could be and expected such. It does get hard seeing the Cowboys dealing with life since the salary cap. JJ can hang his hat on being a money man under the old rules, but we have yet to show brilliance under the salary cap. We can't just buy another SB win anymore. Not to discredit those won before JJ or the brilliance in Jimmy, but it is a different game now.

I'd assume the opposite. I know my own perspective has matured as I've gotten older. I typically assume the more impatient posters just haven't been around long enough to have perspective how the league really works. Which is what often gets them in trouble relative to the guidelines, coincidently.

That, or they're older guys who just are tired because they live in one of the other NFCE markets and they're tired of fighting the good fight and have sort of given up.

The second part of that quote speaks volumes. I am not fed up my any means, but I will say, wearing the Cowboys tie working in the Cheesecake Factory in Dulles VA as a server has been rough on Sundays the last 10 years. It is one thing to show your pride in a team, but another to get 8-10 percent tips when you are use to 20 percent plus any other day. I will gladly take that loss 2 weeks a year for the Skins and another loss for the few times we play the Ravens here and there. To be honest it would be much nicer if the loss was backed by a win, so I can at least deal with a day of crappy tips vs a day of laughter at my dedication and crappy tips. The only plus in this is we have won more at their stadium then our own.

I am a bit late to this thread (great OP by the way) so this may have already been touched on as a theme...I think a big factor in the dramatic swing of fan sentiment (up or down) is the amount of investment made in a given player/star contributor. I think that effects overall POV and expectations tremendously. It has been a tough turn of events for Tony and Dez - i.e., the injury bug came along right as they signed big contracts and/or extensions. Heck, the same can be said for Scandrick and Crawford and even Sean Lee...and yes, Doug Free, it could be argued, is in that category as well. I, for one, am beyond exasperated that it seems that our big signings of recent years to our top tier guys almost assures that the player will be dogged by an incessant string of injuries, ultimately resulting in that player not living up to the contract and the lofty fan expectations that comes with it. I mean SERIOUSLY...isn't it becoming almost like clockwork??! And now, God forbid, we might have Smith at OT going through the same experience (early signs). It's like signing a big contract with the Cowboys is tantamount to being on the Madden cover!?! smh...lol. Doesn't help that our FO is more than a bit lame in the injury assessment/prognosis department (or at least the disclosure thereof).

I think the big compensation is a big contributing factor in the overall reaction (not just from fans) in the case of many players (not necessarily those you mention in your initial examples). With much $ comes much responsibility...heavy is the head that wears the crown...blah blah blah.

While I agree full heartily, I think we need another year or two to say such for OT Smith. With that being said, I do fear each mega contract as of late. While I do not question their work ethic or even their heart, we have had some poor luck in player injuries since signing those to big contracts. I truly hope to see more injury clauses in the later contracts we sign. I get it is a dangerous sport and nothing is guaranteed, but just like players need to look out for themselves, the team does too.

I hear you. Its not an easy language!! Modelo is very nice and l think similiar to the German beer you enjoy. I have been looking for the German stuff here!! Plenty of Belgium but so far l only see boring ole Becks!!

It is rather hard to find but the double bock beers of Germany are excellent. The best one I have noted is called Salvator Doppel Bock by Paulaner Brauerei GmbH & Co. I got to say I order a Keg of it every month for myself and friends. Hope this helps.


EDIT: Forgive me for such a long post, I know better, but I saw a few laughs and a few points to mention. Also I am on beer 6 now. Sorry guys. lol

 

[Trouty]

Awesome OP Sir and you deserve every thanks you have gotten.The debate has been great and we have stayed on topic for the most part (other than the NBA and NHL references. lol). I got to say, it was a great read considering I have worked 32 of the last 48 hours and am only now getting to respond to it. Sadly there is not much to add seeing we are over 13 pages deep and many of the posters have said all I care to say rather good or bad on the subject. That leaves me to quoting a few and hoping I do not get carried away.



First off I can not believe only one person responded to this. I had ten thoughts rush my head within seconds and while I could spend all day posting buttholish quips, I will refrain since this was 12 pages ago. Oh WTH, it deserves at least one more response. While there is something to be said about men that are domesticated by their wives and do the laundry, other reasons to rout around in the panty drawer, might be a little more sinister in nature and make many wonder why. lol



You Sir is the reason I question the last quote. It scares me to think where you were going with that. Awesome reply BTW.



Amen Sir. While you may have another 10-40 years left (I hope for the latter), I feel your pain. We have a different perspective to this. We grew up seeing what could be and expected such. It does get hard seeing the Cowboys dealing with life since the salary cap. JJ can hang his hat on being a money man under the old rules, but we have yet to show brilliance under the salary cap. We can't just buy another SB win anymore. Not to discredit those won before JJ or the brilliance in Jimmy, but it is a different game now.



The second part of that quote speaks volumes. I am not fed up my any means, but I will say, wearing the Cowboys tie working in the Cheesecake Factory in Dulles VA as a server has been rough on Sundays the last 10 years. It is one thing to show your pride in a team, but another to get 8-10 percent tips when you are use to 20 percent plus any other day. I will gladly take that loss 2 weeks a year for the Skins and another loss for the few times we play the Ravens here and there. To be honest it would be much nicer if the loss was backed by a win, so I can at least deal with a day of crappy tips vs a day of laughter at my dedication and crappy tips. The only plus in this is we have won more at their stadium then our own.



While I agree full heartily, I think we need another year or two to say such for OT Smith. With that being said, I do fear each mega contract as of late. While I do not question their work ethic or even their heart, we have had some poor luck in player injuries since signing those to big contracts. I truly hope to see more injury clauses in the later contracts we sign. I get it is a dangerous sport and nothing is guaranteed, but just like players need to look out for themselves, the team does too.



It is rather hard to find but the double bock beers of Germany are excellent. The best one I have noted is called Salvator Doppel Bock by Paulaner Brauerei GmbH & Co. I got to say I order a Keg of it every month for myself and friends. Hope this helps.


EDIT: Forgive me for such a long post, I know better, but I saw a few laughs and a few points to mention. Also I am on beer 6 now. Sorry guys. lol

Well thanks for the kind words, friend. And doubly thanks for your interesting and lighthearted breakdown! I laughed out loud a couple times, but I suspect it's because I'm down over twice the amount of beers you are And the fact that you are funny

You have a way with words and a kind nature, I hope you post here more often. And continue to get those 20% tips! Bad tippers are horrible human beings. Or 80 year-old men.

 

[The Dark Bishop]

Well thanks for the kind words, friend. And doubly thanks for your interesting and lighthearted breakdown! I laughed out loud a couple times, but I suspect it's because I'm down over twice the amount of beers you are And the fact that you are funny

You have a way with words and a kind nature, I hope you post here more often. And continue to get those 20% tips! Bad tippers are horrible human beings. Or 80 year-old men.

Awesome reply. Again I love this thread and you have found away to get even the hardcore here responding in volume. As far as the 80yr old remark, they can be the poor tippers most of the time, but that is because they are living off their social security, so it is widely acceptable in their cases. lol The parts that burns my butt about waist high, is the Skins fan and their tipping after a loss regardless of the team that beat them. It is even worst if the Cowboys win. lol. It truly is a thing of beauty when we beat them at their stadium though. After you paid hundreds of dollars to support your team, you come to my restaurant and spend another hundred dollars or more to dine with a server that loves the team that (hopefully) kicked your butt, but has to try to be subjective to the beating. It is awkward but interesting all at the same time.

Edit: You do know Salvator is 8.9% alcohol right? Just saying while you are double be right now.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I don't completely disagree but when we "win," you may have a valid point. But right now, to deal with the constant silliness under the umbrella and guise of "passion" while going .500 or less with a couple of seasons better than .500 is really kind of a farce. Team chemistry matters and has an impact on the type of environment that is conducive to winning.

Yo bro, it aint a couple of seasons...............Garrett has just one single season in which the team won more than 8 games (2014).

We are now in year 6 of Garrett's tenure and he has just 1 single season with more than 8 wins.

And for all the Garrett supporters that are going to get pissed I pointed this out, remember that it is not a criticism, it is a fact.

 

[plasticman]

Like you said, what you're calling "productivity" plays a comparatively small role in wins and losses. By far the two defensive metrics with the strongest correlation to wins are points allowed per drive and defensive passer rating. In PPD from 2006-09, Dallas ranked 19th, 14th, 14th, and 3rd. In DPR, 21st, 5th, 21st, 17th. There's certainly nothing about 2006 or 2008 that suggests those were top 10 defenses.
You can't judge a defensive performance with an anecdotal tidbit. If you want to know how field position influenced points allowed from 2006-09, check our opponents' average starting field position from 2006-09, and be done with it. There were only 7 defenses whose opponent had worse starting field position. In other words, field position helped rather than hurt our defense during those seasons. Total non-issue.Point differential isn't even a defensive stat. It's offense minus defense, which means Romo and the passing game played a huge part in that ranking.
And in every case, those defenses played better in the postseason -- unlike the Cowboy defenses you're talking about.

During the Romo era, the only playoff-caliber defenses in the regular season have been 2007 and 2009. Compare their postseason performances with those of the three teams you referred to, using the stats that actually tell you something about defenses. In parentheses is how that playoff performance would have ranked that year in the regular season.

Defensive Passer Rating
2011 Giants 83.1 (15th)
2009 Saints 78.5 (12th)
2006 Colts 62.5 (1st)
2009 Cowboys 109.2 (32nd)
2007 Cowboys 132.4 (32nd)

Points Allowed Per Drive
2011 Giants 1.26 (2nd)
2009 Saints 1.79 (19th)
2006 Colts 1.00 (1st)
2009 Cowboys 1.88 (20th)
2007 Cowboys 2.63 (32nd)

When you take the average rank using the two best metrics, you can see how poorly Dallas' two "top 10" defenses played in the postseason, compared to other defenses ranked lower in the regular season.

Playoff Defense
2011 Giants 9th
2009 Saints 16th
2006 Colts 1st
2009 Cowboys 26th
2007 Cowboys 32nd

That's not to say the offense or Romo himself played well in those two postseasons -- they didn't and he didn't. But with those defensive performances, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Fair enough, we will say on a few occasions we had a really good defense. On most occasions we had at least an average defense.

However I was responding to the statement that our defense was always terrible during Romo's starting years here and it just isn't true.

As far as "playoff caliber" I also pointed out that some champions had defenses ranked around the 20's.

Also, you pointed out that the importance of defense is to stop the opponent from scoring. In the 4 playoff losses, 2 opponents scored 21 points, another scored 26. The Cowboys would have won those games, all they had to do was play up to their ability offensively. So to say that the Coiwboys couldn't win because of the defense is debatable.

The Cowboys had the Seatle game won. It wasn't the defense that changed that, I recall.

In 2007 the #1 seed Cowboys were trailing the Giants 21-17 with twelve and a half minutes left in the 4th quarter.The Cowboys had 3 great opportunities to win the game. Surely thos offense could score more than 17 points.

This is especially true when the defense holds the Giants to 2 steaight 3 and outs to finish the game. However three long drives yield nothing. The last play takes place on the Giant 23 yardline. The last play is an end zone INT.

Again, it wasnt the defense that threw that INT, they gave the offense three chances to win.

In 2009 the Cowboys won their first playoff game and must face the Vikings in the divisinal round.
Yes, the Viking scored 34 points, the most against the Cowboys in a playoff game since the 1994 conference game against the 49ers. However, consider that the Vikings were given the ball inside the Cowboys 20 Yard line as a result of the last two of Romo's three turnovers that game.

In fact, the Cowboy offense led by Tony Romo scored their season average number of points in only one of the six playoff games since 2006. That game featured consistently great field position due to the 5 turnovers produced by the Cowboy defense. If the Cowboy offense had reached its season average points then three of the four playoff losses would have been victories

In these three losses the defense did what it had to for Tony Romo and the offense to have a chance to win on their final drive. But with those offensive performances.......It didn't matter anyway.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Yo bro, it aint a couple of seasons...............Garrett has just one single season in which the team won more than 8 games (2014).

We are now in year 6 of Garrett's tenure and he has just 1 single season with more than 8 wins.

And for all the Garrett supporters that are going to get pissed I pointed this out, remember that it is not a criticism, it is a fact.

And then we look at someone like Doug Pederson and wonder how he is able to turn Philly around so fast.

 

[percyhoward]

Fair enough, we will say on a few occasions we had a really good defense. On most occasions we had at least an average defense. However I was responding to the statement that our defense was always terrible during Romo's starting years here and it just isn't true. As far as "playoff caliber" I also pointed out that some champions had defenses ranked around the 20's.

Again, those other teams' "around the 20s" defenses all played better in the postseason. The Cowboys' only two playoff-caliber (read: top 12) defenses played considerably worse in postseason. I say this a lot, but you really do have to look at every play of every game. While focusing on regular season rankings, you're leaving out the postseason performances of 2007 and 2009, just like you did 2014:

In 2007 Romo wasn't the lone Cowboy going to the Pro Bowl. 12 others went. In 2009 the defense shut out their last two opponents in the regular season to get them in the playoffs. They won their first playoff game in 15 years off the strength of 200 yards rushing and defense holding the Eagles to 56 yards running while producing 4 turnovers. In 2014 the Cowboys had the NFL's #1 rusher lining up behind Tony Romo. They had an All Pro WR, three All Pro offensive linemen, a future Hall of Fame TE.

Those 2007 defenders who went to the Pro Bowl for their regular season performance didn't stop the defense from playing at the level of 32nd in the playoffs (2.63 ppd, 132.4 dpr). The 2009 defense that shut out their last two opponents in the regular season played like a 26th-ranked defense in the playoffs (1.88 ppd, 109.2 dpr). The 2014 defense, which wasn't as good as those first two but wasn't terrible, played like a terrible defense in the playoffs (2.30 ppd, 103.5 dpr).

You pointed out that the importance of defense is to stop the opponent from scoring. In the 4 playoff losses, 2 opponents scored 21 points, another scored 26. The Cowboys would have won those games, all they had to do was play up to their ability offensively...the Cowboy offense led by Tony Romo scored their season average number of points in only one of the six playoff games since 2006...In these three losses the defense did what it had to for Tony Romo and the offense to have a chance to win on their final drive. But with those offensive performances.......It didn't matter anyway

You're not accounting for the number of drives in those games. In a typical 11-drive game, 21 points is an average defensive performance. In a slowed-down game where each team only gets 8 drives, it's horrible defense. The rankings below show where that game performance would have ranked for the entire season.

2007 vs Giants
offense 8 drives, 17 points (2.13 ppd - 7th)
defense 8 drives, 21 points (2.63 ppd - 32nd)

2014 at GB
offense 8 drives, 21 points (2.63 ppd - 2nd)
defense 8 drives, 26 points (3.25 ppd - 32nd)

2006 in Seattle was played at a normal pace, and the defense outplayed the offense in that game. But remember, in the regular season that defense (19th in ppd, 21st in dpr) played to the level of a 6- or 7-win team, which is what it would have been without Romo.

This can't be stressed enough: No team has ever won a Super Bowl without either a top 12 defense in the regular season (points allowed), or a defense that played to that level in the postseason.

 

[DogFace]

You make a lot of false conclusions. The folks you have an issue with are here day in and day out. You're point is meaningless except for the fact you like to complain. You're a broken record.

Define a lot

 

[Stash]

In the recent past, certain players/personnel have drawn a predominant amount of disdain from our fanbase -- Jerry Jones, Jason Garrett (especially the last two years), Nick Hayden, JJ Wilcox, Carr (depending on the day), even Greg Hardy.

Then, there were the fringe guys that towed the line of love and hate, depending on the particular fan -- guys like TWill, McFadden, Mo, Doug Free.

Now it's spilled over to fan favorites, guys that have done all they can to help the organization, and were at one point or another almost universally loved, two players specifically -- Tony Romo and Dez Bryant.

While Romo has always had his detractors for various reasons, most fans knew this guy was our backbone and always presented us a chance to win. The sole reason why we were even remotely relevant, and a cover up of a mediocre coaching staff and front office. At the same time, Dez was the guy that was the conduit for Tony and the endzone. Our guy we could count on to grab that ball in traffic and bring it down for 6.

Speaking for myself, my current attitude is heavily influenced by the 'been there, done that' sense of deja vu that we keep getting.

Romo was hurt once again last year, and this team's season was lost when he was. To have that now happen before the season even begins has an effect on a fan's level of hope and optimism. And Bryant now being hurt only further reinforces that feeling.

Did you notice the irony of using the term "backbone" while referring to Tony Romo?

Now, after a series of injuries to both players, the fandom is out and very vocal in their disapproval for our two Big Name, fan favorite players.

It's almost sad to see these two guys go down this path. Is this what happens as players age, as they go through various injuries. Is this a byproduct of a team that has toiled in mediocrity for over two decades, spilling out now into our assessment of our very best.

Perhaps it's because we have two new rooks, with sky-high potential on offense in Zeke and Dak, and they are simply pushing the older stars out the door.

Injuries happen, and, especially in the case of Dez, we should excercise patience, yet we aren't. With Tony, it's a bit more problematic, as his growing amount of injuries make it hard to defend him against his now growing amount of detractors (yet, I still try).

I get it, it's sports -- and perhaps that very simplistic statement answers my own question. Yet, I want to reflect with a post, how sad it is to see things going down the way they are. Especially since I'm new to a large fanbase that can hear my rant.

As I said above, speaking for myself, it's the awful feeling of seeing yet another season lost to injuries. Given my level of affection for this team, how much attention we all give to them, and how long we wait for the season to get here, I think it's understandable.

 

[Trouty]

Speaking for myself, my current attitude is heavily influenced by the 'been there, done that' sense of deja vu that would keep getting.

Romo was hurt once again last year, and this team's season was lost when he was. To have that now happen before the season even begins has an effect on a fan's level of hope and optimism. And Bryant now being hurt only further reinforces that feeling.

Did you notice the irony of using the term "backbone" while referring to Tony Romo?



As I said above, speaking for myself, it's the awful feeling of seeing yet another season lost to injuries. Given my level of affection for this team, how much attention we all give to them, and how long we wait for the season to get here, I think it's understandable.

Stash, while others have (they're ridiculous), I will NEVER question you or your loyalty and have told you before I get your qualms with Romo. You're a true diehard, and one of the top posters on this board, and have taken too much flak for your debates about Romo. Tho I don't agree with them, I respect them, because I respect you and have so for the three years I've been here.

Also, didn't realize my "backbone" comment and how it oh-so relates to our QB. Lol! Nice catch, man I'm never above humor

 

[Stash]

Stash, while others have (they're ridiculous), I will NEVER question you or your loyalty and have told you before I get your qualms with Romo. You're a true diehard, and one of the top posters on this board, and have taken too much flak for your debates about Romo. Tho I don't agree with them, I respect them, because I respect you and have so for the three years I've been here.

Also, didn't realize my "backbone" comment and how it oh-so relates to our QB. Lol! Nice catch, man I'm never above humor

Thanks for the compliments. The respect is mutual. Whether you agree with someone or not, you still manage to treat everyone with respect. Better than I can myself. I envy that. All too often, I let my emotions get the better of me.

Thanks again for the kind words, right back at ya!

 

[Stash]

And then we look at someone like Doug Pederson and wonder how he is able to turn Philly around so fast.

Yeah, but we can't get rid of Garrett, there just aren't any possible replacement candidates out there...

 

[Trouty]

Thanks for the compliments. The respect is mutual. Whether you agree with someone or not, you still manage to treat everyone with respect. Better than I can myself. I envy that. All too often, I let my emotions get the better of me.

Thanks again for the kind words, right back at ya!

Sometimes I have a hard time, myself. iIf you have a moment, read my back and forth with the dolt that is KJJ in the should Romo stay thread. Starts on page 4, I get mean lol we're not all above it, my friend.

Thanks for the kind word, Stash!!!