The DT Position

[Sydla]

Agree to disagree. I believe in bringing in playmakers and letting the coaches put them in best position to succeed. Cowboys liked Shazier and Mack, this kid can could be a combo of both. Coaches come and go, teams invest in their players. The smart ones anyway.

You are arguing something I am not suggesting. I am not questioning the kid's talent. I am not questioning his ability as a playmaker.

I am suggesting that he won't be used properly under Marinelli. Shazier was wanted as a MLB for us. He had a clear position here if Dallas took him.

What's Reddick's position in Marinelli's system? When have you seen Marinelli take a guy like Reddick and move him around and use him creatively? Rarely, if at all. And I suspect that Marinelli's system is blended into their board. Hence why we rarely ever see a true 1 tech high on the Cowboys board.

 

[BAT]

You are arguing something I am not suggesting. I am not questioning the kid's talent. I am not questioning his ability as a playmaker.

I am suggesting that he won't be used properly under Marinelli. Shazier was wanted as a MLB for us. He had a clear position here if Dallas took him.

What's Reddick's position in Marinelli's system? When have you seen Marinelli take a guy like Reddick and move him around and use him creatively? Rarely, if at all. And I suspect that Marinelli's system is blended into their board. Hence why we rarely ever see a true 1 tech high on the Cowboys board.

Reddick can play any of the LB positions. MIKE, SAM, back up WILL. And DE on passing downs. Marinelli has also been more creative of late, playing more dime than he's ever had. Playing more man to man. Blitzing more often than he's ever had. 3-2-5 is an atypical Marinelli scheme. Plus Marinelli is older than Methuselah so he could be gone in a year or two anyway. Again, would love to have him but if Takk or Tim Williams are taken instead I won't rue. Not too much anyway.

 

[Macnalty]

For good reason all of the talk had been on DT so far, but there are also some really DT prospects in this draft that could also have a big impact on our D. I'll highlight a few guys I like but please go ahead and add others you like as well.


Malik McDowell, Mich St- He's a bit of a tweener and not a 1 tech at all...but he is 1 heck of a pass rusher when he is on. Would have liked to see more consistency from him throughout the year, but he has a rare blend of athleticism and size at 6'5 280. Fights violently with his hands and long arms and uses a really nice swim move. Some boards have him in the teens which is a little high for me, but at 28 he'd definitely be worth it.
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/malik-mcdowell-vs-indiana-2016/

Caleb Brantley, Florida- REALLY like Brantley. He can play either the 1 or 3 for us. Sports a compact muscular frame that generates power and quickness. Consistently wreaks havoc on the pocket. Would like to see him finish plays and bring ball carriers down a little more consistently. Really can be a disruptive pocket crasher tho who is also good vs the run. Would definitely consider him at 28 as well
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/caleb-brantley-vs-vanderbilt-2016/

Jarron Jones, Nortre Dame- Missed all of 2015 with a knee injury and has other nagging injuries while at Notre Dame plus has never put up big production, but man does this kid flash on tape when healthy. Huge at 6'5 315 but plays with a sudden quickness and power. Manhandles opposing o lineman and can at least consistently walk his man back. Overall better athlete than you would expect as well, can bend and run for a big guy. Watch him below vs Miami, he's just downright mean to the o lineman at times. Would definitely consider him in the 3rd if all of his medicals check out, I run to the podium if he's still there in the 4th.
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jarron-jones-vs-miami-2016/

I think we have little chance at Malik McDowell, I do like M Adams his performance at the Senior Bowl was impressive. Rod will not pull a early pick on a Dlineman unless it is a extraordinary 3 tech. IMO
Thanks for the insight into Jarron Jones, nice find.

 

[Sydla]

I think we have little chance at Malik McDowell, I do like M Adams his performance at the Senior Bowl was impressive. Rod will not pull a early pick on a Dlineman unless it is a extraordinary 3 tech. IMO
Thanks for the insight into Jarron Jones, nice find.

Jones was a guy I was hoping would be there in the 4th. But I saw another article that suggests he's rising fast and if he performs well in workouts, he might even entice a team in the late 2nd round.

 

[Macnalty]

Jones was a guy I was hoping would be there in the 4th. But I saw another article that suggests he's rising fast and if he performs well in workouts, he might even entice a team in the late 2nd round.

Our 2nd round should still have some reasonable CB's available and maybe a falling WR/TE or Safety, the DE's will be picked through clean IMO I am liking the kid from UConn Obi Melifonwu a big safety who hits like a train. Another player who lit it up at the Senior Bowl.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189

 

[stilltheguru88]

Our 2nd round should still have some reasonable CB's available and maybe a falling WR/TE or Safety, the DE's will be picked through clean IMO I am liking the kid from UConn Obi Melifonwu a big safety who hits like a train. Another player who lit it up at the Senior Bowl.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189

Hits like a train? watch him again dude.

 

[stilltheguru88]

I think we have little chance at Malik McDowell, I do like M Adams his performance at the Senior Bowl was impressive. Rod will not pull a early pick on a Dlineman unless it is a extraordinary 3 tech. IMO
Thanks for the insight into Jarron Jones, nice find.

And that's why he still can't field a top 10 defense. He won a ring with a 1tech drafted 15th overall. If he was in charge of Tampa he wouldn't even have a damn ring. Would've thought McFarland wasn't quick twitch enough. I'm convinced Rod is a stubborn old fart who outsmarts himself

 

[Macnalty]

Hits like a train? watch him again dude.

I have watched him closely in the Senior Bowl practices and game. He can play also close to the line of scrimmage not Roy Williams from OU on hits but will never misses a tackle. This is very close to a Darren Woodson clone he is 6'4" and could play CB/S or LB if asked. Not just my opinion the NFL announcers noticed also, in the Senior Bowl south practices he stood out amongst some very good players like Rasul Douglas, Chidobe Awuze, Jourdan Lewis, and Desmond King. WR's had a time with him and his long arms you could see his influence on them. He went against Cooper Kupp and Zay Jones during practices both of whom are talented and will be drafted high. Here is a profile on him that was not impressed with his play. They still see his potential.
I still value your opinion if you see things differently.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189

 

[stilltheguru88]

I have watched him closely in the Senior Bowl practices and game. He can play also close to the line of scrimmage not Roy Williams from OU on hits but will never misses a tackle. This is very close to a Darren Woodson clone he is 6'4" and could play CB/S or LB if asked. Not just my opinion the NFL announcers noticed also, in the Senior Bowl south practices he stood out amongst some very good players like Rasul Douglas, Chidobe Awuze, Jourdan Lewis, and Desmond King. WR's had a time with him and his long arms you could see his influence on them. He went against Cooper Kupp and Zay Jones during practices both of whom are talented and will be drafted high. Here is a profile on him that was not impressed with his play. They still see his potential.
I still value your opinion if you see things differently.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189

That's cool.

 

[Macnalty]

That's cool.

What are you still doing up?

 

[stilltheguru88]

What are you still doing up?

lol I'm not in America

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Hits like a train? watch him again dude.

Agreed.

I have watched him closely in the Senior Bowl practices and game. He can play also close to the line of scrimmage not Roy Williams from OU on hits but will never misses a tackle. This is very close to a Darren Woodson clone he is 6'4" and could play CB/S or LB if asked. Not just my opinion the NFL announcers noticed also, in the Senior Bowl south practices he stood out amongst some very good players [...]
I still value your opinion if you see things differently.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/obi-melifonwu?id=2558189

Since the Senior Bowl draftbreakdown has put out a few complete games of his. He's not the thumper he's been purported to be. I think his coverage ability is the strongest part of his game and projects him as a FS prospect.

My interest in him would be to play SS but I seee some red-flags as he takes a lot of bad angles because he doesn't want to square up on the ball carrier and ends up getting flung because he tries taking guys down grabbing at their hips. On two plays against South Florida I saw him allow a big gain and TD on another because he was loafing in pursuit.

I think there is definitely some talent there but enough to make me wary of taking him in the 2nd round.

As for never missing tackles...The very first play of this clip he misses a tackle...

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/obi-melifonwu-vs-usf-2016/

 

[rwalters31]

Every year people want to draft a 1T high.

Every year those people walk away disappointed.

Frankly I stand with the brain trust on this. Not worth investing there early.

Also, if your bar for success is 10 sacks as a rookie... You're almost always going to be disappointed no matter where you pick in the draft.

DT, DT, DT, DT, . . . . . . . . . . . DT! If you want to put pressure on the QB, stop the RB, disrupt the offensive play, then the DT position is the number one way to do that. When you push the pocket back into the back field the options for the QB decease 90% and makes the DE and LBS 100% more effective. If you want to stop a running game there is no more effective way than to catch the RB in the back field. The DT is the most important position on the defensive team. All great defenses have a push up the middle and the rest of the defense is made much, much better.

So, if you want the defense to get much better who do you draft?? DT, DT, DT, . . . . . . . . DT.

 

[stilltheguru88]

I've come to grips that DT will only be drafted mid-late

 

[Macnalty]

Agreed.



Since the Senior Bowl draftbreakdown has put out a few complete games of his. He's not the thumper he's been purported to be. I think his coverage ability is the strongest part of his game and projects him as a FS prospect.

My interest in him would be to play SS but I seee some red-flags as he takes a lot of bad angles because he doesn't want to square up on the ball carrier and ends up getting flung because he tries taking guys down grabbing at their hips. On two plays against South Florida I saw him allow a big gain and TD on another because he was loafing in pursuit.

I think there is definitely some talent there but enough to make me wary of taking him in the 2nd round.

As for never missing tackles...The very first play of this clip he misses a tackle...

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/obi-melifonwu-vs-usf-2016/

I hope you see the talent even though you pointed out some warts. He should be on our menu in the 2nd rd. I like his talent and 2nd rd would be our only chance at him as of Feb 2017. I am in the groupthink of taking rd1 a talented BPA/ Edge because a DB of starting talent will be available in the second and the Edge players available after our first pick are not BPA candidates till about the late third with e.g.Jourdan Willis Kansas St and Trey Hendrickson FL atlantic. .
I think the South practices at the Senior Bowl made me a believer he was clearly the best guy out there in the drills, scrimmages they played and was a thumper during practice. Thanks for the link, his calling card is a sure tackler with great coverage skills that blossomed at the Senior Bowl, I think the combine will advance his value. Is he a sure thing in the second, I would not bet my house on him but he is a player that is clearly ascending and one would be foolish to ignore his talent completely with our second pick. He has the length and size to cover, and the solid change of direction skills to play any one of the defensive backfield positions inside the red zone. Obi can play in your defensive back field or he could became a outside linebacker because of his ability to tackle and this means …he could be that catalytic player(like Darren Woodson) making others better. Let's discuss his value after the combine.

 

[Sydla]

The site operators should just bring back all the posts from Feb and March of 2016.......... the ones that said the pass rush will be fine with better DT play so we don't need to find great DEs.

I suspect what will happen is we will ham and egg the DE spot again, people will talk about how much better it will be in 2017 and then in Feb and March of 2018 we will be having the same conversation again.

 

[tm1119]

The site operators should just bring back all the posts from Feb and March of 2016.......... the ones that said the pass rush will be fine with better DT play so we don't need to find great DEs.

I suspect what will happen is we will ham and egg the DE spot again, people will talk about how much better it will be in 2017 and then in Feb and March of 2018 we will be having the same conversation again.

When have we had good DT play??

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Every year people want to draft a 1T high.

Every year those people walk away disappointed.

Frankly I stand with the brain trust on this. Not worth investing there early.

Also, if your bar for success is 10 sacks as a rookie... You're almost always going to be disappointed no matter where you pick in the draft.

I thought about this the other day too. It'd be a fun exercise to go back and look at all the 1-techs some folks were pining away for. Off the top, I can think of Terrance Cody, Jesse Williams, Alameda Ta'amu, lol.

 

[Sydla]

When have we had good DT play??

DT play was better than DE play this past year.

Stop deluding yourselves into thinking that if we just get really good DT play the DEs will take care of themselves. We need an upgrade of talent at DE. Substantial upgrade if you want a team capable of being able to harass elite QBs in big games.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

DT, DT, DT, DT, . . . . . . . . . . . DT! If you want to put pressure on the QB, stop the RB, disrupt the offensive play, then the DT position is the number one way to do that. When you push the pocket back into the back field the options for the QB decease 90% and makes the DE and LBS 100% more effective. If you want to stop a running game there is no more effective way than to catch the RB in the back field. The DT is the most important position on the defensive team. All great defenses have a push up the middle and the rest of the defense is made much, much better.

So, if you want the defense to get much better who do you draft?? DT, DT, DT, . . . . . . . . DT.

I said 1T. The 3T is very important in our defense and it is one of the reasons we paid Crawford what we did. Noboy is saying the DT position is not important, what i'm saying is drafting a 1T high is not smart in our scheme.