The Elite QB Farce

[Diehardblues]

And add Tannehill's games against NE and BAL.

On the other side is KC and Mahomes.

Both serve to show us that there are different ways to go about building a true contender but both have the same thing in common, there must be a blueprint, a plan to build by.

One final four team had an elite QB and won and the other lost with the other two teams with mid tier QB's like Prescott.

Yep

But what team is more likely to remain a contender for years to come?

I’d argue the Chiefs with Mahomes much like the Packers have been with Rodgers reaching their 5th championship game with Aaron in the conversation every year despite his supporting cast.

Narrowing the argument to only winning championships is an attempt to lessen the importance of having an Elite QB. Because without one your window isn’t going to open as long because the Cap will shred apart whatever supporting cast you surround a lesser QB with especially after you pay them.

The best window to win a championship with a less than Elite QB is on their Rookie contract. Or a defense before you have to pay everyone.

 

[Philmonroe]

Yep

But what team is more likely to remain a contender for years to come?

I’d argue the Chiefs with Mahomes much like the Packers have been with Rodgers reaching their 5th championship game with Aaron in the conversation every year despite his supporting cast.

Narrowing the argument to only winning championships is an attempt to lessen the importance of having an Elite QB. Because without one your window isn’t going to open as long because the Cap will shred apart whatever supporting cast you surround a lesser QB with especially after you pay them.

The best window to win a championship with a less than Elite QB is on their Rookie contract. Or a defense before you have to pay everyone.

I agree on the best window because how long can the 9ers keep all that talent together? The dline is all early first rd picks too iirc. They'll have a run similar to Seattle of about 3-5 years before the cap probably messes them up too unless they all take hometown discounts.

 

[Diehardblues]

Agreed on Mahomes. Perfect matching of offensive scheme and hyper-talented QB. He's on an island all his own right now.

And could be for an era pending his health.

Its why in Cap era an Elite QB is most proven method of staying a consistent contender year after year despite the supporting cast and roster churns.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree on the best window because how long can the 9ers keep all that talent together? The dline is all early first rd picks too iirc. They'll have a run similar to Seattle of about 3-5 years before the cap probably messes them up too unless they all take hometown discounts.

Right

At some point JimmyG will need to carry them much like Wilson is being asked to now for Seattle.

The Cap era reformulated how teams are built and maintained. It’s raised the importance of the QB talent level because you have to pay them. They basically turn out to be the only one you protect into their Third contracts.

 

[Aviano90]

You don't seem satisfied from your post on here sir. I didn't brag about nothing sir. I said you seem like abc and you got heated. I can't belittle anybody sir. I don't have an idea outside of context clues and I don't act as if everyone is poor. That's a another trick you people use. The I'm talking about you but you make it about everyone to gain sympathy routine. Well if you say its low class maybe it is because that's something you know about so I'll work on being more "high class". I'm not a fossil so if you stupidly believe every person with money esp someone that's young is going to act like someone again decades older just goes to show you how clueless you are on this topic.

Oh, my bad. You just do that to Dak “groupies” if they happen to suggest Dak may be more than average which triggers you into arguing with them. Because you really just want to remind them Dak is average. I stand corrected.

 

[Kwyn]

That's so far from the truth it's laughable.

Let me ask you a question, when did Romo reach his ceiling?

Expletive your outlier claims show the proof that most players keep going up and up and up. I think Romo stopped his big improvements around the same time Dak did like his 4/5 year starting. He did something different here and there but I didn't see any big changes in his game after around the point Dak is at now. Hell his stats even show as much too if you care to look at them. I do wish you people that are super on Daks cleats stop with the lazy mention of Romo every expletive time Dak is mentioned. That's that lazy low education stuff seriously. Can't y'all have a defense that doesn't bring up Romo consistently?

I have one that doesn’t include Romo
Drew Brees

“lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws”

“Drew Brees did not throw well at the combine, but that was not the biggest problem he had in Indianapolis. His stock took a major hit because he initially was measured at a shade under 6'0". That was one thing that most of the scouts were most interested in about Brees.”

he got a combine report grade of “F”
http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=5788

“Drew is a more highly rated prospect, but he is very similar to Denver Broncos quarterback Brian Griese when he came out of Michigan.”

When it comes to comparing Dak and Brees after year four, Dak makes Brees actually look like Brian Griese

Brees was not good in San Diego Check the link below.

Dak’s performance through year four blows Brees out of the water and it’s not even close

Brees made the Pro Bowl in year four
Dak has already been in two

Brees won his first playoff game in year six
Dak won his first in year three

here is a stats comparison
http://pfref.com/tiny/85OTl

Do I think Dak will ever be the QB that Brees became? Hell no. That would be insane. I’d be happy if Dak could improve on his reads, game management and footwork. If he does that I think he could be a good QB and more than good enough to be part of a championship team.

But!!! This talk about Dak having already reached his peak and his scouting report showing that he has insurmountable problems that will doom him to mediocrity are straw man arguments that don’t make much sense in the real world

I’m using Brees as an example of how wrong scouts can be and how wrong it is to look at a QB after year four and assume that they will never get better.

Brees proved that and not even by a little bit.

 

[Philmonroe]

Oh, my bad. You just do that to Dak “groupies” if they happen to suggest Dak may be more than average which triggers you into arguing with them. Because you really just want to remind them Dak is average. I stand corrected.

I don't call you a groupie because you like Dak but I see your type likes to be a victim so victim on.

 

[Kwyn]

I will correct you because you mixed and matched what I said. I never said nobody can improve from their scouting report sir. If that's what you thought no that's not what I meant or think I said to be honest. I said a lot of Daks problems are problems that he had on his scouting report.

These are your exact words that I was responding to

This point doesn't really have to do with Dak specifically but any player. Most players don't keep going up and up and up. Hell even in real life if you lift weights or do most activities you don't just keep improving year after year after year. That's life in most cases. Dak has been here 4 going on 5 years and his main troubles were troubles that were in his scouting report but y'all think he's magically going to improve them on a full time basis now? That's blind hope than anything based in reality.

My apologies if I misread your intent.

 

[Aviano90]

I don't call you a groupie because you like Dak but I see your type likes to be a victim so victim on.

And you keep being a hater and a liar.

 

[Kwyn]

No, I don’t wish my family gave me a silver spoon. I am totally satisfied with my life just the way it is and I don’t need to brag about it to strangers on an internet message board in an attempt to belittle someone they are arguing with. Someone who you actually have no idea what their net worth is all while acting as if everyone here is poor and you just happen to be the only person with some wealth and education. It screams of low class

Why the hell are you two arguing about genetics, your college educations and how much money each other’s families make?

let’s talk football!

 

[Diehardblues]

Oh, my bad. You just do that to Dak “groupies” if they happen to suggest Dak may be more than average which triggers you into arguing with them. Because you really just want to remind them Dak is average. I stand corrected.

Dak could be enough to win a championship. I have felt we needed to do it during his Rookie contract but it’s still possible just not as likely with his dependence on the supporting cast which I’m not sure what more we can add on offense ? Maybe another All Pro TE.

And defensively this is best defense we’ve had since Parcells. Does it need some tweaks ? Sure but a top 10 defense should be enough for a top ranked offense which is over hyped IMO.

It can move the ball but struggles scoring against the better defenses and teams. It gets off to slow starts. And can’t overcome deficits of 7 points or more. It’s strength in running game is neutralized against better teams because they force Dak to beat them.

Im not sure how we fix it against the better teams with this QB. If it’s not coaching then we are fixing to commit to a problem that will deter us for the next 4-5 years as the Cap will decrease his supporting cast.

 

[Philmonroe]

One thing is definitive, Dak was a much better QB than Drew Brees through 4 years


I have one that doesn’t include Romo

Drew Brees

“lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws”

“Drew Brees did not throw well at the combine, but that was not the biggest problem he had in Indianapolis. His stock took a major hit because he initially was measured at a shade under 6'0". That was one thing that most of the scouts were most interested in about Brees.”

he got a combine report grade of “F”
http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=5788

“Drew is a more highly rated prospect, but he is very similar to Denver Broncos quarterback Brian Griese when he came out of Michigan.”

When it comes to comparing Dak and Brees after year four, Dak makes Brees actually look like Brian Griese

Brees was not good in San Diego Check the link below.

Dak’s performance through year four blows Brees out of the water and it’s not even close

Brees made the Pro Bowl in year four
Dak has already been in two

Brees won his first playoff game in year six
Dak won his first in year three

here is a stats comparison
http://pfref.com/tiny/85OTl

Do I think Dak will ever be the QB that Brees became? Hell no. That would be insane. I’d be happy if Dak could improve on his reads, game management and footwork. If he does that I think he could be a good QB and more than good enough to be part of a championship team.

But!!! This talk about Dak having already reached his peak and his scouting report showing that he has insurmountable problems that will doom him to mediocrity are straw man arguments that don’t make much sense in the real world

I’m using Brees of an example of how wrong scouts can be and how wrong it is to look at a QB after year four and assume that they will never get better.

Brees proved that and not even by a little bit.

I understand you want Dak to be something he's not. You want to mix and match things to fit whatever narrative that you're not changing on. I get it so you know what I'm going to just say you're right Dak can be whatever you think he can be. I don't agree sir and we will have to wait until September to see whats what. I think we can agree on that?

 

[CouchCoach]

Yep

But what team is more likely to remain a contender for years to come?

I’d argue the Chiefs with Mahomes much like the Packers have been with Rodgers reaching their 5th championship game with Aaron in the conversation every year despite his supporting cast.

Narrowing the argument to only winning championships is an attempt to lessen the importance of having an Elite QB. Because without one your window isn’t going to open as long because the Cap will shred apart whatever supporting cast you surround a lesser QB with especially after you pay them.

The best window to win a championship with a less than Elite QB is on their Rookie contract. Or a defense before you have to pay everyone.

You act as if elite QB's are plentiful, just pick one.

Having Prescott is like having a wife that is a 7. But you want a 9. So, you dump the 7 to find a 9 but discover there aren't as many as your thought and end up with a 5, watching reality TV and finding new hobbies.

Teams saw Goff and Wentz as possible elite's, just as teams will do so with Burrow, Tua and Herbert in this draft but it is all risk. The difference is the teams that will most likely take those QB's do not have a Prescott that they know about.

The one thing I will completely agree with is they should have been taking more QB's on the 2nd day to give themselves some options. They don't have much leverage with Prescott and his agent. GB got Rodgers to get rid of Favre and KC did the same with Mahomes and Smith.

The problem with team strategy is they wait until they need something and have to pay more for it.

 

[Philmonroe]

These are your exact words that I was responding to


My apologies if I misread your intent.

You keep misreading stuff because you keep mixing and matching different post of mine with no expletives given about the context that each individual post is speaking on. That stuff is annoying to be honest sir but maybe that's what you're trying to to do instead of actually have a regular discourse.

 

[Philmonroe]

And you keep being a hater and a liar.

Still better than you though so I'm good with that sir.

 

[Aviano90]

Why the hell are you two arguing about genetics and how much money each other’s families make?

let’s talk football!

I know, I know. I’ve stooped to his level.

 

[Aviano90]

Still better than you though so I'm good with that sir.

You are a better liar, I agree!

 

[Kwyn]

I understand you want Dak to be something he's not. You want to mix and match things to fit whatever narrative that you're not changing on. I get it so you know what I'm going to just say you're right Dak can be whatever you think he can be. I don't agree sir and we will have to wait until September to see whats what. I think we can agree on that?

Sure, of course.

I never said Dak will be “something he’s not” because I don’t buy into the entire premise that by year 4 QB has peaked and can’t improve.

I’m quite open to the possibility that Dak will never be better than what he’s show us.

Are you open to the possibility that he could?

 

[Philmonroe]

You are a better liar, I agree!

Your kind need to hold to anything you can. You can have that it means nothing to me but let's talk football not your insecurities over my life you don't believe ok.

 

[Philmonroe]

Sure, of course.

I never said Dak will be “something he’s not” because I don’t buy into the entire premise that by year 4 QB has peaked and can’t improve.

I’m quite open to the possibility that Dak will never be better than what he’s show us.

Are you open to the possibility that he could?

I don't care what you buy into. No offense because typed that sounds harsh. I'm stating what I buy into and showing you how life shows you most times this is the case. Y'all are hoping he becomes something he hasn't consistently shown he is. I'm a Cowboys fan so of course I'm open to it but I don't wish about it either. I let on the field play show me. Just like a person that has been out of shape for years could finally decide to get serious and lose that weight. If they've been bsing for years until they actually show improvement I'm not going to just give them credit just because. If I'm wrong so be it. It won't be the first or last time.