The entire projected 2013 defensive line is gone

[arglebargle]

Get back to me when we sign somebody who isn't a spare that nobody else wants.

We just lost two Pro Bowl caliber players and replaced them with scraps.

No sugar coating that.

So, when they get injured, and we shoulda known they weren't going to be playing well, it's Jerry's fault. But when they get cut, they are now Pro Bowl players, and it's Jerry's fault.

There are certainly problems with the team that Jerry's responsible for. But for a certain subset of the fans, I swear if a meteorite hit the lockerroom, it'd be blamed on Jerry.

The Cowboys played more defensive linemen last year than any other team in the NFL over the last five years. By a wide margin. The entire second echelon got knocked out, as well as some projected starters. Maybe some of that was forseable. But having everyone get knocked out/injured as they were? Nope. Predict that, and you should be counting your lottery winnings.

 

[arglebargle]

um, hatcher had to replace someone. that was his only probowl appearance in his NFL career. ware, 32, injury riddled, just wasn't the same whether here or in denver. i'm not trying to bad mouth either player. i was glad they were on the team. but i'm not going to think that ware would suddenly be 27 again or that hatcher, in his 1st 5 years here only started ONE game, was suddenly the core of our defense. again, hatcher only did well in a contract year.

i'm leary of that regardless of who it is. i can't think of many players, esp at that age, who got a big paycheck and lived up to it.

i swear to god, people whine and moan if we overpay, or they whine and moan we didn't.

Yep. If it was Belicheck doing this, people would be sagely nodding and remarking how it was wise to cut them a year early, rather than a year late.

 

[Doc50]

I dont see how we could be worse next year on D. Now we might not be good but worse lol good lord kill me now.

Now that's funny. Sounds like a true fan. We've all probably thrown the remote and stopped out of the TV room saying something similar.

 

[iceberg]

Yep. If it was Belicheck doing this, people would be sagely nodding and remarking how it was wise to cut them a year early, rather than a year late.

it just seems in their rush to be angry all the time, *NO* right move can ever be made. they'll whine ware is paid too much and when cut, they whine he was either cut or we don't sign someone just like him.

 

[Doc50]

Now that's funny. Sounds like a true fan. We've all probably thrown the remote and stopped out of the TV room saying something similar.

stomped

 

[iceberg]

stomped

hey, let him stopped if that's what he wants to do.

 

[ufcrules1]

You mean that same group that led the league's worst defense? How much of a net loss is that, really?

It's not a loss at all, it's a gain. They are finally making the right moves and not overpaying for aging vets who are used to losing.

 

[visionary]

Yep. If it was Belicheck doing this, people would be sagely nodding and remarking how it was wise to cut them a year early, rather than a year late.

So people give more credence to someone who has a long track record of success and not to someone who had a long track record of failure ?

Who a thunk it!!

 

[Stash]

um, hatcher had to replace someone. that was his only probowl appearance in his NFL career. ware, 32, injury riddled, just wasn't the same whether here or in denver. i'm not trying to bad mouth either player. i was glad they were on the team. but i'm not going to think that ware would suddenly be 27 again or that hatcher, in his 1st 5 years here only started ONE game, was suddenly the core of our defense. again, hatcher only did well in a contract year.

i'm leary of that regardless of who it is. i can't think of many players, esp at that age, who got a big paycheck and lived up to it.

i swear to god, people whine and moan if we overpay, or they whine and moan we didn't.

And others just want to pump sunshine, no matter what the reality of the situation is...

Say whatever you want about the situation, we went from two in-demand, productive players to two spares that nobody was chasing after.

Interpret things however you want to after the fact.

If you want to think that this is an improvement? Feel free to do so.

I'm not whining or moaning about it, despite your failed attempt to paint it that way.

I'm acknowledging the FACT that this team got WEAKER from a talent standpoint, not STRONGER.

Sorry if the reality of the situation is troubling for you.

 

[Stash]

So, when they get injured, and we shoulda known they weren't going to be playing well, it's Jerry's fault. But when they get cut, they are now Pro Bowl players, and it's Jerry's fault.

There are certainly problems with the team that Jerry's responsible for. But for a certain subset of the fans, I swear if a meteorite hit the lockerroom, it'd be blamed on Jerry.

The Cowboys played more defensive linemen last year than any other team in the NFL over the last five years. By a wide margin. The entire second echelon got knocked out, as well as some projected starters. Maybe some of that was forseable. But having everyone get knocked out/injured as they were? Nope. Predict that, and you should be counting your lottery winnings.

What does this have to do with the fact that we now have a net loss in terms of talent?

 

[Stash]

Yep. If it was Belicheck doing this, people would be sagely nodding and remarking how it was wise to cut them a year early, rather than a year late.

So you honestly want to compare track records?

 

[iceberg]

And others just want to pump sunshine, no matter what the reality of the situation is...

Say whatever you want about the situation, we went from two in-demand, productive players to two spares that nobody was chasing after.

Interpret things however you want to after the fact.

If you want to think that this is an improvement? Feel free to do so.

I'm not whining or moaning about it, despite your failed attempt to paint it that way.

I'm acknowledging the FACT that this team got WEAKER from a talent standpoint, not STRONGER.

Sorry if the reality of the situation is troubling for you.

nothing is really troubling me. well other than 1 sentence paragraphs that take up 2/3rds of my screen. the reality of the situation was we don't have the money to pay these players what they got on the open market. ware was willing to restructure, but not take a cut. that just keeps us in cap hell. hatcher didn't start a single game for 4 years and only 1 in his 5th year. he was a "spare" for the bulk of his career who had a breakout in his last year of his contract. that didn't excite me. it's also well known that ware was NOT as productive as he had been previously. since i wasn't around much of the season i'm not sure, were you one that was upset that ware was on the sidelines a lot?

if so, then i just have to wonder how you can call him productive. if not, my bad. but did we actually get weaker? dunno. this FA period isn't over yet. we've not had the draft yet. we're not in camp with a new D coordinator calling the shots yet. but if you have some need to make the call RIGHT now then sure. we got weaker. but the (2) players we signed we NOT meant to take ware and hatchers place, just come on and see if they can play. your need to call it filling their shoes is simply nothing more than your own need to do so.

next, i'm not a happy fan. i'm also not mr doom and gloom. i'm the dude in the middle that waits to see how things pan out and realizes that things are going to change. i can't stop it. i can talk about it with other fans. i do wish some fans wouldn't make every single move the end of the world as we know it, but i can't stop that either. i can stop taking the bait and getting to what i feel is "stupid" in conversation also and i'm working on that.

this ride isn't over yet. the finish line, months and months away. we'll lose some, we'll gain some, and in camp, we'll see where we are. if that's pumping sunshine to you, well, ok. but to me it's just wait and see and no need to bash every move along the way. it's just not that important to me.

 

[Stash]

nothing is really troubling me. well other than 1 sentence paragraphs that take up 2/3rds of my screen. the reality of the situation was we don't have the money to pay these players what they got on the open market. ware was willing to restructure, but not take a cut. that just keeps us in cap hell. hatcher didn't start a single game for 4 years and only 1 in his 5th year. he was a "spare" for the bulk of his career who had a breakout in his last year of his contract. that didn't excite me. it's also well known that ware was NOT as productive as he had been previously. since i wasn't around much of the season i'm not sure, were you one that was upset that ware was on the sidelines a lot?

if so, then i just have to wonder how you can call him productive. if not, my bad. but did we actually get weaker? dunno. this FA period isn't over yet. we've not had the draft yet. we're not in camp with a new D coordinator calling the shots yet. but if you have some need to make the call RIGHT now then sure. we got weaker. but the (2) players we signed we NOT meant to take ware and hatchers place, just come on and see if they can play. your need to call it filling their shoes is simply nothing more than your own need to do so.

next, i'm not a happy fan. i'm also not mr doom and gloom. i'm the dude in the middle that waits to see how things pan out and realizes that things are going to change. i can't stop it. i can talk about it with other fans. i do wish some fans wouldn't make every single move the end of the world as we know it, but i can't stop that either. i can stop taking the bait and getting to what i feel is "stupid" in conversation also and i'm working on that.

this ride isn't over yet. the finish line, months and months away. we'll lose some, we'll gain some, and in camp, we'll see where we are. if that's pumping sunshine to you, well, ok. but to me it's just wait and see and no need to bash every move along the way. it's just not that important to me.

I encourage you to realize something that I feel you're unaware of. Sure, there are extreme views all over this board - positive and negative. But neither yours nor mine is the one 'right in the middle'. Opinions are just that. No right or wrong answers on that test.

As for these recent transactions, I can only go by what has happened, not what might happen, or what I hope for. And that's what I'm commenting on. What I know as fact as of today. If things change, my perspective will as well.

But I am neither buying nor selling hope.

 

[iceberg]

I encourage you to realize something that I feel you're unaware of. Sure, there are extreme views all over this board - positive and negative. But neither yours nor mine is the one 'right in the middle'. Opinions are just that. No right or wrong answers on that test.

As for these recent transactions, I can only go by what has happened, not what might happen, or what I hope for. And that's what I'm commenting on. What I know as fact as of today. If things change, my perspective will as well.

But I am neither buying nor selling hope.

ok, then just tell me, were you one who was upset ware was on the sidelines a lot last year? i could go thread hopping but need to do some cleaning before family comes in to visit.

 

[Stash]

ok, then just tell me, were you one who was upset ware was on the sidelines a lot last year? i could go thread hopping but need to do some cleaning before family comes in to visit.

Wasn't thrilled, but no, I never went torch and pitchfork about him.

Now get to cleanin'!

 

[iceberg]

Wasn't thrilled, but no, I never went torch and pitchfork about him.

Now get to cleanin'!

so would you call him productive last year?

and ok kitchen counter top - you got some fantastic coming!!!

 

[Stash]

so would you call him productive last year?

and ok kitchen counter top - you got some fantastic coming!!!

Not one of his best years, no.

And don't get me wrong, I think that they made the right call long-term, just a tough one to have to make.

What I'm saying is that this team is now stocked with less talent at this point than last year's 8-8 squad.

And don't forget the windows!

 

[iceberg]

Not one of his best years, no.

And don't get me wrong, I think that they made the right call long-term, just a tough one to have to make.

What I'm saying is that this team is now stocked with less talent at this point than last year's 8-8 squad.

And don't forget the windows!

well on that i can totally agree. but i'm not here to judge the teams overall condition NOW, but wait and see how other things pan out. we simply don't have the room to replace ware with a ware or we'd still have a ware. as far as i'm aware... i did not just do that.

windows will have to wait. laundry went in and the toilet has a strange stain on it that needs attending...

 

[arglebargle]

So you honestly want to compare track records?

Have you seriously looked at his drafting record? Belichek is great at stockpiling picks, got to give him that. But he swings and misses just like everyone else. And technically since he has more picks, he misses more too.

Still, the point was, Jerry does something -- its terrible! Belichek does the same thing -- its genius!

If Ware ends up being injured again this year, it was definitely the right more. As it is, it's a calculated risk. The Cowboys are definitely going to have to pump up the DLine, but that was the case before the cuts. So far they've only brought in rotational backups for little risk. Late last year, with the unprecedented affects f injury, both these guys would've probably been starting instead of the real street guys they were having to use.

 

[CooterBrown]

Two reasons I think the defense will be much improved even without Ware and Hatcher: Last year was the first season in a new defense. Kiffin is not running the defense this year. I think the biggest defensive question at this point is: Can Lee stay on the field all season?