The Garrett bashing is trite, tired, and lacking in truth

[Dodger12]

Yeah, let's try to emulate the Miami Dolphins. The best organizations are those that have organizational stability.

Stability is great. I like winning. Good team's don't give coaches a pass and make excuses year after year.

 

[ufcrules1]

The Giants have a good run defense, their line has been relatively solid and reliable, they have been nearly turnover free this year; they are a good team. It's funny that you say they are well coached team, but would you have said that the past 3 seasons? I doubt this.

The Giants are a well coached team period. If JG was half the coach Coughlin was our team would have won a super bowl in recent years with all the talent it has had. The main reason the Giants are any good is because of who coaches them. They can lose a big time player like JPP and keep on chugging along with the next man up mentality. We will never have a coach like Coughlin here because Jerry won't allow a coach to have full control over his players. A coach like Coughlin needs FULL control over his team in every way to properly coach them. Heck, all coaches need that. We haven't been successful for the past 20 years for a reason.

Fielding a team made up of practice squad players and second teamers while finding a way to stay in games would say the opposite that we are a poorly coached team.

Finding a way to stay in games? You mean finding ways to lose games? Last I checked we were 0-2 in the last 2 games. One of those games was against a team that was 0-3. The other was against a team we were killing and then at halftime their coach made adjustments and ours had no idea what was coming. Are you the type of guy who gives out participation trophies? It's likely we don't win another game until all of our starters come back. No onside kicks, no hard counts to draw the other team offsides, no trickery whatsoever. Just plain vanilla offense until we lose all of the games.

 

[Rockport]

The Giants are a well coached team period. If JG was half the coach Coughlin was our team would have won a super bowl in recent years with all the talent it has had. The main reason the Giants are any good is because of who coaches them. They can lose a big time player like JPP and keep on chugging along with the next man up mentality. We will never have a coach like Coughlin here because Jerry won't allow a coach to have full control over his players. A coach like Coughlin needs FULL control over his team in every way to properly coach them. Heck, all coaches need that. We haven't been successful for the past 20 years for a reason.



Finding a way to stay in games? You mean finding ways to lose games? Last I checked we were 0-2 in the last 2 games. One of those games was against a team that was 0-3. The other was against a team we were killing and then at halftime their coach made adjustments and ours had no idea what was coming. Are you the type of guy who gives out participation trophies? It's likely we don't win another game until all of our starters come back. No onside kicks, no hard counts to draw the other team offsides, no trickery whatsoever. Just plain vanilla offense until we lose all of the games.

Interesting that you're not bashing Romo every chance you get after being proved wrong and now you've taken to bashing Garrett. Who's next after you will be proved wrong about Garrett as well?

 

[erod]

Can some of you that relentlessly defend Garret on every single issue please clarify what you think a head coach can actually be criticized for?

Yes, some people may go overboard in their rants. Yes, everyone knows there are a lot of injuries that make things difficult.

However, the situation does not completely absolve Garret of any and all criticism. There are still many things that he and his staff do control. Some people don't feel like Garret & co. have put the players that they have available in the best possible position. They see areas where they think that even with the injuries that things could be done to help the team win, and those things aren't being done. I think many of these critiques (not all) are legitimate. If you don't, that's fine, but we have reached a point where some of you are basically suggesting that coaching does not matter AT ALL. Anything and everything is 100% on the players and Garrett under no circumstances can be criticized.

Anybody can criticize Garrett all they want. But, others can criticize that criticism. Funny how critics don't like that.

The main point to my OP was that this is happening right now in 29 NFL cities, as is typical. It's what fans do.

 

[Kevinicus]

Anybody can criticize Garrett all they want. But, others can criticize that criticism. Funny how critics don't like that.

The main point to my OP was that this is happening right now in 29 NFL cities, as is typical. It's what fans do.

What is funny how nobody has answered my question still. Of course everyone can criticize and that criticism can be criticized for. But what do you think are valid things that a coach, and specifically Garrett can be criticized for? The defense seems excessive and appears to imply that there is nothing the coaches are responsible for.

 

[PAINFROMUKRAINE]

For any true NFL follower for over 20 to 30 years, it is painfully obvious that Garrett is not an Elite NFL Head Coach. In addition, no matter how much Jerry and Stephen train him, he will not be Elite. JG does not have a natural feel for the Coaching game and it is so obvious on Game Days that he is overwhelmed. He is a JAG in the Coaching Ranks. Jerry can try to put a square peg in a round hole but he will not succeed. Jerry's ego for being correct with JG is clouding his decisions. I honesty feel that Romo will never see a ring due to the fact JG is hanging around.

 

[erod]

Did you ACTUALLY Just compare Jason Garrett to Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson......talking about going over the top....lost all respect for this thread with that comment. ...... who spiked your Kool Aid

One winning season and you compare this guy to Super Bowl Champion HOF coaches......WOW

No, I didn't. READ.

It was a response to a comment about fiery coaching styles. I was comparing Garrett to more mild-mannered coaches who've had success in the NFL.

 

[CowboyGil]

Nice post erod. Sad it got turned into another Garrett bashing thread.
And yes, Brain, those evil Ginger devil eyes give me the heebee jeebees as well.

 

[khiladi]

I didn't know any of these coaches has a QB for Romo for over 8 years and has yet to find the NFC championship game because his offense was so dominant..

 

[khiladi]

Worst defense in Cowboys franchise history just two short years ago. Old, tired players when Garrett took over. No more.

After they fired Ryan, because Garrett said he needed TOs to make his offense new effective... But that excuse didn't pan out..

 

[65fastback2plus2]

After they fired Ryan, because Garrett said he needed TOs to make his offense new effective... But that excuse didn't pan out..

Wasting your time...these people were the ones making excuses for Dave Campo for years too lol

 

[khiladi]

Denver is 2nd in the league in points allowed with Wade Phillips as DC.

A defense tends to do better when their offense handles business, not when it consistently goes 3 and out during somebody's tenure as OC here while Wade was HC.

 

[khiladi]

Garrett has had Romo for the majority of his time not just as HC, but OC as well. He had total control of the offense including personnel until Jerry finally wrested it from him. In fact, the whole Callahan fiasco, where Jerry pretty much tolerated his interference in Callahan's business, while denoting him, is testament to this point.

Spare me the routine about how he's played with a bad hand, casting aside the majority of his tenure as coach and that's why he posts a bad record.

He has been given a leash the majority of coaches listed in here as examples would only dream of.

Last year, the teams success was credited by his homers as a result of him finally building the line and now this year, it's the OL fault for not doing its job as well.

 

[Garrettop]

A defense tends to do better when their offense handles business, not when it consistently goes 3 and out during somebody's tenure as OC here while Wade was HC.

It's very easy to figure out who to ignore when they say something not only factually inaccurate, but a misstatement that a quick google could have prevented.

 

[khiladi]

Garrett is who he is.. A players coach. He is going to meticulously build this team with his type of player and always support the players at every corner. You're rarely going to see him in a player's face unless that player pulls off a blatant javkhole move like finger rolling the ball into the basket with his eyes closed... & that's ok. It's ok for Garrett to be who he is. We just need to see consistent results from that style.

Players don't care who their coach is in the end of their winning. Garrett gets fired, they will still show up to work and not care a bit.

 

[khiladi]

It's very easy to figure out who to ignore when they say something not only factually inaccurate, but a misstatement that a quick google could have prevented.

It's pretty accurate.. Besides the fact Garrett's biggest flaw was in red-zone scoring which consistently got worse as he coached.

That and yards often masked his poor scheme. Teams simply defended deep and gave the underneath, knowing Dallas would make a mistake and end up in third and long or give up yardage knowing they couldn't score TDs when the field got shorter, because their schemes sucked.

 

[Idgit]

Well, this nice thread turned into a fat-farm wet tshirt contest real quick.

For my part, I like the threads where we criticize the coaches with supported arguments. That line between player execution v. player development v. coaching philosophy or scheme is interesting and ought to make for good debate. Unfortunately, those good topics tend to drown in a flurry of posts that second guess a play call for no reason other than it didn't work. Or that just reiterate things that can't be supported (he's just a JAG, he just stands around and claps, whatever). There's no point swatting down criticisms that have to evidence or arguments attached, but there are enough posters willing to believe things without reasons, it makes it hard to stay on topic too much of the time.

For the record, I agree that Jason's not great on game days and that that's something that noticeably improved when Linehan was added to the staff. I'm ok with that.

We do make some time management mistakes still, too, though every team does. Those are fair to criticize, but I also think it's fair to point out that it's the lack of time to consistently make great decisions that makes those calls difficult in the first place. And hindsight is 20/20. Generally speaking, I think we do a better job than most with the clock management stuff now. That wasn't the case when Garrett first took over.

So far this season, the overwhelming issue has been the fact that our personnel is not as good as it was before the injuries. Our backups aren't as good as other team's starters in many cases, and that's to be expected. The fact that our backups are confused in some fairly normal game situations, though, I consider to be legitimately on the coaches. I realize it's harder to prepare WIL3 than it is to prepare WIL1 or 2, but that comes with the dinner. You get 46 guys on a game day roster, and they all have to know their responsibilities. If a guy doesn't know to get down if he's hurt and can't get off the field, then somebody needs to call that timeout. That stuff goes directly to coaching and is legitimate criticism in my book.

That said, most of what you guys seem to think are coaching criticisms are just plays that don't work out. Or you're parroting back some (generally dumb) conclusions you've leapt to previously with very little evidence. That fact that people don't take that seriously on a message board is actually a good sign. We want a site where low-level discoursed is dismissed in favor of actual arguments.

 

[khiladi]

The Saints I think have the most rookies out of any team in the league and Payton has admitted its a rebuilding year.

Oh yeah, and their DC is Rob Ryan, the guy that also gave Garrett homers their excuse why Romo couldn't win, let alone Weeden.. Now suddenly, the offense putting up some points against the Saints with rookies and Rob Ryan as their coordinator is proof of his greatness..

 

[khiladi]

There were several articles last year that stated it's JG's offense with Linehan's wrinkles.

Jerry said that they went Linehan as opposed to Callahan because it was the same offense. But he said while the terminology between him and Garrett are the same, Linehan does a better job of utilizing their best talent, giving CJ as an example. He also stated that he would run the ball, while coaches that say they would but give lip service to it.

Dallas isn't making any big changes offensively.

 

[Bleu Star]

Players don't care who their coach is in the end of their winning. Garrett gets fired, they will still show up to work and not care a bit.

I wouldn't argue with that notion. Like I said, style is style. Everyone has a different one. However, bottom line, you better be stacking Ws on top of Ws regardless of style.