The Marty B trade that never happened

[Beast_from_East]

If KC had offered their first, I would have drove Bennett to the airport myself. However, it was Cinci that offered their 1st and since they won their division and probably win at least 1 playoff game at home, that pick would be at the end of the first.

So do I try a TE that I drafted in the 2nd round for a late 1st????

Hell no, that would be ********.

 

[Hoofbite]

Sure you did.

Haha.....exactly what I thought.

 

[Randy White]

If we would have taken Chris Johnson over Mendenhall and Felix, people would have **** their pants, myself included. So acting like there was any way we were going to take him is like rueing not getting Tom Brady in the 6th.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Haha.....exactly what I thought.

Id say youre complementing my pretend GM resume but I didnt exactly kill it.

I thought Felix wasnt worth a 1st due to the Hambrick back-up theory. And I didnt know Mendenhall would be such a tippy-toer

 

[AbeBeta]

I love how NE dumping Seymour is genius.

Im sure they will get a nice draft pick in 2 years. Meanwhile, theyre struggling to win a bad division and could use him.

When are people going to let go of the supposed NE dynasty?

The Seymour deal is exactly how make a good deal. Trade a guy with something left but most of his good years behind him - that has nothing to do with who made the trade. I'd say that about any team who traded a guy entering his 9th year in the league and 30th year on the earth for a #1.

The Pats could use him? Duh. Any guy you trade will have some value. You need to determine when the value to the team is less than what you get in return.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

How about him helping them win this year. Their defense is weak.

And really Marty is no better than Phillips. At this point who cares about his potential as a #2. Who is the best #2 TE in the league?(Manamanuela?) Is he worth a blue chip tackle or ball hawk FS?(Earl Thomas)

 

[AbeBeta]

How about him helping them win this year. Their defense is weak.

And really Marty is no better than Phillips. At this point who cares about his potential as a #2. Who is the best #2 TE in the league?(Manamanuela?) Is he worth a blue chip tackle or ball hawk FS?(Earl Thomas)

Again, you judge the guy's value to the team vs. what you are getting for him - the Pats' D's problems aren't about ONE player.

Your constant "but we could get Player X for that pick" analysis is just plain dumb. A good young player who we KNOW can play at this level is not worth a SHOT at a player who you don't know can play at this level.

 

[Eskimo]

Again, you judge the guy's value to the team vs. what you are getting for him - the Pats' D's problems aren't about ONE player.

Your constant "but we could get Player X for that pick" analysis is just plain dumb. A good young player who we KNOW can play at this level is not worth a SHOT at a player who you don't know can play at this level.

In this case that is true and in many cases it is true.

Suppose you have a 24 year old #3 WR in his third yea who just put up 650 yards. He is a proven player in the NFL and may even be an average #2 WR. Would you trade him for the #10 pick in the first round?

The point is that Bennett is always going to be a backup who will only play in the 2-TE and 3-TE sets or maybe 25 plays a game. He will be only a blocker on 90% of plays and will be the targeted option on 1 pass play a game. Is he worth a #1 pick who could give us a shot at acquiring a starter who will play 60 plays a game at a position we are likely very weak at?

You take the first and arrange a private jet. This was Jerry's ego getting in the way of making the trade that would help this team in the long run. The only reason Marty doesn't get traded is because he generates so much publicity for the team and Jerry doesn't want to let him go.

 

[Crad|e]

How can anyone sit here and say if the trade were on the table right now you wouldnt take it? The guy has done nothing in the nfl and we all know potential is just that potential. It'd be one thing if we didnt already have a probowl TE and Phillips is coming along nicely.. but we do.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I have no proof, but a friend of mine is an attorney for the firm that represents the Bengals. A few years back he informed me of the Corey Dillon trade a good 6 weeks before it happened. He told me it was Henry and a 4th for Bennett. Not a first. If you don't believe me, fine. No big deal. I'm just putting this out there because that's what I was told from a reliable source.

This makes alot more sense than what's been bandied about.

That said, I'm glad we kept Martellus..

 

[big dog cowboy]

This makes alot more sense than what's been bandied about.

That said, I'm glad we kept Martellus..

The way things worked out, absolutely!

 

[Cover 2]

A good GM trades players with a year or so left for high picks -- e.g. what the Pats did this year with Seymour.

A bad GM trades players with serious upside.

Bennett has serious upside. It is rare to pick a 2nd rounder who is now worth a first. You want to hold on to those guys because they are going to help your team.

So many of you hate Bennett for reasons that have nothing to do with his on-the-field performances (e.g,. his dumb rap). Seriously, it is embarrassing.

I actually agree.

When the rumor first started I was hoping we would keep Bennett, because I thought he had some serious upside. I thought he could be a big-time red zone target, and a playmaker from the tight end position.

I had some doubts with his lack of production this year, but I'm willing to be patient with him. He's shown a lot of potential, and we should learn from the Miles Austin experiment that being patient can pay off.

With Bennett's physical ability he could be the best tight end in the game. I doubt he surpasses Witten (one of the best all-time IMO), but he could be a top 3 tight end with his ability. A good tight end is underrated. Look at how many Belichick has taken.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

...and I believe that there was a "ready-now impact player" involved in the trade discussion.

My money says that player was Chad Ochocinco.

Don't bogart that joint, mah friend. Pass it ovah to me.

 

[Randy White]

The Seymour deal is exactly how make a good deal. Trade a guy with something left but most of his good years behind him - that has nothing to do with who made the trade. I'd say that about any team who traded a guy entering his 9th year in the league and 30th year on the earth for a #1.

The Pats could use him? Duh. Any guy you trade will have some value. You need to determine when the value to the team is less than what you get in return.

Exactly how do you, or anybody else, know what that future #1 pick is going to bring back ?

Everyone who thinks the deal was great is under 2 big assumptions

a) the Raiders are going to suck and that the pick is going to be a top 10 pick.

b) The player the Pats drafts with that pick will turn out to be as good as Seymore is at this stage of his career.


Those are 2 HUGE gambles because Seymore, as you point out, is only 30 years old. He's a defensive end, NOT a RB, and DE's, particularly pass rush specialists, tend to last into their late 30's, so unless he suffers a devastating injury, the Raiders will be able to count on him for at least another 5 years, if not more. That's something that #1 pick does not guarantee.

Also, the Raiders have won 5 games this year despite being horrible. They're probably going to end up with 6 victories because they should beat the Browns this week. Six victories COULD put them out of the top 10 picks in this draft depending on where Buffalo ( 5 wins ), San Francisco ( 6 wins ), Carolina ( 6 wins ), Chicago ( 5 wins ), and maybe even Washington ( 4 wins ) end up record wise .

Do you know how many games the Raiders are going to win next year ?

Now, this year is a deep draft and being out of the top 10, but still remaining within the top 15, should get them a good player, but do you know how good the 2011 draft is going to be ?

 

[AbeBeta]

Suppose you have a 24 year old #3 WR in his third yea who just put up 650 yards. He is a proven player in the NFL and may even be an average #2 WR. Would you trade him for the #10 pick in the first round?

The point is that Bennett is always going to be a backup who will only play in the 2-TE and 3-TE sets or maybe 25 plays a game. He will be only a blocker on 90% of plays and will be the targeted option on 1 pass play a game. Is he worth a #1 pick who could give us a shot at acquiring a starter who will play 60 plays a game at a position we are likely very weak at?

You take the first and arrange a private jet. This was Jerry's ego getting in the way of making the trade that would help this team in the long run. The only reason Marty doesn't get traded is because he generates so much publicity for the team and Jerry doesn't want to let him go.

Totally different situation - as you fail to factor in what we have already given up for the player. Bennett was a #2 pick, so getting a #1 for him is nice but not an amazing take. Sure, trading him gives you a shot at someone else, but having a proven player and legit depth is very important too. He is, as they say, a heartbeat away from being that 60 play a game player.

Don't think this is Jerry's ego at all. You could easily spin that as "lookie! I tuned a 2 into a 1! ... now watch me get a 2nd for Tashard Choice!"

 

[AbeBeta]

Exactly how do you, or anybody else, know what that future #1 pick is going to bring back ?

That is your argument? You know that applies equally to the Bengals supposed 1. right?

Everyone who thinks the deal was great is under 2 big assumptions

a) the Raiders are going to suck and that the pick is going to be a top 10 pick.

b) The player the Pats drafts with that pick will turn out to be as good as Seymore is at this stage of his career.

No, everyone who thinks the deal was great realize that turning a 30 year old player with a few years left as a great player and 5-7 years as an overpaid one into a first round pick is a good turn.

Those are 2 HUGE gambles because Seymore, as you point out, is only 30 years old. He's a defensive end, NOT a RB, and DE's, particularly pass rush specialists, tend to last into their late 30's, so unless he suffers a devastating injury, the Raiders will be able to count on him for at least another 5 years, if not more. That's something that #1 pick does not guarantee.

5 years? Right. Reports differ but Seymour is either an FA at the end of this season or the end of the next. He'll be up for another big deal and one that he won't see the end of.

Also, the Raiders have won 5 games this year despite being horrible. They're probably going to end up with 6 victories because they should beat the Browns this week. Six victories COULD put them out of the top 10 picks in this draft depending on where Buffalo ( 5 wins ), San Francisco ( 6 wins ), Carolina ( 6 wins ), Chicago ( 5 wins ), and maybe even Washington ( 4 wins ) end up record wise .

Do you know how many games the Raiders are going to win next year ?

Now, this year is a deep draft and being out of the top 10, but still remaining within the top 15, should get them a good player, but do you know how good the 2011 draft is going to be ?

Who cares how many wins the RAiders have? They are a poorly run franchise that is an excellent bet to bring a relatively high pick.

 

[Hostile]

I have no proof, but a friend of mine is an attorney for the firm that represents the Bengals. A few years back he informed me of the Corey Dillon trade a good 6 weeks before it happened. He told me it was Henry and a 4th for Bennett. Not a first. If you don't believe me, fine. No big deal. I'm just putting this out there because that's what I was told from a reliable source.

I do believe you, because I have heard the same thing from a source I do respect, but rarely use.

 

[bbgun]

I have no proof, but a friend of mine is an attorney for the firm that represents the Bengals. A few years back he informed me of the Corey Dillon trade a good 6 weeks before it happened. He told me it was Henry and a 4th for Bennett. Not a first. If you don't believe me, fine. No big deal. I'm just putting this out there because that's what I was told from a reliable source.

Only in Jerry's mind could that be considered a "significant offer." God bless him.

 

[the truth of it all]

looking at it now, and going forward unless Witt totally drops off in the coming couple of years.. We shouldve done it . Esp if we arent going to give him regular targets its just wasted and him and his agent are going to demand a nice contract when his current one is up based off potential. Phillips or Other guy we had would suffice if thats how we are going to use him. Who knows maybe he will have a strong showing to end the season and to start the next. i hope so atleast. :starspin

 

[Don Corleone]

Only in Jerry's mind could that be considered a "significant offer." God bless him.

Well, he didn't pull the trigger, and I though he put a counter offer on the table that the Bengals scoffed at.