The Myles Jack Myth

[darthseinfeld]

I actually think it is a sign of intelligence and ability to learn. Certainly fore shadowed Claiborne.

Didn't Mo bomb it on purpose?

 

[visionary]

Arguments are either valid or invalid by nature, there is nothing wrong with this critical approach.

Further, propositions are either true or false this is basic logic and argumentation.

You can even have a valid argument with a false proposition.

He looked fine at MLB in my view and many agree since they have no problem projecting him to MLB in the NFL if a team wants to play him there accordingly, he has flex so it really does not matter.

There is really nothing left to exchange about this that will be productive, I think we have both expressed our disagreements and neither of us will budge, it is thus not fruitful.

Size absolutely matters

He may have played MLB for a game here or there but that is very different than playing MLB game in and game out for 16 games year after year at a position that requires contact and tackling fast moving big guys more than most

The players he was 'taking on' did not have the size or speed he will face every single day in the NFL

IMO he is a player without a set position, being projected because of his athleticism

I'm not a fan of using the 4th overall pick to do that

 

[mattjames2010]

Remember who else people lost their minds over?

LaVar Arrington.

I am seeing the same "beast" and "freak" talk.

At the end of the day, the athleticism matters less and less if he does not have it upstairs.

Lavar Arrington had athleticism and instinct, sadly he couldn't stay healthy and it ended his career early.

If we are talking talent alone, being compared to Arrington is not a problem.

 

[jterrell]

The weirdest thing is discussing a player and seeing other people disagree with you then make the exact points you make but use them differently....

I say: Jack was listed at 225 and looks about 230, tall and skjinny in much of his tape... so I wanna see him hit the scale at the combine. OTHERS... NO! NO! NO! he is 245!
Guy on tape says he is about 6 foot and 230... OTHERS...Wait it doesn't matter because 230 is fine for MLB....

I say Jack is ALL over the field and uniquely able to cover guys. But doesn't make many plays inside. OTHERS: NO WAY MAN!!
Guy on tape.. much of his tape is unusable for LB critiques because when they play a spread team he plays nicker corner and just man covers all game. OTHERS: UMM, that's a good thing!!!

I say he isn't instinctive or studied but is clearly the best athlete on the field. OTHERS: No way man he makes all the plays, man, all of em.
Guy on tape (who lives in los angeles with UCLA) says he isn't a film room guy and doesn't have great instincts but outclasses mortals with athleticism. OTHERS: YEA!!!

It really is just surreal.

That tape is available on draftbreakdown.com. Hopefully everyone posting about Jack has seen all the tape there.
But this tape is very much like the rest. Jack is sideline to sideline though almost never starting at MLB. Heplays Will and Sam mostly. Some 4-2-5 LB where he is a ILB and other times he is a DB.
He occasionally gets caught up on a block.

His biggest two plays were 1. on a run blitz where he made a nice backside tackle for a loss. 2 on a screen where he ate up the RB but facemaked him badly drawing 15 to do so.

What you do see:
1. A guy that can cover. He's long and lean and could play strong safety IMHO. He has no issues with college players in coverage regardless of position. He's a nickel backer galore day 1. 3rd down and long is his baby.
2. A guy who has unlimited range. He will give some ground but he gets across the field without issue. Guys are not blocking him in space.
3. Has longish arms and at times can keep OL knocked off.
4. Almost never see run plays get deeper than him.

What you don't see:
1. No forced fumbles on that tape. No big, clean hits. He plays more a wall them off game. Doesn't try to strip the ball or create turnovers, just gets guys to the ground.
2. Pass rush acumen. He flashes plenty of speed but his pass rush is slower then DL beside him even when he isn't blocked. Almost like he is setting an edge even though it is a passing play.
3. Pre-snap anything. He isn't moving to the play before it happens basically ever. Saw one run blitz that was timed well and showed awareness but there was very little of that in all his tapes.
4. A guy making the plays you feel he could. He's near ALL the plays. He has speed to burn but the final result of the plays are often just him in that area. He averaged about 6 to 6.5 tackles a game for his career and for each season. That Virgina tape was his 2015 high... he had 4 solo tackles and 3 assists for 7 total. That was a 4 win Virginia team and you feel like they could have used Jack at like 6 positions but at the same time he didn't come close to dominating.
((In case you are wondering Jaylon Smith played Virginia the next week and had 6 solo tackles and 11 total.))

 

[jterrell]

My final thoughts on Jack hopefully until the draft or ever are this:

I think he is an elite prospect. For Dallas he is to me a 4-3 SAM and Nickel LB. He'd man cover TE on passing downs early but could be taught zones with his speed and length a positive.
I don't see him as a Mike. Robs him of what he does best and asks him to focus on what he'd done least.
As a 4-3 OLB he could be Derrick Brooks... i.e. Hall of Fame Derrick Brooks. He has that ceiling.
One of the more raw prospects I've seen but does also remind you a bit of Byron Jones. More athlete then anything and a guy with positonal flex though he likely fits best at SAM for 4-3 clubs.
Scouts love guys like him because he just looks like an athlete. He can tear up every drill or test you give him physically. He won the genetic lottery.
The NFL is mostly dominated by those elite guys.

I think he goes higher and rates higher than he would normally.
This is a rather soft draft at the top and arguably the best LB was seriously injured.
I think this is player you'd normally see go between 10-15.
In THIS draft I think his value is probably in the 6-8 area but it does depend on how you grade the QBs. I have 2 above him. If I am incorrect there he'd be 4-6 and right in our wheelhouse.

If the Boys draft him I'll immediately buy in and homer out hoping he hits his insane ceiling.
The raw talent is there for him to be very special.

If the Boys pass on him or he goes even earlier I'll say he was too raw and small and not a student of the game.

 

[RS12]

This is a rather soft draft at the top and arguably the best LB was seriously injured.

This. It is hard to find 5 players worthy of a top 5 pick. That will lead to the usual reaches, and QBs getting over drafted.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Lavar Arrington had athleticism and instinct, sadly he couldn't stay healthy and it ended his career early.

If we are talking talent alone, being compared to Arrington is not a problem.

He also had no discipline on the field. They had serious issues with him freelancing

 

[jterrell]

Didn't Mo bomb it on purpose?

Yes. He knew he wasn't goign to score well so he didn't bother trying.

Not sure why anything thinks the wonderlic has anything to do with Mo's issues which are being topped out at about 190 pounds and getting injured fairly often.
It isn't like Mo has no idea what cover 1, 3 or 0 is. He just struggles to tackle backs without dislocating a shoulder or handling 6'2" 225 WRs.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yes. He knew he wasn't goign to score well so he didn't bother trying.

Not sure why anything thinks the wonderlic has anything to do with Mo's issues which are being topped out at about 190 pounds and getting injured fairly often.
It isn't like Mo has no idea what cover 1, 3 or 0 is. He just struggles to tackle backs without dislocating a shoulder or handling 6'2" 225 WRs.

I think thats his second biggest issue . I think his biggest issue os that his mentality is very frail. He lacks confidence. He doesnt have a short memory like a good CB needs to have. He gets called for holding or DPI and his game is all downhill. That wonderlic could have been very telling

 

[jterrell]

I think thats his second biggest issue . I think his biggest issue os that his mentality is very frail. He lacks confidence. He doesnt have a short memory like a good CB needs to have. He gets called for holding or DPI and his game is all downhill. That wonderlic could have been very telling

Not sure I buy that argument.
Dez Bryant also bombed the Wonderlic and he did have issues learning the playbook but he certainly never lacked confidence.

The wonderlic is an IQ test that largely tells you how much time you've spent reading. Guys who've read a lot score well on it.
Kids who struggled with dyslexia like Mo were never going to do well on it but many of those same guys succeed at skilled jobs.
Watching film and studying tendecies is a far cry from solving mathematical word problems or answering reading comp questions.
The guys who build the ohuses we live in may not be very good at the Wonderlic but few of us could replicate the work they do.

If a guy can retain football info and has a football IQ that should be more than sufficient.
The kind of guys who ace the Wonderlic would also perform on the chalkboard discussing plays.

Mo is a very young player. It takes time for these guys to elevate to the top of the best league in the world.
Almost all young CB struggle with move from college to pro.
What Mo was called for as PI in the NFL he was NEVER called for in the SEC.

Dez took a while to excel.
Mo will likely be a really good player if he can stay healthy.
If I were Dallas I'd be trying to get him locked into a team friendly health-protected deal. CB are expensive and hard to come by.
Worst case Mo is a solid CB2. His play early this year versus top notch WR was very good. Then he got injured... AGAIN.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Not sure I buy that argument.
Dez Bryant also bombed the Wonderlic and he did have issues learning the playbook but he certainly never lacked confidence.

The wonderlic is an IQ test that largely tells you how much time you've spent reading. Guys who've read a lot score well on it.
Kids who struggled with dyslexia like Mo were never going to do well on it but many of those same guys succeed at skilled jobs.
Watching film and studying tendecies is a far cry from solving mathematical word problems or answering reading comp questions.
The guys who build the ohuses we live in may not be very good at the Wonderlic but few of us could replicate the work they do.

If a guy can retain football info and has a football IQ that should be more than sufficient.
The kind of guys who ace the Wonderlic would also perform on the chalkboard discussing plays.

Mo is a very young player. It takes time for these guys to elevate to the top of the best league in the world.
Almost all young CB struggle with move from college to pro.
What Mo was called for as PI in the NFL he was NEVER called for in the SEC.

Dez took a while to excel.
Mo will likely be a really good player if he can stay healthy.
If I were Dallas I'd be trying to get him locked into a team friendly health-protected deal. CB are expensive and hard to come by.
Worst case Mo is a solid CB2. His play early this year versus top notch WR was very good. Then he got injured... AGAIN.

I wasnt saying him failing was a sign he had confidence issues. Im saying the fact he deliberately failed may have been a sign he has confidential. Maybe he knew he was going to fail and wanted an excuse

 

[jterrell]

I wasnt saying him failing was a sign he had confidence issues. Im saying the fact he deliberately failed may have been a sign he has confidential. Maybe he knew he was going to fail and wanted an excuse

I hear ya but I am saying confidence in test taking seldom is tied to confidence in your athletic abilities.
Probably 20-25% of college football players don't take their own tests regularly.
Most jocks aren't even offended by dumb jock stereotypes.
They'd just as soon allow it be known they can crush egghead nerds.. even if those jocks are pretty sharp.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I hear ya but I am saying confidence in test taking seldom is tied to confidence in your athletic abilities.
Probably 20-25% of college football players don't take their own tests regularly.
Most jocks aren't even offended by dumb jock stereotypes.
They'd just as soon allow it be known they can crush egghead nerds.. even if those jocks are pretty sharp.

Thats the thing with Mo. He can be very weak minded on the field. He has tendency to go into a tailspin when he makes bad plays and especially if he has a bad game. It got better this year, but I still dont trust him mentally to have that short term memory a CB needs. I think thats holding him back as much if not more then his injury issues. But Im sure the injuries compound that. I think Mo is a good CB in a strong corps of CB's. If you have 2 other strong CB' s and dont have to depend on him covering the Julio Jones and DeAndre Hopkins of the NFL game in and game out he can be a real asset. If he I see him as a guy that will hold his own until he gets a crucial PI and goes into a funk and gets abused by guys like Steadman Bailey

 

[Rogerthat12]

Size absolutely matters

He may have played MLB for a game here or there but that is very different than playing MLB game in and game out for 16 games year after year at a position that requires contact and tackling fast moving big guys more than most

The players he was 'taking on' did not have the size or speed he will face every single day in the NFL

IMO he is a player without a set position, being projected because of his athleticism

I'm not a fan of using the 4th overall pick to do that

The problem with your argument is that the top MLB's currently in the NFL are from 230 to 255 range, with many of the top 5 playing at 240-248.

Myles Jack is currently 245!

I can provide a list if you would like since some are ignorant of this fact apparently.

 

[visionary]

The problem with your argument is that the top MLB's currently in the NFL are from 230 to 255 range, with many of the top 5 playing at 240-248.

Myles Jack is currently 245!

I can provide a list if you would like since some are ignorant of this fact apparently.

There are guys who can do it and stay healthy and there are those who cannot

Jack had not played the position consistently, so you are projecting him, and was already injured

I'm not investing the 4th overall pick in that

 

[Rogerthat12]

There are guys who can do it and stay healthy and there are those who cannot

Jack had not played the position consistently, so you are projecting him, and was already injured

I'm not investing the 4th overall pick in that

Actually most guys who are doing it are in Jack's range, sorry your argument has been frustrated.

Further, a meniscus tear could happen to any player and at any position.

 

[Iago33]

The problem with your argument is that the top MLB's currently in the NFL are from 230 to 255 range, with many of the top 5 playing at 240-248.

Myles Jack is currently 245!

I can provide a list if you would like since some are ignorant of this fact apparently.

Where are you getting 245? On film he doesn't play that big, but then again he didn't play much this year.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Where are you getting 245? On film he doesn't play that big, but then again he didn't play much this year.

Jack is 245 right now, as per scouts and every other outlet including his current UCLA profile, Jack said himself when he first came to college he was light around 220-230 but his heaviest while playing with the Bruins was 250- 255.

He is already training hard with no knee issues for the combine.

https://twitter.com/mylesjack

Regardless of weight, any team that drafts him could play him anywhere as he can play all three positions, the weight issue was just an invalid criticism considering he is currently the same weight as most of the starting middle linebackers in the NFL.

This does not mean he has to play mlb or should for that matter, just that he can play the position and has done so even in college.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I watched the tape and I just don't see a top 5 pick...........he is good, don't get me wrong, but I just don't see this unstoppable LB blowing up everybody.

To take a 43 backer in the top 5, he better look like Brian freaking Urlacher on the tape............and he doesn't.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I actually think it is a sign of intelligence and ability to learn. Certainly fore shadowed Claiborne.

Other than the fact he tanked it on purpose........