The myth of Dak compared to reality

[CowboyRoy]

Read (if you are able to read) my post properly.

I stated that the roster in 2016 was "absolutely loaded with talent on offense coupled with a decent enough defense in 2016 (top 15)".

I didn't state that the roster was not loaded in 2017 and 2018. I stated that the defense was top 10 in 2017 and top 5 in 2018, i.e. even MORE loaded. The O-Line was never going to match the crazy high standards of 2016 - the likes of which I haven't seen since from any team, yet it was still so much better thereafter than what people claim. I have never seen a rookie QB fall into an offense with all the qualities the Cowboys had in 2016. In my opinion every starting QB and most back up QB's would have made the pro bowl in 2016 with the Cowboys offense and a lot would have been rookie of the year but my assertions are as pointless as yours because we will never know. Although in reality, anyone who understands football is fully aware that Zeke Elliott was the real rookie of the year in 2016.

The main point being that in 2016 the team would have made the play offs regardless of who was playing QB. Did you watch the O-line? Did you watch Zeke Elliott? Did you watch how when Dez Bryant actually received a decent enough jump ball that he made big plays including in the play off game against the Packers when he was utilised far too late? Jason Witten has never relied on his pace yet yep he will most likely end up in the Hall of Fame.

Would his players fell so in love him as a rookie that he Romo would have sat on the bench when he was healthy? How do you know that - were you part of the roster or coaching staff? Or are they just more assertions on your part? Romo sat on the bench with the best offensive tools he ever had only to watch a rookie QB butcher the last drive of the game by spiking the ball providing the slightest chance for the Packers to win it in regulation. Had it gone to overtime and the Cowboys got the ball first, then most people will have fancied us against a Secondary with guys literally off the street and one that allowed 44 points the following week. Yep 44. That would have got it done when the Cowboys played them. Shame.

The rosters we have had the past three years were far superior to anything that we had the five years prior to that.

Please do not embarrass yourself further by stating that Prescott is a two time Pro-Bowl QB. He was behind Mitchell Tribisky in line for the Pro Bowl last season. Please. It's like being a milk monitor at school. The sort of title that only kids with less talent take seriously. Harsh but true.

LOL.......So who do you think the following resume is embarrassing to, your position or mine?

-Rookie of the year, 2 pro bowls, 3 winning season/no losing seasons, two playoff appearances, one playoff victory all in his first 3 seasons?

Bottom line is you trolls have taken it right across the chin. You have been proven dead wrong and now Dak will get a shiny new long term contract.

All your left to babble about is a few errant passes.

Time to fess up or root for another team while the rest of us enjoy it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Interesting thread but those that do not like or want Dak, it will never matter what is said or what facts they are shown. If Dallas happens to win a Super Bowl this year and/or next year, they still will hate and want to get rid of Dak. There always people who believe the pasture is greener on the other side, who believe you can trade for whoever you want, pay whatever you as a fan think a person is worth, and yet still have no concept from a team view or front office view.

Frankly I can't wait until Dallas extends Dak sometime before the season starts then we will have 100s of threads of why it is wrong. It is what it is and there is no changing some minds.

All will complete the failure of the trolls and vindication for those of us that saw how good Dak was from the beginning.

 

[kskboys]

Read (if you are able to read) my post properly.

I stated that the roster in 2016 was "absolutely loaded with talent on offense coupled with a decent enough defense in 2016 (top 15)".

I didn't state that the roster was not loaded in 2017 and 2018. I stated that the defense was top 10 in 2017 and top 5 in 2018, i.e. even MORE loaded. The O-Line was never going to match the crazy high standards of 2016 - the likes of which I haven't seen since from any team, yet it was still so much better thereafter than what people claim. I have never seen a rookie QB fall into an offense with all the qualities the Cowboys had in 2016. In my opinion every starting QB and most back up QB's would have made the pro bowl in 2016 with the Cowboys offense and a lot would have been rookie of the year but my assertions are as pointless as yours because we will never know. Although in reality, anyone who understands football is fully aware that Zeke Elliott was the real rookie of the year in 2016.

The main point being that in 2016 the team would have made the play offs regardless of who was playing QB. Did you watch the O-line? Did you watch Zeke Elliott? Did you watch how when Dez Bryant actually received a decent enough jump ball that he made big plays including in the play off game against the Packers when he was utilised far too late? Jason Witten has never relied on his pace yet yep he will most likely end up in the Hall of Fame.

Would his players fell so in love him as a rookie that he Romo would have sat on the bench when he was healthy? How do you know that - were you part of the roster or coaching staff? Or are they just more assertions on your part? Romo sat on the bench with the best offensive tools he ever had only to watch a rookie QB butcher the last drive of the game by spiking the ball providing the slightest chance for the Packers to win it in regulation. Had it gone to overtime and the Cowboys got the ball first, then most people will have fancied us against a Secondary with guys literally off the street and one that allowed 44 points the following week. Yep 44. That would have got it done when the Cowboys played them. Shame.

The rosters we have had the past three years were far superior to anything that we had the five years prior to that.

Please do not embarrass yourself further by stating that Prescott is a two time Pro-Bowl QB. He was behind Mitchell Tribisky in line for the Pro Bowl last season. Please. It's like being a milk monitor at school. The sort of title that only kids with less talent take seriously. Harsh but true.

Even if I like milk?

 

[glimmerman]

the FO will do a lot of things. that's not the point of debate.... we drafted taco Charlton and he maybe cut this summer....that's not the point. the OP and yourself vehemently defend Dak, based on some stats...

in the middle of the debate...you come up with...FO will pay this guy and if you don't like it don't watch, or go away or root for somebody else or whatever else you said..... I am a cowboy fan...I can criticize the players as a fan. I can criticize the FO as a fan. I can root for a player if I want. or not root for a player...that's what we do as fans... Dak getting paid or not has nothing to do with argument. that would be like me saying I like Crawford and he got over paid, so get over it , or go root for somebody else.......

If what I said offended you then I apologize, was not my intent and wasn’t directed towards you. What I was trying to say is that some hate him so bad that it don’t matter what he does they are still going to hate him and say that it’s the other players elevating him and the staff protecting his weaknesses. Which is part of what a team does. You can’t depend on a QB to take a team on his shoulders and carry them every week. So if he makes that person so miserable (it’s there right) then watch a different game. Lol. The FO believes in him so he is getting a contract. We just have to buckle up and take the ride.

There is also people that love him so much that they aren’t going to see his mistakes and weaknesses. They will blame it on other players and staff. Defend him to the end.

I am kind of in the middle. He has to get better IMO on some things. I will and do give him credit. That 2016 season was amazing for rookie QB. He had a lot of help with the staff and players. That O-Line was set up to protect a QB like Romo that had to have max protection to stay on his feet all year. I can only imagine if Romo stayed healthy that year. May have been our year.

I knew 2017 wasn’t going to be like 2016. Not with film opposing teams had to watch on Dak and the way they called the plays to help him. A lot was going on that year. Last year was descent enough. Needed to come out stronger.

But his play has been consistent and we are all getting to see more of him and his talents and weaknesses. Should be a interesting year this year.

Anyways, it’s your right to criticize anything you want. We are all fans of The Dallas Cowboys, we all want the same thing (SB) we just have different ideas and opinions on how to get there.

 

[G2]

The key word being "should".

"Should" is different than "can".

For that reason, it makes more sense to not give him a big contract now and see what he can do in 2019 and then pay him if he proves his value.

Not if the QB market value goes higher. There are QBs who have older contracts coming up.

 

[glimmerman]

Not if the QB market value goes higher. There are QBs who have older contracts coming up.

I think Wilson’s contract is coming up and looks to be getting ugly already. Someone said he want to go to the giants.

Some compare Wilson’s and Daks styles as similar. If we wait and Wilson gets 30+ a year and Dak has a really good year then his agent if gonna go nuts.

With the position value going up every year I almost wonder if Dak and his agent are wanting to wait for a contract.

 

[G2]

I think Wilson’s contract is coming up and looks to be getting ugly already. Someone said he want to go to the giants.

Some compare Wilson’s and Daks styles as similar. If we wait and Wilson gets 30+ a year and Dak has a really good year then his agent if gonna go nuts.

With the position value going up every year I almost wonder if Dak and his agent are wanting to wait for a contract.

Just my opinion, but if I'm a player or agent I want to get a long term deal done ASAP because anything could happen.

 

[DFWJC]

Why are you posting about rookie years? So what?

That crossed my mind too.

He's going on his 4th year. 2018 most relevant, 2017 next, 2016 next...yet he used the least relevant.

I also noticed offensive lines and defense weren't mentioned...just the superficial shiny objects of "skill" positions on offense.

Nevertheless....Beside that point, Dak IS getting signed

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It all comes down to coaching or lack of. Good coaches put players in a position to win with their strengths...

and if a player doesn't have certain abilities? is that the coaches? or Player? like pocket presence or reading a defense or accuracy issues? you can over come only so much with coaching....you can't put parsley next to a pile of craap and call it filet mignon......at some point you need at least some meat to fake it.

 

[Swagger]

Even if I like milk?

Well if you were first in line then it does have more credibility.

If you were like 4th or 5th choice after Mitchell Trubisky then I do not respect it in any way.

 

[glimmerman]

LOL.......So who do you think the following resume is embarrassing to, your position or mine?

-Rookie of the year, 2 pro bowls, 3 winning season/no losing seasons, two playoff appearances, one playoff victory all in his first 3 seasons?

Bottom line is you trolls have taken it right across the chin. You have been proven dead wrong and now Dak will get a shiny new long term contract.

All your left to babble about is a few errant passes.

Time to fess up or root for another team while the rest of us enjoy it.

I don’t think Dak has hit his ceiling yet. A few areas he needs to get better at. But with another year his reads are going to get better and the game is going to slow down for him. I am pumped to see what happens. The FO believes in him and he IS getting a contract and will be our starting franchise QB for years to come. Some are hating and it’s not going to change. Was the same with Romo.

It’s when people over board one way or the other that’s frustrating. They get blind to facts. Either hating so bad they will never give him credit for anything. Or love him so much that they don’t see the faults.

It’s a team game and our FO needs to surround him with players to maximize his potential.. Players need to make plays and help elevate him. And he needs to make decisions and plays that elevate the team. I have seen him take the team on his shoulders and drive down the field and make the plays when it’s on the line. That gives me confidence that he can be the man.

 

[glimmerman]

Just my opinion, but if I'm a player or agent I want to get a long term deal done ASAP because anything could happen.

At QB position you are correct. One nasty hit or someone falls on you or hits you low and it’s trouble. Romo, 2 broken collarbones from falling on him. Even brady with the low hit and his knee.

And he runs a lot. It may be a 5 million dollar per year swing from signing this year and next. But when your talking 100 million then what’s 5 million here and there. Lol.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Actually no it isn't exhibiting a bias. Instead of a bias eye, he's having the numbers do the talking.
.

Here is the definition of the word Bias:

Prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

This is exactly what is going on here. It's just as bad or prejudice as saying the numbers don't count when you make an evaluation of Dak's play. Just stop already.

And by the way, what kind of honest evaluation looks at just his rookie year, rather then his play for all three years to try and justify his performance.

Just stop.

 

[CowboyFanInLexKy]

Just a question and maybe a show of hands. Has anyone changed their position on Dak Prescott with all of these threads about him? Anyone?

And it is not accurate to say he is an inaccurate passer. He is an inconsistent passer and misses some QB 101 passes, that does not show up in any stats, just the eye test. And they all miss passes but some of the ones he misses are the same type ones he missed in college. And maybe he will get better, I just haven't seen that yet.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I've got one statement and one question for you. Question - So you think you me and everyone else here are as qualified to judge talent with the "eye" test like professional scouts and coaches? Statement - Take the draft, a player may as you put it catch the eye of a scout or coach and the very first thing they do is get some stats to see what the big picture looks like. THEN, if they like the numbers they see they ask for some game footage of the player from the college and send a scout to watch this player. But if the numbers don't bare out what they may have seen from a couple of plays then they will move on and write it off as just having the game or quarter of his life because the numbers don't support what caught their eyes.
.

I can't speak for you or anybody else and I don't try to. However, this entire thread is based on a dishonest evaluation. Even if you just say you are basing it on numbers, which we all know is not honest at all, the numbers are flawed because they only look at the first season, to try and prove a point.

Your analogy of looking at the numbers and allowing them to dictate what happens next is flat wrong. That's not how it works. That's why you have professional scouts and coaches. Tony Romo is a perfect example of this. Romo was a Pro specifically because somebody watched him play and not because somebody looked at the stats. Truth be told, somebody did look at the stats and guess what, he never got invited to the combine. He probably never would have even got a shot at the Pros if somebody hadn't watched him play. Because somebody watched him play, he got a chance to come to the combine as a practice QB and not a prospect. From that, he landed a shot and guess what, it wasn't the stats. Funny thing is, he had everything wrong with his mechanics but he had a lot right in other areas and that would never have been known if somebody had just looked at the stats and not watched him play, not spoken with him directly.

We, as Cowboy Fans, should know and understand this. I can't even believe that anybody would try and use this idea that stats tell the entire story. That's just crazy.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah I’m not defending his position. As fans most of us only have the eye test to evaluate players. Some people don’t watch games at all, they just look at stat lines. You gotta have both to make a better assessment. And then others take it a step further and they get the All-22..

It just seems pointless to present an argument with limited information and obviously I misunderstood your original premise which is why I asked for clarification.

I do recall a time when stats were used to defend a previous qb’s bad play but I don’t want to get off subject here.

Don't get me wrong, stats matter and even more important in such evaluations are tendencies they shed light on. I don't discount those at all and think that they have a place in the game for sure. I just don't think that it serves the discussion when you suggest that stats prove that what you see is irrelevant. That's just as bad as suggesting that stats don't matter, to me.

Both of those statements are deeply flawed IMO.

 

[Swagger]

LOL.......So who do you think the following resume is embarrassing to, your position or mine?

-Rookie of the year, 2 pro bowls, 3 winning season/no losing seasons, two playoff appearances, one playoff victory all in his first 3 seasons?

Bottom line is you trolls have taken it right across the chin. You have been proven dead wrong and now Dak will get a shiny new long term contract.

All your left to babble about is a few errant passes.

Time to fess up or root for another team while the rest of us enjoy it.

You didn't address any of my points.

You previously stated that the lead horse (Elliott) missed six games in 2017 - how many yards did Alfred Morris average? Only 4.8 yards and 547 in total. That's terrible, only averaging nearly 5 yards a carry. Shocking. Ah yes they must have all been garbage yards so they don't count.

I concede that this is a pointless argument as we will not change our mind.

Heading into next season, we have what should be a Top 5 defense again. So I would be very surprised and shocked if we didn't have another winning season as the starting QB just needs to drive the bus to achieve that, a top ten QB could have very well led us to a Superbowl. If our defense is top three then we still have a shot of doing well in the play offs. Once the O-Line properly breaks up in a few years then that will be that as Prescott will turn into Tim Tebow (again).

 

[Floatyworm]

Feels false pressure....ducks out of the pocket unnecessarily...all the time. Yet some will be amazed w/ this throw. Doesn't see the field...guys will be wide open...just like in this play. Cooper is open underneath...Dak just didn't see him. Dak is his own worst enemy. It's as if he doesn't know what to do w/ the football...and just makes things up on the fly.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

All QB's are reliant on those around them. Young QB's more so. QB 101. This isnt complicated stuff.

Dak does not elevate his teammates. He needs to be elevated by them. What about this makes you comfortable to give him 200MM?

 

[HungryLion]

Feels false pressure....ducks out of the pocket unnecessarily...all the time. Yet some will be amazed w/ this throw. Doesn't see the field...guys will be wide open...just like in this play. Cooper is open underneath...Dak just didn't see him. Dak is his own worst enemy. It's as if he doesn't know what to do w/ the football...and just makes things up on the fly.

Lol posting a video of a huge pass gain. Hilarious.