The NFL is losing itself

Trouty

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The vast majority do not. Especially if they have a rooting interest in the game.

The 70s were awesome because it was very plainly and clearly obvious the Cowboys and Commanders players deeply and personally hated each other. Many still won't talk to each other at all.

Right, but that was a different, hard nosed era. This era is soft, and so are the fans. And a lot enjoy seeing the opposition fraternizing during games. It's confounding, I agree. But it is what is. I have my thumb on the league (and its fandom), somewhat, and I'm constantly amazed at the platitudes thrown at such actions.

Some of the older fanbases adhere to the line that you are suggesting, but even they are getting soft as the younger, vocal fans begin to become the majority in this soft, progressive time.
 

jazzcat22

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I used to be a Reds fan as a kid because of Pete Rose and living nowhere near an MLB team. Huge fan of the Big Red Machine...Concepcion, Foster, Griffey, Morgan, Perez, Bench, Geronimo.... What a team.

Gave them up during the Gary Redus days for the Cubs because they were on TV all the time. Picked up on the Rangers in the late 80s when I moved here, and stayed with them since.

Used to go to about 20 games a year watching The Big Red Machine.
One of the things I was able to see was Pete's 3,000th career hit.

I can still remember Pete rose used to come to the kids in right field at old Crosley Stadium, before Riverfront, which now in itself tore down. But parents would try to talk to Pete, and he said, sorry, I'm here for the kids. I as like 7 years old at the time.
 

Trouty

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I used to be a Reds fan as a kid because of Pete Rose and living nowhere near an MLB team. Huge fan of the Big Red Machine...Concepcion, Foster, Griffey, Morgan, Perez, Bench, Geronimo.... What a team.

Gave them up during the Gary Redus days for the Cubs because they were on TV all the time. Picked up on the Rangers in the late 80s when I moved here, and stayed with them since.

Do you want Rose in the Hall? (sorry for derailing your OP, erod, just asking since you brought up the Big Red Machine.) :)
 

haleyrules

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Another thing I had to do was to drive by old Jerry Park. though torn down, but the actual park was still there. Where the Montreal Expos used to play. Now the Washington Nationals for those youngsters that didn't know Montreal had a baseball team. :laugh:.

Used to drive by there, going to Champs Sports Bar to watch Cowboys games when they weren't on regular TV.
Montreal has always been a great baseball town. The expos didn't do well there professionally but the game of baseball is loved in the city. Heck, as a kid l practically grew up in the old forum. What a place to watch a hockey game and those old Montreal teams were outstanding in all respects. I used to go to the Montreal games and have a 3 dollar standing room ticket that was very close to the ice. Top of the reds. It was ice level up Red, White and Blue. Anyway, the last time it still only costs 10 bucks for a standing room ticket. God only knows what it costs today!!
 

Trouty

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Do you think ole Pete should be in? Personally, if I had a vote...it would be yes. He was a heck of a baseball player. He was also a bit of a prick.

Abso-freaking-lutely, Haley.

Hard nosed, blood, sweat, and dirt player who beat Ty Cobb's all time hits record. A sure fire record that will never be touched. Betting on baseball (when he was a manager, not a player) did nothing to get him those hits.

He never bet on his team to lose, and Giamatti had a vendetta against him and wanted to make a name for himself. The league already allows him to participate in MLB functions now, Manfred needs to do what's right,
 

erod

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Do you want Rose in the Hall? (sorry for derailing your OP, erod, just asking since you brought up the Big Red Machine.) :)
No. Messed with the fabric of the game. Letting him in would tempt others to do the same.

There are ways to acknowledge him without inducting him.
 

erod

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Right, but that was a different, hard nosed era. This era is soft, and so are the fans. And a lot enjoy seeing the opposition fraternizing during games. It's confounding, I agree. But it is what is. I have my thumb on the league (and its fandom), somewhat, and I'm constantly amazed at the platitudes thrown at such actions.

Some of the older fanbases adhere to the line that you are suggesting, but even they are getting soft as the younger, vocal fans begin to become the majority in this soft, progressive time.

In 20 years, they might not even keep score in the NFL. Lol
 

Nightman

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I'm not a Mark Cuban fan, but he had it right when he attached the old stock-market mantra to the NFL, "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered." Cuban claims the oversaturation of the NFL is going to hurt it eventually. Perhaps, but I think there's far more to it than that.

It's still the beast of pro sports, but ratings are slipping and complaints are mounting.

The NFL is not great because it's football. There are lots of other varieties of football to watch -- various levels of college, CFL, Arena, etc -- and by and large, games become more than just a bit repetitive, respectively. Generally, we see the same general play, the same cadence, and the same basic set of results play out each weekend here, there, and everywhere. We've seen it. The TV is dripping in it.

What makes the NFL isn't just the elevated talent pool. It's the tradition and lineage we hunger for. We tune in to a random Colts-Chargers game, and we don't just see the game at hand. We know what that is, a matchup of a storied franchise of Unitas and Bert Jones and Peyton Manning that went through dark times through the 80s and 90s and got hammered for selecting Trev Alberts in the draft years after upsetting the Cowboys in Super Bowl V........against a team once known for Air Coryell and Chuck Muncie and John Hadl and letting Drew Brees walk when Philip Rivers was drafted. We see all of those teams, not just today's rosters.

The NFL is the NFL. It needs to remember how much that means. Too much tinkering is hurting the product, and not insignificantly. It's faltering.

Simple things, like these stupid "Color Rush" jerseys are ruining the immersion of watching a game. Soon, we'll be slammed in the face with pink for breast cancer awareness, followed by military day, followed by whatever else they invent in their minds to make money. Every weekend seems to have a different clothing theme to make the simple-minded rush out to spend money they don't have on things they'll wish they never bought. Never mind us.

Rumors still abound about a team in London, perhaps even Mexico, Canada, and Japan. It's a dream that none of us have, just a few suits in a conference room who have a disturbing indifference and lack of understanding.

Kickoffs are vanishing. Rules are under a constant flux with complicated catch rules, botched replays, and vague interpretations of ambiguity. The concussion protocol that makes no medical sense whatsoever. The players are at fault, too, with a constant stream of off-field incidents and violations, capped with this year's new rage, the Anthem protest. It's not a job anymore, it's a "platform".

Why can't it just be about NFL football again?

Then there's this oversaturation of Fantasy Football that not only clutters the TV screen, but seems to be affecting rules decisions by the NFL, which seems obsessed with making the 60+ point game the new normal. Apparently, kids and casuals don't stick around for a 17-13 game, so we have to get rid of those. Make it like Madden. Yuck.

The NFL needs to re-learn its sweet spot. Casual fans come and go. Nascar got huge in the 90s, and massive tracks with 200,000 seats were built. Now, those tracks sit largely empty on race day. The NFL should learn from such examples.

Note to the league: Cater to us, the longtime fans who know your league and it's heritage. Trust us to pass it on to our kids the way it was passed on to us. Your game and your league was tremendous just a few short years ago.

Stop trying to create and cram half-baked ideas down the throats of your next generation with tricked up uniforms, rules, graphics, themes, and other meaningless ideas that aren't improving the root of your product. Innovation is good, but think it through more and respect the fabric and history of your great game.

It's good to grow, so long as you remember who you are.

Was just having this same talk with my Dad.....they are killing the Golden Goose.....they are so obsessed with growth they are alienating their oldest fans.......I love your line of trusting us to hand down the love of the game, but the real game not some dumbed-down PC version

My biggest peeves:
-Lawyer ball......too many flags and challenges....there is no spontaneity.....everyone looks for the flag or challenge
-Rule changes.........taking away Kickoffs.....babying QBs and WRs...personal foul ejections
-Social Justice Warriors- everything is a cause trying to use the NFL's popularity...we watch sports to get away.......cancer unis, anthem protests, now the female Rooney Rule turn people off
-Saturation.....Thurs night games stink...quality and match-ups are weak...players hate it....London games are dumb
 

haleyrules

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No. Messed with the fabric of the game. Letting him in would tempt others to do the same.

There are ways to acknowledge him without inducting him.
Too harsh. But, understandable. The world has changed. Pete is deserving. I can forgive him and him alone. Too big a part of baseball history and lore.
 

erod

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Too harsh. But, understandable. The world has changed. Pete is deserving. I can forgive him and him alone. Too big a part of baseball history and lore.

Deserving, yes. Forgiving, sure. But you can be the smartest cat in the country, and not be qualified for president if you commit treason.

(Probably not the best analogy these days.)
 

haleyrules

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Abso-freaking-lutely, Haley.

Hard nosed, blood, sweat, and dirt player who beat Ty Cobb's all time hits record. A sure fire record that will never be touched. Betting on baseball (when he was a manager, not a player) did nothing to get him those hits.

He never bet on his team to lose, and Giamatti had a vendetta against him and wanted to make a name for himself. The league already allows him to participate in MLB functions now, Manfred needs to do what's right,
You ain't kidding. Rose, for all his flaws, is still an American Icon. He should symbolise what has always made the United States great. The second chance heck the 3rd and 4th chance. This is coming from a man that is not American. Americans should be proud of Pete Roses's courage and toughness.
 

haleyrules

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Deserving, yes. Forgiving, sure. But you can be the smartest cat in the country, and not be qualified for president if you commit treason.

(Probably not the best analogy these days.)
lol. We can kick this around. You are not wrong in your thinking. Rose, belongs as much or more than many, many others. I always liked him. In the very end, down the road, he will be included. There is no avoiding it. That is both fair and just. He has paid his fine.
 

Nightman

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You ain't kidding. Rose, for all his flaws, is still an American Icon. He should symbolise what has always made the United States great. The second chance heck the 3rd and 4th chance. This is coming from a man that is not American. Americans should be proud of Pete Roses's courage and toughness.
The Hall of Fame is sacred imo........ not being enshrined is a fair punishment for cheating the game....either thru gambling or PEDs......you can put a display in the Hall that says Pete is the Hit King but also explains why he never gets enshrined
 

haleyrules

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The Hall of Fame is sacred imo........ not being enshrined is a fair punishment for cheating the game....either thru gambling or PEDs......you can put a display in the Hall that says Pete is the Hit King but also explains why he never gets enshrined
I am not saying you are wrong...far from it. Rose was, maybe, the exception.to normal thinking. If, l had a vote l would give him and only him the benefit of the historic doubt. Only that.
 

paladin

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The Hall of Fame is sacred imo........ not being enshrined is a fair punishment for cheating the game....either thru gambling or PEDs......you can put a display in the Hall that says Pete is the Hit King but also explains why he never gets enshrined

Completely agree.
He knew the punishment when he was committing the crime... repeatedly.
Then lied to us......repeatedly
He decided to be truthful only when it served his purpose.

But I'm admitted biased, Ray Fosse was one of my favs.


Cheers
 

jazzcat22

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No. Messed with the fabric of the game. Letting him in would tempt others to do the same.

There are ways to acknowledge him without inducting him.

Disagree. No way by letting Pete in the HOF will let others do the same.
Hell, I bet some are doing it now. But learned how to hide it. Or having others place the bets.
You know they are.

By not inducting Pete make the MLB and HOF a sham IMO. and I will never change my mind until a wrong is righted.
 
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